Raw Land investing with Programs (landacademy.com vs land geek)
Flipper/Rehabber · Bismarck, ND · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 18 votes
Raw Land investing with Programs (landacademy.com vs land geek)
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes@Mike H. should have called me I grew up in the land business.. this stuff is old as the hills.
and not much too it.. write letters to buy land in areas that were subdivided years ago and bought as recreational land ( see movie Glenn Garry Glenn Ross ) then advertise it for sale with LOW down owner carry.. that's the game.. expect 30 to 50% defaults and rinse repeat.
Now my dad when he did it bought most of his at tax sales 300 to 500 parcels at a sale.. then would have 3 day event and sell them all for cash.. he would buy them for say 50 to 200 a parcel and sell them for 795 to 1295 a parcel.. but he did volume and that was in the 60's and early 70s.. I worked the rooms with him as his assistant..
If you can scale and there are a few folks that have in the US it can be a big business other wise its just like any other wholesaling guru stuff.. they make the money selling you the little course.. which is simply not that complicated..
52 Replies
- Specialist · Leander, TX · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 38 votes9yJoe Snustad I'm at a similar stage as you are. Since there are no replies yet I was wondering if you received any feedback (good or bad) yet via PM?
- Flipper/Rehabber · Bismarck, ND · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 18 votes9y
PM'd you. I ended up going with the land academy program.
- Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 1 vote9y
Hi, Joe. I was considering these two programs myself a few months ago. How has your experience been with the Land Academy?
- Flipper/Rehabber · Bismarck, ND · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 18 votes9y
So I'm a little slow to get up and going. I have a list of properties I want to mail but I'm just finishing up my last couple details with my mailing address and bank information before I send my mailer out. I'm happy with the program and all the help so far. I will let you know after my first mailer is complete. Sounds like Jack and Jill have some awesome stuff coming down the pipeline soon that will really make this process easy and efficient.
- Half Moon Bay, CA · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 1 vote9y
@Joe Snustad....any leads for you yet? I just purchased The Land Geek and am starting out as well.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Bismarck, ND · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 18 votes9y
@Kristin Young (not sure if this is how you tag someone) So my mail went out Tuesday, (975 letters) so I'm expecting my phone to start blowing up in the next couple of days!! Mailed to 2 different counties in 2 different states with different offer price points on each. We'll see what comes of this. Nervous and excited at the same time... Maybe we can compare notes after you do your first mailing campaign and we can share positives and negatives of the programs we bought in to.
What's your timeframe for getting your first mailer out? I suppose you might have some time to spend on the training end of it first though.
I bought the landacademy program about a year ago. I had tried seth's program first but felt there were too many holes at the time and moved on. I believe he has done some updates on some of the key pieces I felt I needed to understand though.
As for the landacademy stuff though, here is my take. Their educational/training program material is pretty good. They also do weekly calls that you can join (free) and listen in on all the questions from investors and their answers.
I think if you're going to land investing, you will be able to do it with their program. They're rolling out some additional tools/sites that will make it even easier.
That being said, I gave it a year and did several mailings. I also did a couple of consulting calls with Jack as well to make sure I was giving myself the best chance at making a go of it. He and, actually both of them, are overly positive which is good but I think the ease at which this works is far overstated by them.
I know several of their members are absolutely crushing it though so I always tell people that there's something to this and people can do extremely well at it. But I think the hardest part is selling land and that seems to be something the program and landacademy in general glosses over way too much. I think it may just be that they're a little out of touch with what it really takes to sell stuff when you're first starting out. They've been doing it for years so I'm guessing their buyer's list just sucks up everything they put out there in an instant.
But I bought stuff thats been sitting for months and months. And I didn't want to put any more money into it because it wasn't selling. Even had them on a consulting call to review my ads and pricing. Said it should sell. The cheapest land out there at the time was 600 to 1k an acre. I was at 300 and couldn't get anything to move. At this point, I'm just trying to dump what I have left for cost (150/acre) and can't even do that.
