I&#x27;m taking a field trip to Cleveland!

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Hi @Ryan Evans,

I have 109 front doors in mostly suburbs of Cleveland, including a 24 unit I am closing on soon in Akron. I kind of chronicled my story on Bigger Pockets Podcast 238. I too believe if you do this right, Cleveland and Akron etc... are great places to be investing right now. Anyone on BP, listen to the podcast with Brandon Turner and Scott Trench and you have an open invitation to check out my profile and contact me by phone, pm etc.. I may have some great suggestions.

I love talking Cleveland and Akron RE. I am not an agent. I don't have a website, but a lot of front doors, forced appreciation and LOTS OF CASHFLOW!!!!

If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change right before your eyes!! Change your paradigm and change your life!!!!

Swanny

10 Reply

Ian Kurela

Specialist · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 239 posts · 117 votes

9y

@Michael Swan Last I heard was around mid 80's. Great work Michael!

Also can't wait to meet up @Ryan Evans

Ned J.Pro Member

Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Following....... very interested in your experience

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Thank you @Ian Kurela

Anybody can do it if I can do it. $80,000 combined family income here!! I worked 60 hours a week for the last 10 years to achieve this. If you live like no one else now, you can live like no one else later. Get a great job, make a lot more w2 earned income than my family makes, invest in assets that put tax deferred cash flow in your pocket every month. Stop contributing more than what your company will match in the 401K, get rid of those car payments, student loans, toys bought on time etc... Hoard a lot of cash in a money market fund and build your financial freedom account up to capitalize on opportunities to buy more assets that put tax deferred cash flow in your pocket every month and you will be way above my $160,000 primarily tax deferred cash flow per year. If you don't make enough W2 earned income than get a part time job and hyper save for more assets.

YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Swanny

11 Reply

Account Closed

San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 23 votes

9y

@Ryan Evans

Are you planning on going through Brooklyn, Parma, and Kamm's Korner? We discussed this in a prior post but I'm really interested to hear what you have to say if you check those areas out.

Best Of luck with the trip!

[email protected]786-494-6766

Robert EllisBusiness Member

Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Ryan Evans:

A lot of eyes are on the midwest these days so I thought I’d put an offer out there for all the BP folks around the country who have their eye on Cleveland, Ohio.

I've personally placed a major bet on Cleveland as an upcoming city for long term buy-and-holds and I have plenty of reasons why. I've got a duplex running a 44% ROI and another ~24%'er on the way. It's a duplex closing on Sep 5. I live in the Seattle/Tacoma area so I'm doing the whole out of state thing.

Anyway, I see a lot of interest in Cleveland, Akron, Toledo, Columbus, Cincinnati, etc. (sorry for keyword spam!), here in the forums, but the Midwest can be a risky place to invest. Not everyone has the capacity to fly out to every city they want to invest in, but some questions can only be answered by being on the ground.

So, if that’s you, maybe I can help! I’m flying to Cleveland from Sep 5-10th to get keys, fix the new place up, look at some properties, grow the team, and generally get the place rent ready. The ugly details are where the real learning happens so if you want to know about the deal, agents, contractors, taxes, regulations, contracts, financials, etc., while I go through the process, I’m happy to share my experience. I’ll be sure to document the process and post it on BP. I’ll also be bringing my best friend out from Alaska. He’s never set foot in Ohio or even bought a property but is looking at investing in Cleveland. Maybe you can relate?

Anyway, the BP community has helped me a ton, so here’s my chance to build up some good karma. If you want to know what it’s like to be a new out of state investor buying a property in the midwest, I invite you along for the ride :)

A year ago I was totally new to investing, but I’m slowly getting it figured out. Leave a comment or send a PM if you have any questions on what it’s like to do a deal out in the Cleve. If you like what you see and might want to talk partnerships, I’m all ears. Also, if you don’t have any local contacts out there and there is something we can do to help while we’re in town, don’t be shy!

are you making a stop in columbus or looking here at all?

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Ritch Bonisa

Specialist · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2016 · 841 posts · 480 votes

9y

@Ryan Evans You definitely need boots on the ground. There are some unique things you can do on remote rehabs, but you do need someone on the ground to be able to put eyes on it. Whatever you do, begin looking for someone to represent you in whichever market you choose. I would do that before I even look for a property.

3 Reply

Jared Lichtin

Contractor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2014 · 317 posts · 181 votes

9y

@Ryan Evans I am headed back to Cleveland on Sept 27 to check on my projects..We have a few light rehab projects there at the moment. Also, I saw on another thread that you are thinking of using Key bank... They suck. If you could find someone else I'd recommend it. This is the time to be at the front of it! Give me a call sometime and I'd be happy to chat before your trip.

