I BET THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO ANYONE ON HERE

Charlie M. · 2017-02-05T21:20:27-08:00

Hi everyone I come here for answers since the sellers agent does not have one for me . So I found a short sale property contacted the agent and tried to make an appointment for a viewing but unfortunately was unable to get a date because the owners wouldn't answer the agents calls , so I took matters into my own hands and took a trip to the property and knocked on the door and found out that the owner is out of town and will be back in a few weeks, note that the wife was the one who told me this .... I kindly explained that I was interested in the property and that could help them avoid foreclosure but she just told me that her husband is the own that is dealing with all matters related to the house . I waited until the date she told me he would be back and even told the agent that I advised them to answer the calls from the agent so that we can get the ball rolling. It has been over a week and the agent still hasn't received a call from them . I am not sure why they are not willing to show the house , is there a way to get out of a short sale ?are they just going to squat in the house ? can I just make a low balling offer and summit the reason to the bank ? any advice is appreciated btw this is my first post thanks

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

@John Anderson I actually told the agent I would be in the neighborhood the day of and may stop by, the agent was actually very happy that I stopped by and got that info on the husband because they were not answering any calls so I pretty much saved the agent a trip , and I was not trying to buy the house without the agent simply trying to get them to answer also this agent has actually helped me with questions on other properties and has made calls on my behalf to set up other viewings on other properties

0 Reply

Sam Shueh

Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Apologize and see if the agent really got a listing contract. Low ball is often brushed by the wayside. Ask the listing agent what price you have a chance.

During 2008-2010 I submitted several short sales as a realtor through same office we never heard from lenders even today. One came back they want $15K negotiation fee. My client declined. These homes got foreclosed and have changed hands several times. Short Sale is not a sure thing 30% successful.

1 Reply

Brent Coombs

Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

I appreciate the "I BET THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO ANYONE ON HERE" sense of humor - because of course, there are countless threads already on BP asking very much the same question/s*. Look 'em up! (There's >3,400 threads, search: "REO properties"). Welcome to BP...

* Interestingly, the answer to your "are they just going to squat in the house ?" question is often: Yes!

4 Reply

Denise Evans

JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker · Tuscaloosa, AL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

You have to guess what the problem is, and address it. It could be one of the following:

Borrower thinks it will owe taxes if there is a short sale. That is almost never the case, and there is a simple way, on the front end, to tell if they will owe taxes or not.
Borrower is stockpiling money for moving expenses. Most do not know they can get up to $3,000 at closing to help with moving expenses. A quick phone call to the lender, ahead of time, will reveal if this is available.
Borrower knows that foreclosures often take a long time to execute, and it's better to stay in the house until the bitter end, and then take $2,500 cash for keys after the foreclosure. Not everybody offers that, though, and they will not tell you in advance, for obvious reasons. This is a tough hidden objection to battle. You need to explain that they can get the $3,000 with a short sale (usually.) You should explain the consequences of staying the house until after foreclosure are:
- When they go 30/60/90/120 days past due on mortgage, their credit score declines. Then it starts to rehabilitate slowly if they have other credit they are handling responsibly. At some point in the future there will be a foreclosure, their credit score will crash again, and they will have to start all over rebuilding it.
- A credit score rehabilitates faster after a short sale than after a foreclosure. That is how the scoring algorithms work.
- They are in "time out" for federally insured mortgages for a longer time period after a foreclosure than after a short sale.
- In many states, a foreclosure results in a deficiency, for which the lender can sue. The lender rarely sues, but instead bundles and sells those deficiencies to collection agencies. Not only do the agencies have aggressive collection tactics, they sometimes file suit. Some are bought and sold several times over the years. Often, every time a deficiency is sold to another agency, it gets reported as a new bad debt, and crashes the score again. It takes a lot of time and trouble to straighten this out. Bad credit scores affect the ability to borrow money at all, what interest rates offered if someone can borrow, the ability to get insurance at all from some companies, the premium rate if they do get insurance (premiums can be as much as double normal, with bad credit) and the ability to get certain jobs. A poor credit score means most of the nicer rental communities or houses will not accept you.
- While it was at one time not a stigma to be in foreclosure, the economy has largely recovered, albeit not as robustly as pre-2008. Someone who is foreclosed upon now (a public event, because of the newspaper notices and the real estate agent yard signs afterwards) will be stigmatized by at least some of their friends, relatives and co-workers. A short sale is private.
- Waiting for a foreclosure to happen is very stressful. That affects relationships, plus job satisfaction and performance. If there are children in the home, constant stress in the home can change their entire futures. Stress causes physical problems such as depressed immune systems that can make one vulnerable to infections, flu, and even cancer. Our bodies get cancer cells all the time. A healthy immune system takes them out all the time. With a compromised immune system, the cancer cells can get a toehold, and then turn into something bad.

