Real estate agent claims worst offer in 25 years

Real estate agent claims worst offer in 25 years

Springfield, IL · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
Hey everyone, just recently got rejected on our offer my wife and I made on a duplex. Their listing agent stated "this is probably the worst offer I have received in 25 years". Was I really that off in my numbers or does this agent have some truth to his quote? Deal: original list price 164k , 1 month later 160k, 5 months later no adjustment in price. The property has been sitting for 5 months total. We had 4 comps in the neighborhood where duplexes sold from 112k-135k. Average price per square foot=57 on these comps. 3 of the 4 comps listed that they had a "new" or "newer" roof. Our duplex of interest had 1 side currently rented at $850 a month (or at least claimed at that price). We could never get any lease agreements or any price/expense statements on the property from the seller after multiple attempts. The current tenant has completely trashed his side, clothes/junk everywhere, Reeks of smoke (especially in the basement, has never cleaned a toilet in years it seems, and just renewed this supposed lease we never saw.) The rent for this whole property is supposedly is 850 and 875. We made our offer at 125k contingent on reviewing the lease agreement, property inspection, and including a new roof. (The roof is completely shot and has hail damage that our agent thinks their insurance could pay for). Is this the worst offer anyone has ever seen? Or is the real estate agent just being a jerk? Our unit had 2080sqft. 60 x 2080=124,800. Our realtor said you can't make an offer on multi family units based on price per sq ft and that the appraiser won't even do that. Is that true? Thanks for any wise counsel!
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Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y

Write her another offer at $99k ... records are made to be broken :)

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Curt DavisBusiness Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Offer seemed reasonable.

    Curt Davis - KAIZEN Realty538 Reviews
  • Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Jeff Ihnen - Ask your agent to ask the listing agent for a counter offer. A flat rejection and insult doesn't give you any information. The offer seems reasonable given the condition. I've also heard of people resubmitting the same offer in 2-3 months if the property is still available. The seller might have a change of heart.
  • Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Jeff Ihnen I don't know about the price, but price based on square foot only works for commercial space or apartments with uniform layouts. Doesn't work for residential spaces. Square footage doesn't include below grade spaces, unfinished spaces, nor amenities like pools.
  • Springfield, IL · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    9y
    My agent states that the only way you can compare similar duplexes is by comparing the rental income per property. How do I do that? This property has 850 + 875 = 1725 month in rent. Other similar properties are renting between 800-850 so pretty similar. Thanks for all your responses! You all are great and I really appreciate it!
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    Sounds like unrealistic seller and broker/agent has a headache from the listing.

    It's the sellers right to reject,accept,counter the offer. It's not the brokers or agents property.

    Do not get married to or fall in love with the idea of buying one particular property. Make offers for the area and type of property you want and see which seller is motivated to play ball. Nothing is worse than buying a mediocre property that breaks even or loses money and keeps you from buying better properties that come along. The lender says (sorry) for new properties because you have large bad debt on the books not performing . You want to show that spreadsheet that you have a knack for success and picking winners over time to make lenders feel good about doing business with you.

    In my office park next to me there is a unit FSBO. I bought mine off of this same owner a few years back. I would only buy for cash for 50,000,put 10,000 in and rent for 1,200 a month to a business. If the seller wants 70k or 80k I pass. The seller needs to sell more than I need to buy it............ : )

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    @Jeff Ihnen

    Congratulations on your prize-winning offer! 

    And no, I don't think the offer could possibly have made Worst Offer in 25 Years.

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 736 posts · 582 votes
    9y
    My response would have been "Don't blame me if you paid too much."
  • Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Jeff Ihnen

    You can't really compare properties based on rents.

    Two properties on the same block with the same layout could be charging different rents depending when they first took in those renters, section 8 vs cash, and which landlord has been making annual rent increases.

    Your agent should be generating a CMA based on recent sold properties.

    Asking for a roof replacement based on what someone's insurance will pay out is pretty bad advice. Just explain your price adjustment off of the list price based on the property condition.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 803 posts · 689 votes
    9y

    If this is the agents worst offer in 25 years he must only sell 1 house per year. Maybe clean it up a little and get rid of the new roof contingency. These people just want to sell and walk-away cleanly that sort of stuff makes to much work for the already unrealistic sellers. 