Ryan Evans

OP

Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 653 posts · 769 votes

9y

@Michael Swan a lot of folks don't see the massive potential in going out of state so it's great to see what can be done! I'd like to start getting into properties with more units and keep scaling up. I've for 4 down and lot more to go!

@Ian Kurela likewise!

@Account Closed Unfortunately not this time. I'm sticking with Cleveland for the time being.

Ryan Evans

OP

Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 653 posts · 769 votes

9y

@Jared Lichtin I'm not personally using any banks anytime soon. I've been a bit of a nomad the last couple years so banks don't particularly like me! I was referencing my friend, but I'll make sure my he looks at all the options.

Chris Strokes

Investor · Leesburg, VA · Member since 2015 · 54 posts · 19 votes

9y

@Ryan Evans I would love to hear how it goes and how you set up your team.

Lesley Ray

Architect · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 41 votes

9y

@Ryan Evans, I would also love to hear about your experience! I'm currently focusing on Lakewood and Ohio City but would be interested to hear if you learn of other neighborhoods growing at similar (or higher) rates. I don't have any properties yet but am looking to invest in the next 6-12 months.

Joseph M.

Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes

9y

@Ryan Evans , definitely interested to hear about your upcoming field trip , definitely seems you are doing things the right way. Hope you have a great and safe trip!

Account Closed

Real Estate Investor · Marysville, OH · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 196 votes

9y

I have all my rentals up in that area currently. One of the reasons I was motivated to move back to Ohio from across the country (~3 years ago) was due to where I perceived the mid-west relative to other areas that were a few years further along in the housing recovery. I'm really glad we moved back to Ohio and I'm glad I was able to get some deals before the prices went too high.

I highly recommend anyone looking to invest where it isn't in their local area, to take a trip to the subject area and see it for yourself. I see people on this thread doing that and it's a really smart move. The cost to do so is negligible over the long run even if you are flying, and if you can drive it's even less. I know the thing that sold me was actually driving around and realizing that the areas I was looking at were much nicer than I expected. You know, because, Cleveland:)

I would recommend having whoever your local guide is, both show you some property you have pre-screened online, and also have them show you some they have selected. Make sure to tour a few areas. Your target areas, and maybe a couple surrounding ones. Get the lay of the land.

3 Reply

James Koorey

Parma, OH · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes

9y

I am an investor from cleaveland. I would love to catch some coffee or food and see if I can help you in any way.

Michael Plante

Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Michael Swan:

Thank you @Ian Kurela

Anybody can do it if I can do it. $80,000 combined family income here!! I worked 60 hours a week for the last 10 years to achieve this. If you live like no one else now, you can live like no one else later. Get a great job, make a lot more w2 earned income than my family makes, invest in assets that put tax deferred cash flow in your pocket every month. Stop contributing more than what your company will match in the 401K, get rid of those car payments, student loans, toys bought on time etc... Hoard a lot of cash in a money market fund and build your financial freedom account up to capitalize on opportunities to buy more assets that put tax deferred cash flow in your pocket every month and you will be way above my $160,000 primarily tax deferred cash flow per year. If you don't make enough W2 earned income than get a part time job and hyper save for more assets.

YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Swanny

Very kind of you to offer help.

I have mentored others and find it to be very rewarding.

I don't want to clutter this thread but had a quick question 168k/yr seems low on over 100 doors.

Are there major things you would do differently of you we're starting over maybe the OP and others would benefit from hearing

Account Closed

Bridgeport, CT · Member since 2017 · 19 posts · 8 votes

9y

Its funny reading this because I just came back from cleveland. I live in CT and I own some rental properties there. I went there to take care of some stuff and add 3 more properties to my profolio(2 duplexes and 1 single). 1 duplex is getting me 1300/month and the other 1100/month. The single will be rent ready soon and looking to 750/month, its a 5 bedroom.

I usually just drive there. It takes 8hrs. Sometimes i do it in 1 day but sometimes i do it in 2 days to rest well. All my 5 properties were owner financing and will pay them off by december. Next year, ill refinance them all to aquire some more. Could get away with around 200k in my small pocket.

I love this business. I could never dream this. On my way to financial freedom.