Good luck!

4 Reply

Christopher Phillips

Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Charlie M. Like the other poster mentioned, this is a common problem with non-responsive owners. You can't get in to see most shortsales in Queens and Long Island. They aren't interested in having people waltz through a bad time in their lives. And, there are some owners that are just trying to delay the foreclosure process as long as possible. There are also some agents that are notorious for having listings that are drive by only, no contact with agent. Offers submitted through an email address and only accepted offers get to move to next stage. Waste of time.

1 Reply

Joel OwensBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

9y

Getting the owners to agree on price and terms with the short sale is only half the battle. You have to get the senior lender, and junior lenders, and all lien holders to release their interests. They will all fight for every cent they can get taking a loss on the debt owed.

A lender or their asset manager for the loan would usually rather do a loan workout to get performing again rather than take a big loss with a short sale or foreclosure. Especially if their is mortgage insurance the loan servicer will need to demonstrate and document they did everything possible with workout options to get the loan performing again before going a short sale or foreclosure route otherwise mortgage insurance will try to deny the claim.

Owners typically will want to milk as mentioned every free month they can get. Some have lived in houses for years before moving with foreclosure. Many could care less when they are staying rent free on a mortgage they are not paying to get 3k to move when security deposit, advanced rent at new place, and moving costs in an expensive area could cost tens of thousands to move.

If sellers credit is trashed already they could care less about workout options. You could get through short sale almost ready to close and owner could file chapter 13 to delay things further. Owner early on if not in BK could be excited and motivated to do a short sale. Then when servicer asks for financials over and over again from home owner and keeps making the process difficult eventually the seller mid process gives up emotionally and the short sale fails.

With a short sale you have to figure out what kind of loan it is FHA,VA, conventional,etc. What options for a short sale vary by type.

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1 Reply

Joe Cantanzriti

Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 132 posts · 74 votes

9y

Charlie M. Unfortunately this is far too common of a scenario with short sales. Having a cooperative seller/owner is a huge piece of the short sale maze that really helps especially if this is first one. There are plenty of deals out there so keep on hitting them hard and you'll get one to stick. Plus that short sale house will be popping back up a foreclosure it seems here in the near future for you to grab it.

1 Reply

Mike CumbieBusiness Member

REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

I will go with the "Are they just going to squat" theory.

When the bank goes to foreclose they are often told to "try and short sell it". They get an agent and put in their hardship paperwork and that holds off foreclosure for a period of time while it is trying too be sold.

So if you are waiting for the bank to foreclose and it is getting close and you can throw an additional few months to a year of mortgage free living by having it for sale..... some choose to do that. If it actually gets sold it can end this whole gravy train in 60-90 days. If not by the time the bank gets back around to looking at it 9 months may have passed. Then they have to actually start the foreclosure process. You can fight to get in and submit a bunch of low ball offers etc, but the people who can let you in will most likely avoid you until the bank calls again and says "tough we are foreclosing on Wednesday".. then you will get a call to come have a look.

3 Reply

Joel OwensBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

9y

To Mike's point some will act like they are doing what the lender wants to initiate a short sale. Then the home owner will stall when an offer comes in.

Another downside to a short sale is until the tenants ( home owners if the case) move out you cannot see all the damage to the property like with a foreclosure that is vacant. Some banks will sell the property foreclosed with the holdover tenants in it. Again you will not be able to see total damage until they move and it could take awhile to get them out.

Yet another option is to try and buy the senior defaulted note for cash at a discount from the lender. Large lenders will generally not do this but some small ones might consider a one off loan sale. You then might be able to present other options to the owner of the property the servicer could not because of constraints with the loan servicing agreement.

Before considering buying a loan you would need an audit on the note making sure you have 100% true chain of proper transfer where the borrower could not try to claim somewhere along the line the mortgage was invalidated or not properly transferred etc.

Dave Van Horn on here has bought a lot of mortgage notes so might contact him if interested in that type of thing.