Again, there are some guys in that group that I've spoken to direct and/or have done some private messaging with that are on fire with it. So even though I just wasn't good enough to make it work, I would still recommend their program of all the ones out there. You'll learn what you'll need to learn from their program and their weekly calls. And the additional consulting calls are a great option too.
Just didn't work for me. Oddly enough, the two of them always make fun of people investing in homes saying how they've never lost money on land. For me, its the other way around. I did nothing but lose a bunch of time and money on the land investing and have done far better with rentals. :-)
- Pasadena, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 4 votes9yHey Joe, looks like you already made a decision. I know folks who started with Land Academy and went to Land Geek and vice versa. The models are 90% the same. The 10% is the community and tools available. I myself went with Land Geek and have had considerable success. It's a great community.
- Investor · Franklin, TN · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 15 votes9y
Hey guys, I thought I'd offer my two cents here. I'm familiar with all the programs you have mentioned here and have paid for either the entire program or pieces of the program for each one of them. I would recommend The Land Geek over the others.
In my opinion The Land Geek program is the most comprehensive, you can start with the toolkit to get the basics down then go to a bootcamp to really solidify the process. Or do Flight School (this wasn't around when I started) for an accelerated college classroom type experience, where you would work in teams all the way through the business with others learning the business just like you. Beyond that there is even one-to-one coaching available for those who really want to accelerate their growth.
The training and education is great, but you actually have to work the business. It's not easy and takes commitment and grit, but if you stick with it you can have great success.
I bought the The Land Geek toolkit a couple of years ago and started off just doing this business on the side, but when I saw the potential after selling my first property for a large cash return I jumped in and really started to put in effort. After having a good year of success in the business on my own I decided to go with one-to-one coaching through The Land Geek. Within the first 3 months of coaching I had booked as much profits in the first quarter as I did the entire year prior on my own. But, none of this happens on its own, it takes work, so remember that.
Each program is different in it's own right, but the concept of buying and selling land and selling for large profits and passive income does really work. I hope that helps a little.
Thanks all for sharing on this thread. Very helpful stuff here.
I'm having the most trouble with deciding on the first market to target. Do I need to invest in desert properties like I see so many do or can I work the same system ( a few hundred to thousand for small 1-5 acre parcels) in areas like Central MN and Northern WI within lake country? I'm not an outdoorsy person and don't intent to be a prepper, a hunter, or living off the grid. Can any of you share experience with the mindset of buyers?
- Real Estate Agent · Sonoma, CA · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 17 votes9y
Hi @Account Closed Thanks for your input. My business partner and I have completed Seth's course and are still struggling to have any success. We have had small wins - phone system, website, all working and having mailed around 1,000 open-ended letters, received about a 3% response. For one reason or another, mostly cost of land, none of the deals have worked.
Is the Land Geek program specific on areas to target? That seems to be our main issue and we don't want to toss $6k at a Flight School if that isn't even covered. Thanks for any input!
- Pasadena, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 4 votes9y
@Kristie Eddy The business model could technically work in any county, but it's most effective in about 50-60 specific counties. There is a list of counties that are proven to have worked and they are included in the LG program. The problem is most people are afraid to go where the competition is so they choose a county that is not proven to produce consistent deals and they quit because they either cannot buy or cannot sell.
That would be the most crucial piece to this business, finding a county that is easy to buy and easy to sell.
- Member since 2017 · 24 posts · 4 votes9y
@Kristie Eddy Hi , may I asked where did you send your mailers? and is it land or homes you are trying to reach?
- North Myrtle Beach, SC · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 8 votes8y
My first post here, sorry it is a book.
@David Banales I have listened to a ton of Land Geek information and videos. I have been researching the land flipping model for a while.
You replied on this thread, "The business model could technically work in any county, but it's most effective in about 50-60 specific counties." 50-60 counties!!!??? Out of over 3000 counties in America, the Land Geek community has only been able to make the system work in 50-60 counties? I don't know about everyone else, but I find this low number extremely alarming. "The business model could technically work in any county", ... BUT it clearly does not.