    Good luck

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    This says a lot more about the quality of the agent than it does about your offer.  And also likely why the home is still on the market.   That agent is not serving the seller well by responding to any potential buyer in that fashion, even if you offered $80K.  Your offer seems in line with what you say similar properties have sold for recently, so you've done your research and weren't just throwing random numbers out.  The agent could have instructed her sellers to just counter back full price if they were that insulted.  Maybe it wasn't explained clearly that their insurance might cover the cost of the roof and you'd give them a few days to see if that's a possibility?    

  • Springfield, IL · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    9y
    Thanks for all your advice, tips and encouragement. I appreciate you all!
  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    I only use rental income to determine value when making offers. The price I offer is based on gaining positive cash flow nothing more. It is a income investment property and as such is valued solely on income. If someone wishes to purchase it as a owner occupied property they may pay what ever they choose as in that case it is strictly an emotional purchase.

    Asking price is irrelevant to me. The agent is either a jerk or stupid and is not doing his client any favours.

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    Write her another offer at $99k ... records are made to be broken :)

  • Investor · Fort Walton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 568 posts · 966 votes
    9y

    @Jeff Ihnen The listing agent was being too dramatic. If this is the "worst" offer they got in 25 years they likely don't sell a lot of real estate! I would try to get your agent to at least make sure that the offer was presented to the seller and the listing agent just didn't bother to present because they were insulted with "their 25 year lowest offer". 

    If they don't play ball you could attempt to contact the seller directly. If it's been for sale for 5 months, then their listing agreement might expire soon (here, it is usually 6 months)

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    You offered 75% of the listing price - - ask for a counter offer.  Remind the agent of the DOM and last price reduction AND the current comps.  The listing agent has control for at  least 6-months, maybe a year so he has a clock ticking.  The agent knows the condition and that you will be smacking the price because of it.  The agent is just doing the best for his client.

    This is a duplex, so it will be appraised using the Economic Value - - 

    Annual GSI x GRM, typically 10 is the starting point, so FMV would be:

    (850+875) x 12mo is 20,700 GSI x 10 is $207k - - the appraisal will then add and subtract from there on condition issues. Comps in the area will also be used to sanity check the results and You quote comps at 112-135k so this must be a Class C area driving down the prices.

    TRUE; $$/sqft is interesting but not an appraisal metric.

    Rentals ARE evaluated by the rents they generate - - just watch how your lender does the evaluation.

  • Investor · Takoma Park, MD · Member since 2016 · 166 posts · 147 votes
    9y

    Perhaps include some documentation with your offer laying how you arrived at the number you are offering. Don't disparage things, just explain that it needs a new roof and partial rehab due to messy tenant. Those things have costs associated. There is no use arguing with the seller's agent. Just present the facts. We are seeing a lot more places on the market for values that suggest the seller or listing agent vacations on Fantasy Island.  If your numbers are solid, which I think they are, it is unlikely that anyone will offer much more than you did, and even more unlikely that they will be able to get financing.  So I agree. Wait a month, then resubmit your offer for $5K less than your previous one. Wait another month and drop it another $5K. 


  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    No. A duplex is residential real estate ... as such, it will be appraised via comparable sales, just like all other residential real estate ... that is how the banks do it, that is how appraisers do it. Jeff can make up any way to appraise stuff that he likes, as can anybody else, but that doesn't mean it is valid for transactions.

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 15 votes
    9y
    Stick to your numbers and like everyone else has pointed out, don't fall in love with the property if the seller and seller's agent have unreasonable expectations for price for the condition and location of the duplex. You never want to overpay for a property. Don't be discouraged! Keep chugging along!
  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    9y

    Run your numbers and be unemotionally comfortable with your offers based on them.  Some homes are not for sale even though they are listed for sale.

  • Springfield, IL · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    9y
    I should point out that the owner of the property is a company from California and I live in Springfield Illinois. I did find this easier to make an aggressive (although I feel it was justified) offer since I did not have much concern with offending the seller, even though I must have. My wife and I are brand new at this, so we are still learning how not to become emotionally attached to properties or concerned with offending sellers or listing agents. We may like to offer again in a couple of months, however, our current realtor seemed uncomfortable and reluctant to present our original offer because she wanted us to offer more.
  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    I only use rental income to determine value when making offers. The price I offer is based on gaining positive cash flow nothing more. It is a income investment property and as such is valued solely on income. If someone wishes to purchase it as a owner occupied property they may pay what ever they choose as in that case it is strictly an emotional purchase.