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0 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

thanks everyone for your advice , it turns out they are trying to hold on to the property to last second before foreclosure I guess they rather just stack as much money as possible before selling . you guys are great I have such much to learn thanks to all

0 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

9y

@Charlie M. day before the sale they will BK then they will file a suit against lender it could be years before anything happens all the while they live there for free.

don't you know big bad mean bank screwed them

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2 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Charlie M. day before the sale they will BK then they will file a suit against lender it could be years before anything happens all the while they live there for free.

don't you know big bad mean bank screwed them

right living for free and saving money until the next move , or they could sell right before and luck out get the 3k from the bank to help With the move out and get another home ....who really knows I ve been trying to see this home since December now I may have an appointment that may not get canceled like the other 4

0 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Joe Cantanzriti:

Charlie M. Unfortunately this is far too common of a scenario with short sales. Having a cooperative seller/owner is a huge piece of the short sale maze that really helps especially if this is first one. There are plenty of deals out there so keep on hitting them hard and you'll get one to stick. Plus that short sale house will be popping back up a foreclosure it seems here in the near future for you to grab it.

here in nyc is hard to get anything since its super competitive but thanks for the advice

0 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Sam Shueh:

Apologize and see if the agent really got a listing contract. Low ball is often brushed by the wayside. Ask the listing agent what price you have a chance.

During 2008-2010 I submitted several short sales as a realtor through same office we never heard from lenders even today. One came back they want $15K negotiation fee. My client declined. These homes got foreclosed and have changed hands several times. Short Sale is not a sure thing 30% successful.

funny I took your advice and asked the question to the agent and the agent said that they sighed a contract with the broker but they have to sign more papers to finalize it , not sure if its bs or the agent just didn't have under listing contract, week later I was contacted and told papers are sighed a the home is ready to be viewed , still waiting for an appointment that won't get cancelled

0 Reply

Antonia Rebrina

Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 4 votes

9y

Hire a buyer's agent. You will not lose but get help. They buyer's agents are paid by the seller so you won't have to pay for commission but rather get help. Use a realtor, it's to your advantage. You just have to find a good one to assist you with your purchase. Listing agents work for the seller so it will be against your best interest.

2 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Denise Evans:

You have to guess what the problem is, and address it. It could be one of the following:

Borrower thinks it will owe taxes if there is a short sale. That is almost never the case, and there is a simple way, on the front end, to tell if they will owe taxes or not.
Borrower is stockpiling money for moving expenses. Most do not know they can get up to $3,000 at closing to help with moving expenses. A quick phone call to the lender, ahead of time, will reveal if this is available.
Borrower knows that foreclosures often take a long time to execute, and it's better to stay in the house until the bitter end, and then take $2,500 cash for keys after the foreclosure. Not everybody offers that, though, and they will not tell you in advance, for obvious reasons. This is a tough hidden objection to battle. You need to explain that they can get the $3,000 with a short sale (usually.) You should explain the consequences of staying the house until after foreclosure are:
- When they go 30/60/90/120 days past due on mortgage, their credit score declines. Then it starts to rehabilitate slowly if they have other credit they are handling responsibly. At some point in the future there will be a foreclosure, their credit score will crash again, and they will have to start all over rebuilding it.
- A credit score rehabilitates faster after a short sale than after a foreclosure. That is how the scoring algorithms work.
- They are in "time out" for federally insured mortgages for a longer time period after a foreclosure than after a short sale.
- In many states, a foreclosure results in a deficiency, for which the lender can sue. The lender rarely sues, but instead bundles and sells those deficiencies to collection agencies. Not only do the agencies have aggressive collection tactics, they sometimes file suit. Some are bought and sold several times over the years. Often, every time a deficiency is sold to another agency, it gets reported as a new bad debt, and crashes the score again. It takes a lot of time and trouble to straighten this out. Bad credit scores affect the ability to borrow money at all, what interest rates offered if someone can borrow, the ability to get insurance at all from some companies, the premium rate if they do get insurance (premiums can be as much as double normal, with bad credit) and the ability to get certain jobs. A poor credit score means most of the nicer rental communities or houses will not accept you.
- While it was at one time not a stigma to be in foreclosure, the economy has largely recovered, albeit not as robustly as pre-2008. Someone who is foreclosed upon now (a public event, because of the newspaper notices and the real estate agent yard signs afterwards) will be stigmatized by at least some of their friends, relatives and co-workers. A short sale is private.
- Waiting for a foreclosure to happen is very stressful. That affects relationships, plus job satisfaction and performance. If there are children in the home, constant stress in the home can change their entire futures. Stress causes physical problems such as depressed immune systems that can make one vulnerable to infections, flu, and even cancer. Our bodies get cancer cells all the time. A healthy immune system takes them out all the time. With a compromised immune system, the cancer cells can get a toehold, and then turn into something bad.

Good luck!

thanks for the advice

0 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Christopher Phillips:

Charlie M.

Like the other poster mentioned, this is a common problem with non-responsive owners.

You can't get in to see most shortsales in Queens and Long Island.

They aren't interested in having people waltz through a bad time in their lives. And, there are some owners that are just trying to delay the foreclosure process as long as possible.