@Mark Podolsky has said repeatedly that this model will not get saturated. Really? Even if he sells thousands of people his program and they are all working the same 50 to 60 counties? Please don't tell me I have a lack mentality. The "lack mentality" claim is how every marketer, including Mark, shuts down anyone who raises a legitimate presell concern. There is a finite number of potential sellers in these 50 to 60 counties. You are saying the program will only work in less than 2% of America. It is a fact that the likelihood of dud mailings greatly increases with multiple people mailing the same areas. And you are likely to fail if you mail to the other 98%+ of America.
I also think that when you and @Erik Peterson post, you both SHOULD DISCLOSE that you work closely with Mark helping him promote his programs.
Maybe @Mark Podolsky could weigh in about concerns of there only being 50-60 proven counties where the system is "effective". This is a bothersome number to those of us looking at your program. Thanks.
- Providence, RI · Member since 2017 · 62 posts · 17 votes8yHey guys, noob here. Can you elaborate on what these two programs actually do? It sounds interesting to me. Does it involve creating investment packages and mailing them out as a blast to locals looking to upgrade? Thanks for the help, Tom
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Mike H. should have called me I grew up in the land business.. this stuff is old as the hills.
and not much too it.. write letters to buy land in areas that were subdivided years ago and bought as recreational land ( see movie Glenn Garry Glenn Ross ) then advertise it for sale with LOW down owner carry.. that's the game.. expect 30 to 50% defaults and rinse repeat.
Now my dad when he did it bought most of his at tax sales 300 to 500 parcels at a sale.. then would have 3 day event and sell them all for cash.. he would buy them for say 50 to 200 a parcel and sell them for 795 to 1295 a parcel.. but he did volume and that was in the 60's and early 70s.. I worked the rooms with him as his assistant..
If you can scale and there are a few folks that have in the US it can be a big business other wise its just like any other wholesaling guru stuff.. they make the money selling you the little course.. which is simply not that complicated..
- North Myrtle Beach, SC · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 8 votes8y
@Account Closed , Please see my post above. Sorry, new here and did not know how to tag you. Thanks.
Loved that movie. But I never knew that was what they were actually selling - land. To be honest, all I really remember was the alec baldwin part. Although it had quite a few names in that movie - Jack Lemmon, Ed Harris, Pacino, Baldwin, Alan Arkin, Kevin Spacey......
The logic of it makes perfect sense. I understand why someone would be willing to sell at a large discount with vacant land. Some of these people have been sitting on it for 20, 30, 40 years and have done nothing with it but pay taxes on it. I actually bought a couple lots from an older lady that had just deeded her lots over to the HOA to avoid paying any more taxes or fees and to avoid any effort. She was tickled pink to actually get a couple of grand for them.
But selling the land is still the problem. I think I picked a bad county to hit because the lots I got were in an HOA with restrictions. People don't want anything with restrictions out west there. I did sell 2 of the 20 acre lots. Its the others I'm sitting on.
I'm going revisit later on but the houses have picked again for me so I'm a little distracted. Still, it seems like it might be a good way to some extra income. Just need to find a better county. I'm going to try again come the new year.
I'm not looking to scale it into a big business. If I could make 3 to 5k a month off it, I'd be happy.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Mike H. as you might guess I can give you chapter and verse on this business back to 1900.
out west there were literally Million's of lots platted with no roads utls etc.
think Riverside San berdo counties ( high desert) counties of N cal Lake county 100k lots all platted no roads.. even in Santa Cruz , Sonoma and other bay area counties you have lots platted that were never built on.. but someone has been paying tax's on them for 100 years.. the big years were 1922 to 1928.
remember there were no regulations..
