Would you flip this property or rent it out?

Would you flip this property or rent it out?

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes

Hello Atlanta / Decatur folks.  So I am closing on the purchase of my first property tomorrow.  After considering this property for weeks I still can't decide whether to 

A. flip the property straightaway

B. rent the property out

C. fix the property up and then rent it out. 

Before others say this, I realize that this decision depends a great deal on my particular circumstances and goals.  I'd just like to hear what other experienced investors on this site would do with the same property in the same neighborhood and your reasons why.

Here are some things to consider:

- The address is 2854 McAfee Road, Decatur, GA, 30032  (http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2854-Mcafee-Rd-D...)

- I am purchasing the property for $48,000

- The property needs a new water heater, AC compressor, roof (in the near future), and work to the kitchen, bathroom, and deck

- The property is located on a main street / a Marta bus route

- FHA buyers would not be able to make offers until the middle of June

- The property is already fairly rent-ready

- The property is on a long lot that connects to the anterior street, which could be subdivided into two reasonably sized lots if I go through the process of rezoning it (jumping through beuracratic hoops and contending with the local community)

- I have already negotiated down some of the contracting costs

- I am paying cash 

- Taxes and insurance favor buying and holding

- Flipping is a faster process, which would allow me to try both strategies (next property) sooner

Again, I realize in many ways in comes down to my own circumstances, but if you would humor me I'd be interested in hearing what others here, particularly those familiar with this local market and area, would do.  

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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y

I am a buy and hold person.  it is get rich slowly, not get rich quick.  I so not have the time to do flips at this point in time.  If you get rental income started coming in you will be able to use it on your borrowing next year.  You also can refinance it later if you bought for cash and use the money from the refinance to buy another property.  Just make sure it still cash flows after you do the refinance or you may as well flip it.

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  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    I am a buy and hold person.  it is get rich slowly, not get rich quick.  I so not have the time to do flips at this point in time.  If you get rental income started coming in you will be able to use it on your borrowing next year.  You also can refinance it later if you bought for cash and use the money from the refinance to buy another property.  Just make sure it still cash flows after you do the refinance or you may as well flip it.

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y

    Thanks @Jerry W.  One issue I am having is that since I am currently between employment, I am having a lot of difficulty finding financing at good rates.  To a loan officer does rental income count as income in the same way as employment income does?

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    It is different in that you need to have for about a year before they will start counting it as regular income.  That is why it is good to have it coming in awhile before you can use it and have them consider it.

  • Investor · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 79 posts · 72 votes
    10y

    I prefer buy and hold myself BUT, to me, there are red flags. Sounds as if this property is far from ideal.  The pictures look nice I like the brick but  "The property needs a new water heater, AC compressor, roof (in the near future), and work to the kitchen, bathroom, and deck"

    Those all cost money and unless you are well capitalized could devour your whole bankroll. Secondly, I am not a wild fan of this area because as Zillow is showing you the schools are sub-standard. Third, if you rent the place out with all these problems hanging over your head they will surface at an inopportune time and now you will have renters not happy that their is no hot water and all the issues that could arise. (I am not paying the rent until XYZ) or some such....  

    My game-plan has always been to buy. Rehab completely, then rent. Later, if necessary I cash out refinance on a higher appraisal basis (since I rehabbed) That way, its easier and faster to address all issues before a tenant moves in plus I have piece of mind that everything is in good shape.
    If you decide to keep it and rent it out: I'd make sure to do at least the hot water heater, and that the deck was 100% you do not want anyone going without hot water or getting hurt.  

    I don't know how great the tenants would be there but if it were me, I would probably not do much at all flip that one it has good photos. 

    That's my two cents.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 16 votes
    10y

    With my experience in that area, I would do the water heater, AC, repair the deck and rent!  But if you are going to gut the kitchen and bath then go ahead and flip it.  But from the kitchen and bath pictures, they are comparable to all my rentals.  And I have never had a problem renting them.  Tenants in that area are not willing to pay the extra rent for granite countertops and jacuzzi tubs.  Keep it simple!  

  • Wholesaler · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    For that area, unless you plan on being a landlord who doesn't mind headaches, I'd prehab and sell to an experienced buy and hold buyer. You can handle the water heater, deck issue, and any other small items like maybe fresh paint then sell to someone for a quick profit who already rents out in that area. Or just gut kitchens and baths and replace with simple finishes. You may find some simple finishes cheap at Habitat for Humanity RE Store for example and use reasonable contractors by getting more than one estimate... Once done flip for an even higher profit then buy you a rental in an area where tenants won't mind paying extra rent just because of area, with better schools, shopping, growth, etc... I think Tom T. gave you the best advice...

