Seller does not know if he has a mortgage on property.

Flipper/Rehabber · Conyers, GA · Member since 2015 · 182 posts · 26 votes

Seller has a property he is trying to sell and does not know IF there is a morgage on the property. His son owns it but unable to talk. Dad has power of attorney to do EVERYTHING on the sons behalf, but not sure of ANYTHING about the house. He thinks it's paid off. Any advice would be great

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

@Account Closed could be a private mortgage not showing up on credit report.

but really this is two issues

1. is their a recorded Deed to Secure debt or not..

2. will this POA be adequate to convey title and will a title insurance company insure it.

this is what needs to be addressed and resolved if the OP is going to buy this or flip it right.

So in my mind I would simply open an escrow pay a few hundred bucks and get a preliminary title report and title commitment.

it will show any and all Liens that need to be addressed and it will also let you know who is in title and who needs to sign to convey title at that point you present this POA and its up to the title company to decide if its good enough.

now in some cases they will want their escrow officer or another third party to go to hospital or were ever the owner is living to verify they are real and this is the intentions.

I know we have to do this with extreme elderly that don't understand or those that do not speak english. usually thou they can come to the title company personally

everything else is just supposition and trying to conduct real estate without spending a dime LOL

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Michelle B.
Investor · Lebanon, OH · Member since 2016 · 144 posts · 87 votes
9y
Troy Durrette Did you look at the county recorders website? In the areas I invest in I can see any and all mortgages / liens recorded on a property from the comfort of my couch. If the mortgage is old, you would have to guesstimate the remaining balance. However, in your case, at least you would be able to find who the mortgage company is and have your seller contact them for details. You could probably pay a title company to do the work and find out as well. But that seems like a waste of money to me. Everything is public record. Good luck! Michelle
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Jessica Zolotorofe
Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
9y
The father has power of attorney for a son he doesn't talk to? More important than whether there is a mortgage would probably be whether the father's POA is even valid. That sounds a little sketchy to me. I agree, check the public records initially, most counties are online now, and if there is a mortgage. I would put together a request for payoff letter and have the father sign it, although without even know IF there is a mortgage, pretty unlikely he has account numbers. Maybe he can use his son's social to get a payoff. If you do decide to proceed (with caution), you absolutely need title insurance (assuming any title company would even insure given the circumstances) in case the son comes back and says he never approved this sale. To be honest, this makes no sense. Especially if he intends to sell at a discount. Be careful you are not getting scammed. Close through an attorney or title company only once an insurable deed is in their hands, I would NOT send money directly to this guy or anyone else.
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Troy Durrette
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Conyers, GA · Member since 2015 · 182 posts · 26 votes
9y
Son has medical issues, and unable to communicate from time to time, and his memory is not all there. They don't know IF, or WHO has the mortgage. Father seems to be stand up guy and REALLY only concerned with his son. He knows nothing about real estate and asking for my help in selling/buying the property. He's planning to have to care for his kid with whatever he ends up with.
@Jessica Zolotorofe
@Michelle B. Thanks, I have check online, but came up short on info. I'm thinking going to courthouse to KINDA do a title search may be worth the time? Is there a short title search?
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Michelle B.
Investor · Lebanon, OH · Member since 2016 · 144 posts · 87 votes
9y
Jessica Zolotorofe He said unable to talk not won't talk. If I became medically incapacitated today, my parents would have no idea who my mortgage company was or what my balance was. This doesn't sound strange to me at all. Troy Durrette I'm surprised you couldn't find it online. I don't know much about areas outside of my own county. But, within my county, I can do a property search, locate the property and then access the recorded data. It literally takes me a few seconds to find. You could call the county office on Monday and inquire. You could also just stop by and chat with someone. Do you have a relationship with a title company? My title company would probably do this work for free for me.
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Jessica Zolotorofe
Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
9y
If my child became incapacitated, first thing I would do is get his finances in order, check his mail ocassionally for a mortgage statement to be sure I was taking care of his affairs? Not let his home go into foreclosure, maybe? I think it is definitely weird.
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Michaela G.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
He should look at the bank statement and see if there's an automatic deduction. Or the son should have mail from a mortgage company, especially in January, when he should get a form for last year's interest. A previous tax return would also show, if there's mortgage interest. If he had an accountant/CPA do it, then he might talk to him/her to look at last year's return.
In which county is the property? In fulton I love to go to the courthouse and do my own title search. it's so easy to go through the records, whether computer or books. And the more difficult it is for the father to do, the more likely you might be able to do a deal.
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Jessica Zolotorofe
Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
9y
Troy Durrette How did he find you to ask you to help him sell it?
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Account Closed
Johnson City, TN · Member since 2014 · 586 posts · 705 votes
9y
Go to the courthouse and spend a few minutes. They have all the answers.
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Dave Van HornPro Member
Fund Manager · Wayne, PA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
You can check public records, often online to see mortgage history or you can just run a lien report from a company like Realquest
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Troy Durrette
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Conyers, GA · Member since 2015 · 182 posts · 26 votes
9y
@Michaela G.
@Jessica Zolotorofe
This seems very delicate for the dad and honestly, I think he can care less about the property. He was making arrangements to break into sons house and gather important documents. I never thought of taxes, and statements though. Thanks I'm trying NOT to lean on dad to heavy because he seems ready to fall apart. The son and has a mutual friend, so when it came to his house, I was called. I'm going to do more searching.
@Account Closed I think in the end thats my best chance.
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Chinmay J.
Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
9y
For all of those who are advocating that they look at the bank statement, lets take a step back. Which bank statement should the dad look at? I personally don't get any bank statement at home, as I am signed up for e-statements. Its 2017 people; not 1987. The son can't communicate with anyone. So how is the dad going to figure out where to start. While it doesn't hurt to ask the dad to take a look at one (provided one is sent to the house), for someone who is saying that they DON'T KNOW, would have already exhausted that possibility as long as they really intend to sell the place.