Same with NV deserts.. ARizona deserts NM Texas.. and of course parts of Montana .. Oregon
WA.. there was a huge boom in the post war 50's to 60s ergo they made the movie Glen Garry Glenn Ross.. were developers really marketed this stuff.. also its what created Florida.
just look at Lehigh Acres 300k lots platted recorded roads pushed through no homes.. those lots are traded still to this day back and forth up and down just talk to @John Thedford he lives there.
and literally every state and county has some land developments that never built out..
my first ten years in real estate from 18 years old to about 28 that's all I did was sell land.. land in those days 1975 to 1985 was the low value rental of today that is so popular in the mid west..
by 1980 houses in Cupertino were I lived were already north of 100 to 150k and by 85 were 500k.. so its the exact same sentiment you see on BP daily... I live in CA but I am priced out and I want to buy property and now I have been told it has to be cash flow property so I am looking to invest my 25k cash I have.. well that buyer used to buy land from us.. that buyer now pretty much buys from turn key companies and other mid west cash flow markets.
there are companies that buy large amounts of this dirt and sell it in china.. half of the desert in Palmdale is own by Chinese and most of the land is still not buildable. but they are legal lots of record.
And of lot of these smaller parcels will never be buildable.. and counties like Lake co.. no longer put them on the tax sale.. I know we own 100 or so of them I we used to let them go for tax's and get the overages LOL.. but people still by and sell them I get letters from students of these land gurus every month..
I could go on and on.. but you get the drift..
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Mike H. if you want extra income I would suggest you simply buy nicer property.
get a good deal then sell on terms.. that's how its done. but its got to be land someone else really wants to own and will pay for.
- Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2008 · 281 posts · 113 votes8y
@Neil Collette what separates me from everyone else is I'm a full-time land investor. That is, I make my living buying and selling raw land. Here are my numbers for this year YTD:
https://www.evernote.com/l/AAMTdPAUtB9In5x-fv4I-b0...
So, I certainly wouldn't saturate my own market... And we are priced high enough that we won't saturate our market with students... So I get the fear, but it is not reality. If and when it does become a problem for my community that we have too many people competing in the same market we will adjust to protect our community.
That being said, the model is simple. Take the comps and divide by 4. Get a 300% margin of safety. Send an offer. My secret counties list is simply the areas I definitively know deals are being done myself, by my competition or my students.
Also, the best place to really learn is our free training webinar on our site. I clearly state in the training my results are not typical and most people that buy any real estate program will probably not make any money whatsoever.
This is work. I can save you time and help you avoid the mistakes I made, but at the end of the day it may be simple, but it ain't easy.
David Banales is no longer part of our community and Erik Peterson started with the toolkit, went into one on one coaching and is now coaching others. You can hear his story on our podcast.
To Engineering Your Success,
Mark - Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Mike H. as you might guess I can give you chapter and verse on this business back to 1900.
out west there were literally Million's of lots platted with no roads utls etc.
think Riverside San berdo counties ( high desert) counties of N cal Lake county 100k lots all platted no roads.. even in Santa Cruz , Sonoma and other bay area counties you have lots platted that were never built on.. but someone has been paying tax's on them for 100 years.. the big years were 1922 to 1928.
remember there were no regulations..
Same with NV deserts.. ARizona deserts NM Texas.. and of course parts of Montana .. Oregon
WA.. there was a huge boom in the post war 50's to 60s ergo they made the movie Glen Garry Glenn Ross.. were developers really marketed this stuff.. also its what created Florida.
just look at Lehigh Acres 300k lots platted recorded roads pushed through no homes.. those lots are traded still to this day back and forth up and down just talk to @John Thedford he lives there.
and literally every state and county has some land developments that never built out..
my first ten years in real estate from 18 years old to about 28 that's all I did was sell land.. land in those days 1975 to 1985 was the low value rental of today that is so popular in the mid west..
by 1980 houses in Cupertino were I lived were already north of 100 to 150k and by 85 were 500k.. so its the exact same sentiment you see on BP daily... I live in CA but I am priced out and I want to buy property and now I have been told it has to be cash flow property so I am looking to invest my 25k cash I have.. well that buyer used to buy land from us.. that buyer now pretty much buys from turn key companies and other mid west cash flow markets.
there are companies that buy large amounts of this dirt and sell it in china.. half of the desert in Palmdale is own by Chinese and most of the land is still not buildable. but they are legal lots of record.