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Tom T.:

    I prefer buy and hold myself BUT, to me, there are red flags. Sounds as if this property is far from ideal.  The pictures look nice I like the brick but  "The property needs a new water heater, AC compressor, roof (in the near future), and work to the kitchen, bathroom, and deck"

    Those all cost money and unless you are well capitalized could devour your whole bankroll. Secondly, I am not a wild fan of this area because as Zillow is showing you the schools are sub-standard. Third, if you rent the place out with all these problems hanging over your head they will surface at an inopportune time and now you will have renters not happy that their is no hot water and all the issues that could arise. (I am not paying the rent until XYZ) or some such....  

    My game-plan has always been to buy. Rehab completely, then rent. Later, if necessary I cash out refinance on a higher appraisal basis (since I rehabbed) That way, its easier and faster to address all issues before a tenant moves in plus I have piece of mind that everything is in good shape.
    If you decide to keep it and rent it out: I'd make sure to do at least the hot water heater, and that the deck was 100% you do not want anyone going without hot water or getting hurt.  

    I don't know how great the tenants would be there but if it were me, I would probably not do much at all flip that one it has good photos. 

    That's my two cents.

     Thank you Tom.  Yes the water heater, AC unit, and roof would cost money - I would estimate about 8,000 total for those things.  The kitchen and bathroom are in good enough condition to rent in that area, but I will plan to make them nicer if I do go ahead and flip it.  Considering these things do you think I am starting at a bad price?

    Thanks.  

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Torrey Maning:

    For that area, unless you plan on being a landlord who doesn't mind headaches, I'd prehab and sell to an experienced buy and hold buyer. You can handle the water heater, deck issue, and any other small items like maybe fresh paint then sell to someone for a quick profit who already rents out in that area. Or just gut kitchens and baths and replace with simple finishes. You may find some simple finishes cheap at Habitat for Humanity RE Store for example and use reasonable contractors by getting more than one estimate... Once done flip for an even higher profit then buy you a rental in an area where tenants won't mind paying extra rent just because of area, with better schools, shopping, growth, etc... I think Tom T. gave you the best advice...

     Thank you Torrey.  Great tip about the Habitat for Humanity.  What exactly are you referring to by "finishes"?

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y

    I should have added I guess that the rehab costs (roof, deck, floors (refinishing), kitchen (cabinets/counter/floor), bathroom (tile), deck, AC unit, water heater, some minor modifications to the interior space, complete painting on interior and exterior, new front and back doors, some landscaping) would cost about $40,000, which would put me all in around $90,000.  

    If you would rent the property, how much would you expect the rents to be?  

    If you would flip it, what would you estimate the ARV to be?

    Thanks!

  • Wholesaler · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    I mean light fixtures, ceiling fans, range hoods, knobs, toilets, mirrors, etc... They sell all kinds of stuff for rehabs... As far as ARV you should have done that by comping it out... What do your recently sold comps look like? You should know this before you buy for one of your exit strategies... If you rehab all in at $90k and comps read $100k it's not worth the sweat... But if comps read maybe $130-$150k then you got yourself a deal as long as you can sell it fast...

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Torrey Maning:

    I mean light fixtures, ceiling fans, range hoods, knobs, toilets, mirrors, etc... They sell all kinds of stuff for rehabs... As far as ARV you should have done that by comping it out... What do your recently sold comps look like? You should know this before you buy for one of your exit strategies... If you rehab all in at $90k and comps read $100k it's not worth the sweat... But if comps read maybe $130-$150k then you got yourself a deal as long as you can sell it fast...

    Thanks Torrey. I did comp it out already and feel a very rough ARV would be $120,000. That said, I'm not confident in this process yet so I value the estimates by more experienced investors in the area.

  • Investor · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 79 posts · 72 votes
    10y

    @Nick Brubaker  I hope you did all this homework before you agreed to make the purchase.

    Rents: my guess is 750-800 https://www.rentometer.com/results/z0UU3-y-Bh8
    Honestly, after looking at at least the Zillow comps... Which are not always super accurate...
    Homes for sale (seems to be plenty) and homes that sold (don't seem to be selling at a whole lot more than you paid, with a couple of exceptions)..  Now, it could be that all the homes that are for sale need work and the homes that did sell for a decent amount more had all nice finishes and were completely redone....  That, I don't know without more research. I would also suggest you drive through the neighborhood if you have not already at various times of the day and night to make sure the neighborhood is one you want to spend money in. (again, I hope you did that before deciding to make a purchase)..  To me the numbers look pretty tight. - You may be forced into land lordship if you can't flip it and have to wait a year or two for appreciation...  I am sure it will cash flow okay..  Providing the renters pay and don't tear stuff up. If you have not been a land lord before you may want to turn that over to a professional company so you get a feel for it. Seasoned bad tenants can eat up a rookie landlord unless you are tough but fair. Lastly, if you decide to go landlord route on your own, without a management company get a good handle on what the process is for eviction so you know the rules going in and how long that might take in this county. 
    If it were me, I would probably fix the small things and see if I could flip it quickly. I always look to invest in places where the schools are the best. That's my strategy though.
    If the AC works, I would not replace it in this case. If it does not... Well, you probably should fix it that adds significant value. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 44 posts · 9 votes
    10y