    Asking price is irrelevant to me. The agent is either a jerk or stupid and is not doing his client any favours.

    So if your return requirement on commercial multifamily is 10 CAP, then you should just go into a market where the market CAP rate is 12 and put in 10 CAP offers ... you will buy lots of property that meet your criteria, and since cash flow is all that matters I'm sure you'll do great.

  • Realtor · Smyrna, TN 37167 · Member since 2013 · 248 posts · 147 votes
    9y

    Yours may have been the only offer he's received in 25 years, don't worry about that.  I'm pretty sure I've made 'worse' offers.  The longer it stays on the market, the more attractive your offer may be, so revisit it if you don't find anything else in the meantime.  

    If your agent isn't used to working with investors, she may be uncomfortable resubmitting lowball offers - maybe she has an upper-end reputation she wants to maintain or overestimates the properties investment value.  Still, there's no reason to offer more than you are willing to.  

    On the other hand, if your agent has numbers to back up her recommended offer - which she should - then you should consider those carefully.  If she knows the market, she may be spot on about what it will sell for.  In either case, there's no harm in making another offer if you want.

  • Rick SantasierePro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Granby, CT · Member since 2015 · 694 posts · 317 votes
    9y
    Jeff Ihnen what I like best in your post what the fact that the agent actually responded with that answer!! Fantastic!! It never ceases to amaze me how poorly some real estate agents handle their emotions when it comes to real estate (that they don't even own, for that matter). A "Great" real estate agent would have responded with something like this: "Thank you Jeff for your offer; and thank you for taking the time to prepare it for us in a such an organized fashion" (I am guessing you included all your credentials; pre approval, 1st deposit, and all necessary disclosures, etc). "While we appreciate you taking the time to show, and provide us with this offer, at this he sellers are not willing to sell this home for that price. As a professional area realtor here is why": - Agent lists all reasons - comps, market, job growth, all the things that prove the place is worth closer to what they are asking If you would be so kind and provide us with your highest and best offer, it might be more in line with what our client is looking for. I will make the promise to present and try and get the seller to move a little, but at the price you offered, it just isn't feasible. Again, thank you for your offer. I look forward to your revised offer, and we truly hope to be able to put something together that meets everyone's needs in this transaction." Sincerely, Decent Listing Agent My $.02
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    Worst offer in 25 years? Based on the numbers and details you provided, your offer is not anywhere remotely close to worst offer ever, list agent is clearly a poor one based on this info. 75% of an overvalued ask price is well within reason based on this condition and days on market.

    On a side note, I love the suggestion of making another offer at $99k, bettervyet, have another investor do it giving listing agent a multiple worst offer in 25 years situation.

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jeff Ihnen:

    I should point out that the owner of the property is a company from California and I live in Springfield Illinois. I did find this easier to make an aggressive (although I feel it was justified) offer since I did not have much concern with offending the seller, even though I must have. My wife and I are brand new at this, so we are still learning how not to become emotionally attached to properties or concerned with offending sellers or listing agents.

    We may like to offer again in a couple of months, however, our current realtor seemed uncomfortable and reluctant to present our original offer because she wanted us to offer more.

    Damn Californians! Oh wait, never mind :)

    My guess is the owners are trying to apply CA prices to their out of state property, and the listing agent was all too happy to play along and tell them what they wanted to hear in order to secure the listing, and now them chickens is comin' home to roost. I swear people must think that Californians are idiots, and you know what, with most out of state CA investors, I'd have to tend to agree.

    Keep after it, and do continue to re-submit your offer periodically (every month) ... I would not raise the offer price based on the numbers you provided, though (in fact, I already told you what I would've offered). Don't worry about making your realtor uncomfortable ... of course she wanted you to offer more, that increases her commissions and odds of closing it, but it is your offer not hers and she works for you. If she doesn't want to submit your offers, there are plenty others that will ...

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