And of lot of these smaller parcels will never be buildable.. and counties like Lake co.. no longer put them on the tax sale.. I know we own 100 or so of them I we used to let them go for tax's and get the overages LOL.. but people still by and sell them I get letters from students of these land gurus every month..
I could go on and on.. but you get the drift..
I own one rental in Lehigh. I remember when the insanity speculation took over in 2004-5. We saw lots go from 3K all the way to 36K. They are back to around 3K---maybe a little more. GLAD I didn't buy into that runup:)
I think that may have been the other part of my problem. It seems like you either have to go on the low end stuff (i.e. buy for 500 to 1k and sell for 1k or 2k) so that you are affordable enough. Or else go big to where you're getting stuff that people really want.
I kind of went in the middle by going for larger parcels that I was paying 3k to 5k for and trying to sell for 6k to 8k.
The fear with going big (i.e paying 25k for something worth 50k) is that what happens if I get stuck with a mistake. I'm out 25k. Thats a hit. At 3k to 5k, I can spread the risk out a bit and even if I have to eat one, that doesn't hurt as much. 25k would hurt. :-)
But I might give it a shot just to see. I guess it would be kind of tough to take a complete loss. Maybe buy for 25k and as a worst case end up having to take a loss and sell for 20k?
Land is just tough to know what people will really want to buy. Higher price does not always equate to higher demand.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Mike H. I had the benefit of being the top producing land broker in my county.. so I know the exit price and what people will pay.. this is the problem with these types of things.
you have experts and you have beginners.. with no history or understanding the markets they are buying in .. if you look at Mark's post above you will see a guy that is putting out thousands of offers and has a big shop plus probably makes a bunch of money selling his system..
I know a few others in the industry that have gotten quite wealthy doing this.. and they have big productions big staff big budgets etc.. Although I had lunch with one last month and he is moving into cash flow mid west rental LOL go figure.. but they have 20 to 30 million to play with.
mom and pop its hit and miss just like any other guru system.
the Yancy vegas seminars will have Lehigh acres lots for sale at 9 to 15k each and they are buying them as @John Thedford stated for 3 to 4k each.. but they get a big group of 400 people in a room and they can sell anything.. plus they are selling low end Detroit rentals as well along with coaching etc.
this is all very big business at the top.. its really like MLM the top 5 guys make all the dough the rest well you feed into them.
not that there are folks succeeding there are .. but just know what you doing is exactly like Mark alluded to in his post.. most don't make money and its a ton of work.
Heck I might have been the land geek if it did not venture into HML and leave the land business I sure knew how to do it.. LOL
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Mike H. you can also get lucky I bought a 4 acre tract in Sonoma county in 1994.. it would not perc.
it was unbuildable.. but I liked the location.. I paid 27k for it back then.. I know a tidy sum
well it got annexed into the city of Rohnert park as mixed used residential. and now all these years later the value is in the 3 million range.. most people wont buy this stuff.. it just sits there.. sellers were old couple up in Washington state they just got tired of paying tax's..
But there was deductive reasoning there.. freeway interchange . new home depot.. take a risk what the heck it was only 27k
now with the big fires the city is fast tracking us.. but you can't count on massive wild fire to make your deals.. Sonoma county lost 6 thousand houses in 3 days... far worse than any of the other storms and these house are all burnt to the ground..
So maybe that's what you start to look for.. take some time and find land in the path of progress.. that's where the big money is made in real estate in the buy hold and forget it scheme.
flipping dirt is a paper game.. buy low sell on terms live on the payments when buyer defaults do it again and you will have a staggering amount of defaults when someone buys desert dirt and realize's down the track they made a bad investment or they will never use it.. that's whey they sell at tax's
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