There are also some agents that are notorious for having listings that are drive by only, no contact with agent. Offers submitted through an email address and only accepted offers get to move to next stage. Waste of time.

right I guess I am learning the hard way , well the agent stated its under the broker contract so lets see , even if I get my offer accepted it could still take 6 months so they got a lot of time to get things in order for their next move

0 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

Getting the owners to agree on price and terms with the short sale is only half the battle. You have to get the senior lender, and junior lenders, and all lien holders to release their interests. They will all fight for every cent they can get taking a loss on the debt owed.

A lender or their asset manager for the loan would usually rather do a loan workout to get performing again rather than take a big loss with a short sale or foreclosure. Especially if their is mortgage insurance the loan servicer will need to demonstrate and document they did everything possible with workout options to get the loan performing again before going a short sale or foreclosure route otherwise mortgage insurance will try to deny the claim.

Owners typically will want to milk as mentioned every free month they can get. Some have lived in houses for years before moving with foreclosure. Many could care less when they are staying rent free on a mortgage they are not paying to get 3k to move when security deposit, advanced rent at new place, and moving costs in an expensive area could cost tens of thousands to move.

If sellers credit is trashed already they could care less about workout options. You could get through short sale almost ready to close and owner could file chapter 13 to delay things further. Owner early on if not in BK could be excited and motivated to do a short sale. Then when servicer asks for financials over and over again from home owner and keeps making the process difficult eventually the seller mid process gives up emotionally and the short sale fails.

With a short sale you have to figure out what kind of loan it is FHA,VA, conventional,etc. What options for a short sale vary by type.

I am sorry you lost me at the end .. the type of loan the owners have matter for what reason if they are losing their home and I am trying to bail the out ? sorry I am still learning but thanks for the advice

0 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Antonia Rebrina:

Hire a buyer's agent. You will not lose but get help. They buyer's agents are paid by the seller so you won't have to pay for commission but rather get help. Use a realtor, it's to your advantage. You just have to find a good one to assist you with your purchase. Listing agents work for the seller so it will be against your best interest.

I had a one the agent was no good still looking for a good one in New York , its hard since the good ones are looking for big clients not a small fry like me

0 Reply

Antonia Rebrina

Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 4 votes

9y

Research the agent. Find a new realtor that is new to the real estate. They have the drive and motivation to do their best.

0 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Mike Cumbie:

I will go with the "Are they just going to squat" theory.

When the bank goes to foreclose they are often told to "try and short sell it". They get an agent and put in their hardship paperwork and that holds off foreclosure for a period of time while it is trying too be sold.

So if you are waiting for the bank to foreclose and it is getting close and you can throw an additional few months to a year of mortgage free living by having it for sale..... some choose to do that. If it actually gets sold it can end this whole gravy train in 60-90 days. If not by the time the bank gets back around to looking at it 9 months may have passed. Then they have to actually start the foreclosure process. You can fight to get in and submit a bunch of low ball offers etc, but the people who can let you in will most likely avoid you until the bank calls again and says "tough we are foreclosing on Wednesday".. then you will get a call to come have a look.

I think this is whats happening now since the agent is contacting me and not the other way around

0 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Antonia Rebrina:

Research the agent. Find a new realtor that is new to the real estate. They have the drive and motivation to do their best.

will do thanks

0 Reply

Antonia Rebrina

Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 4 votes

9y

No worries. Good luck! I would love to assist you but I'm in FL. If you would like pm me on fb and I will find an agent for you in NY.

1 Reply

Christopher Phillips

Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

@Antonia Rebrina @Charlie M.

Enthusiasm isn't relevant in NY. Owners either want to show or they don't.

There are many agents, especially in Queens and Brooklyn, that have a lot of shortsale listings and you can rarely get inside to see them. Many times the listing agent won't return phone calls. The owners don't want to show, and the listing agent is just generating a lot of buyer leads.

Shortsales are often listed at dirt low prices to drive in offers. You'll often see $250,000 shortsales in an area that goes for $800,000.

There are also a lot of fake listings. They're posting on Zillow without an MLS number to drive in buyer leads. The person shown as the listing agent on the Zillow post is sometimes not an agent, but some broker's assistant.

1 Reply

Charlie M.

OP

New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 0 votes

9y

someone told me something similar today , its how some brokers develop a buyers list , they call it the bait and switch , I also heard Zillow bought trulia so they are all in the same. The other side to the shortsales is that they are not much of a bargain than a regular listing , thanks for the advice again , I am still searching for properties so lets see where I end up

0 Reply

I BET THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO ANYONE ON HERE

I BET THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO ANYONE ON HERE

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