Given the fact that they are still living in the house leads to only two possibilities. A). Either the mortgage is paid off or B). The payments are current. The son being disabled and all could be getting payment through government, and that could be enough to satisfy the mortgage if its the latter case, so there is no adverse action from the lender.
@Troy Durrette - I would start with title company and see if they can help you out with a quick title search to see all the outstanding liens/mortgages on the property. Good luck.
All that being said, it does seem a little sketchy. How the hell you don't know if your own damn house is paid for or not.
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Jessica Zolotorofe
Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
9y
He was going to break in?? He couldn't find his son's keys? You dont think this all sounds slightly off? Did the son have a car or anything else that would have to be paid for? Wouldn't the father want to take care of his business? He knew his son wasn't going to be able to handle his affairs enough in advance to get a POA but not keys to his house? He hasn't checked his son's mail? But he called his friend to call you to help him sell the house? My brother passed away and my parents were absolutely distraught, but they took care of his business, found his bank accounts, his car, etc. I don't know... maybe I'm a sceptic, but it really just doesn't sound right to me.
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Jessica Zolotorofe
Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
9y
if he was handicapped, maybe he didn't get online statements? or if he did, call his email provider, explain to them and send them a copy of the POA. Does he not have his son's ssn? Between a ssn and a power of attorney, he has all of the powers of the son. Did he call the local banks and the couple big ones? No bank debit card in his wallet? Wouldn't you take care of those types of things before worrying about the house? He needs the money from the house for care costs, but seemingly hasn't checked for bank accounts that could have money in them? Maybe that's all true... strange, but could be true, just be very careful.
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Michelle B.
Investor · Lebanon, OH · Member since 2016 · 144 posts · 87 votes
9y
IMO - this is all being blown out of proportion. As someone else said - this is 2017 - who still gets paper statements? I certainly don't and haven't in a very long time. Also - did someone say they were still living in the property? I might have missed it but didn't see where the OP indicated anyone was still in the property. Again - if something happened to myself - my parents would have no idea about any of my finances, including my mortgage. Nor would they have keys to my house. And I am close with my parents - talk to them nearly every day. This doesn't seem strange to me at all. Just stop by the county office and figure out who (if anyone) is the lien holder and go from there.
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Elena Jobson
Escrow Officer · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 64 posts · 27 votes
9y
I would recommend calling a local title company and asking them to run an O and E (ownership and encumbrance report) this will cost you 5 bucks but it will show any liens and encumbrances against the property, how title is vested etc.
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Chinmay J.
Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
9y
@Michelle B. - I said both the statements, and perhaps "living" is not the best choice of words. Strike # 1. So let me rephrase it. Given the fact that they still own the property and bank has not started the foreclosure process......
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Account Closed
Johnson City, TN · Member since 2014 · 586 posts · 705 votes
9y
If the father has a POA he can request a credit report. And that will show any mortgages and other loans as well as inquiries by banks for account openings. This isn't rocket science
1 Reply
Chinmay J.
Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
9y
@Account Closed - That would do it. Smart way to go about.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y
@Account Closed could be a private mortgage not showing up on credit report.
but really this is two issues
1. is their a recorded Deed to Secure debt or not..
2. will this POA be adequate to convey title and will a title insurance company insure it.
this is what needs to be addressed and resolved if the OP is going to buy this or flip it right.
So in my mind I would simply open an escrow pay a few hundred bucks and get a preliminary title report and title commitment.
it will show any and all Liens that need to be addressed and it will also let you know who is in title and who needs to sign to convey title at that point you present this POA and its up to the title company to decide if its good enough.
now in some cases they will want their escrow officer or another third party to go to hospital or were ever the owner is living to verify they are real and this is the intentions.
I know we have to do this with extreme elderly that don't understand or those that do not speak english. usually thou they can come to the title company personally
everything else is just supposition and trying to conduct real estate without spending a dime LOL
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
2 Reply
Jack B.
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Yes, it could be a legitimate situation, but this also has the makings of a very good scam. I would run, not walk...There are other deals that don't have the strangeness...
1 Reply
Troy Durrette
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Conyers, GA · Member since 2015 · 182 posts · 26 votes
9y
@Chinmay J. Father is willing to do title search and even pay for it, I'll contact them tomorrow and get the ball rolling. Son is/was big on automation and ran his life online according to dad and friends. I was told he dumpped extra money into the house while he was of a sound mind. The story seems to get deeper and more personal but is above board.
@Jessica Zolotorofe Son has some type of mental/brain issue and have been living like a homeless person, running from anything that resembled normal. He was private and rarely let people into his life leaving NO REAL paper trail. Finance company for car and others have been looking for him. It's DEEP but thats for the family to deal with at this point.
@Michelle B. I'll try all of the options, they are GREAT ones, thanks eveyone, you opened my eyes to several ideas.
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James Barnhart
Rental Property Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2016 · 226 posts · 140 votes
9y
Did he look through the mail? Something seems strange here.
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Michael Johnson
Specialist · Marco Island, FL · Member since 2016 · 225 posts · 56 votes
9y
others can advise you on specifically what you asked cause I sure dont know.. I will just go ahead and remind you be the best problem solver you can.. Help dad out. I cant fathom burying a child. And I am one.
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Troy Durrette
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Conyers, GA · Member since 2015 · 182 posts · 26 votes
9y
@Michael Johnson I've gotten lots of advice and plenty of good ideas, Thanks. That tops it off and keeps things in perspective.
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Christopher Phillips
Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Troy Durrette
PM me the address and I'll see what I can find for you...
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