    Interesting! I am a renter in that area and know it very well....actually, this area and E. Lake/Kirkwood are the reasons I want to get into REI. I vote for rehab and sell!

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Crawford:

    Interesting! I am a renter in that area and know it very well....actually, this area and E. Lake/Kirkwood are the reasons I want to get into REI. I vote for rehab and sell!

    Thanks Anthony.  Can I ask why you would favor rehab and sell?

  • Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 564 posts · 425 votes
    10y

    @Nick Brubaker I don't know the area, but if the ARV makes it worthwhile, I would sever the back of the lot off, sell it, renovate and sell the house.

    For the severance, give your local municipality a call and speak to a planner.

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Luc Boiron:

    @Nick Brubaker I don't know the area, but if the ARV makes it worthwhile, I would sever the back of the lot off, sell it, renovate and sell the house.

    For the severance, give your local municipality a call and speak to a planner.

     Thanks Luc.  Yeah, that would probably mean renting it out for a while and taking on the rezoning process.  

  • Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 564 posts · 425 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:
    Originally posted by @Luc Boiron:

    @Nick Brubaker I don't know the area, but if the ARV makes it worthwhile, I would sever the back of the lot off, sell it, renovate and sell the house.

    For the severance, give your local municipality a call and speak to a planner.

     Thanks Luc.  Yeah, that would probably mean renting it out for a while and taking on the rezoning process.  

     How much is a severed lot worth, and how much would the severance cost?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 44 posts · 9 votes
    10y

    @Nick Brubaker just my personal knowledge of the area

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    Say after all costs you are in at 60k. You rent at 750/month. If about half your rent goes to expenses you have a NOI of 375/month = 4500/year. Cap rate = 7.5%

    Also, you could have roofing done while a tenant is renting shouldn't be too big of a deal. 

  • Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2012 · 131 posts · 83 votes
    10y

    I know this area well due to most my rentals being located right around that house.

    This is a very good rental area.  That house will rent for $850-$950.  I like to be all in around 45k though.  Pick your tenants carefully as you will have a good amount apply.  

    I would hold and rent the house out.  The ones that have been flipped for 100-120k in that area have been gutted and redone. You'd need to put 30-40k more in that house to flip.  

    I would buy in that area any day of the week as long as the price is right.  Enjoy!

  • Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    10y

    Buy and Hold.  Accumulate all the properties you can and hold tight.  My fear is to be 50, 60, 70 years old talking about all the properties I use to own.  

    Owning property makes you much more interesting.


    Franklin

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y

    Haha.. thanks @Franklin Romine

  • Real Estate Broker · Rock Springs, WY · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 43 votes
    10y

    @Nick Brubaker  

    I am a buy and hold person. We're not in an area where home values lose and gain value enough (even in horrible condition) to merit flipping so we stick with rentals.  Mortgage brokers include rental income as income once you have had it on your tax return for one full year so they can see the full reporting of what you are actually claiming to make.  Some mortgage brokers include that income after one full tax year, others want two years.  I've been told it depends on your history as a landlord, other properties, etc.  These would be great questions for a mortgage broker to chime in on as I am just repeating what has been told to me by my broker.  We bought a property in December of 2015 and one in May of 2015. Because it hadn't shown up on a tax return, the mortgage on the home we bought in May was counted in our debt to income ratio as debt and they wouldn't consider the income we made on the rental in the ratio.  However, we were obviously still able to use the money we had made toward the down payment of the new property.  For us this wasn't a huge detriment because we also have fulltime jobs But if you don't right now, that is something to consider. Even if you rent it for now, you can always sell later if you decide you need the capital.  

  • Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 53 votes
    10y

    Great points @Emily Lopez.  Thanks for chiming in!

  • Investor · Coeur d'Alene, ID · Member since 2016 · 551 posts · 218 votes
    10y

    I hope you did your homework on this "deal" before you signed all the contingencies!! You should ultimately have your plan well ahead of closing with back up exit plans, anything else and you start running the risk of things going badly, quickly.

    Most big banks want you to be a "land lord" which requires minimum 2 years experience. Each bank or lender has different criteria but mostly it's 2 years. You need to ask your lender.

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