5 Reply

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Hi @Michael Plante

If you listened well to Podcast 238 really well, you would have noticed my first 2 apartment complexes I purchased went bad really fast. Luckily for me, I had 8 other pricey condos that had doubled and could well than make up for those 2 dogs. I would have been at about $200,000 if I would not have made those 2 early mistakes. Currently we are selling those 2 losing assets. For Apartment complexes if you have $125.00 per door cash flow that is pretty good!! Remember the Apartment complex business model is a different beast all together. On my original 10 condos I was only getting approximately $50,000 a year. By 1031 exchanging those condos that each practically doubled in value, Now have $160,000 cash flow and in 4 of the apartment complexes we have dramatically forced appreciation too that we will either refinance and take all that appreciation in year 4 or 5 of ownership or at that same time 1031 exchange for a larger property at that time. Remember, these commercial loans are 20 yr amortizations and we pay down a LOT of principal in a 5 or 10 year period. One loan we pay $1900.00 principal every month. Over the course of 5 years we pay down $125,000 of the loan balance on that one loan.

If done right, the Multifamily business model has amazing potential and is not primarily based on Comps. NOI rules valuation wise.

I would highly advise all to read Multifamily Millions by David Lindahl.

What I did wrong was I thought buying a yield deal would have been safer and I didn't follow David Lindahl's proven step by step path. Also, if I was to do it again for the first time, I would have used a mentor etc... anyway I could. If I did not have 1031 money, I could have invested as a passive in a deal with a successful lead that would have taught me step by step and I would not have made those 2 rookie mistakes.

I learned the hard way. You guys don't have to. I am not complaining. $160,000 cash flow, with forced appreciation on my 4 others and soon to be 5 others after I sign final loan docs on Sept 9th, this upcoming Saturday on our newest 24 units in Akron and then we will be at that 109 front doors.

After the sale of the 2 dogs, we will be 18 front doors less. That won't be until Nov or Dec.

Swanny

5 Reply

Michael Plante

Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Michael Swan:

Hi @Michael Plante

If you listened well to Podcast 238 really well, you would have noticed my first 2 apartment complexes I purchased went bad really fast. Luckily for me, I had 8 other pricey condos that had doubled and could well than make up for those 2 dogs. I would have been at about $200,000 if I would not have made those 2 early mistakes. Currently we are selling those 2 losing assets. For Apartment complexes if you have $125.00 per door cash flow that is pretty good!! Remember the Apartment complex business model is a different beast all together. On my original 10 condos I was only getting approximately $50,000 a year. By 1031 exchanging those condos that each practically doubled in value, Now have $160,000 cash flow and in 4 of the apartment complexes we have dramatically forced appreciation too that we will either refinance and take all that appreciation in year 4 or 5 of ownership or at that same time 1031 exchange for a larger property at that time. Remember, these commercial loans are 20 yr amortizations and we pay down a LOT of principal in a 5 or 10 year period. One loan we pay $1900.00 principal every month. Over the course of 5 years we pay down $125,000 of the loan balance on that one loan.

If done right, the Multifamily business model has amazing potential and is not primarily based on Comps. NOI rules valuation wise.

I would highly advise all to read Multifamily Millions by David Lindahl.

What I did wrong was I thought buying a yield deal would have been safer and I didn't follow David Lindahl's proven step by step path. Also, if I was to do it again for the first time, I would have used a mentor etc... anyway I could. If I did not have 1031 money, I could have invested as a passive in a deal with a successful lead that would have taught me step by step and I would not have made those 2 rookie mistakes.

I learned the hard way. You guys don't have to. I am not complaining. $160,000 cash flow, with forced appreciation on my 4 others and soon to be 5 others after I sign final loan docs on Sept 9th, this upcoming Saturday on our newest 24 units in Akron and then we will be at that 109 front doors.

After the sale of the 2 dogs, we will be 18 front doors less. That won't be until Nov or Dec.

Swanny

Thank you for taking the time for the detailed reply it is much appreciated

Wow I have to be honest reading through that is like reading another language I have no clue what so much of that even means

I started with a single family house bought with credit cards lol.

I've never read a book about investing in real estate Recently talked to a friend of mine who invest in real estate and was happy with the 13% return on investment

I'm not sure how you even figured that

He asked what investments I have and when I was going for a run and returns on flip so I told him and he figured out it's over 25% return on investment on the rentals I have which to me is OK but not great then again I don't know what others think because I say I've never read a book about it and this is the first form I've read about it

Similar things happened in business for me I think sometimes were way down by reading too much information overload and not expecting More from ourselves and our investments are both in owning businesses as well as real estate investment

From what he said and what I'm reading here if I had gone by the books and the so-called gurus I would've been happy with 13% ROI and here I am at almost double that by just stumbling blindly looking at the best deals and forcing things to happen

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Your Welcome @Michael Plante. Have a great Labor Day!!!

Swanny

Jonathan McKay

Investor · Spokane WA · Member since 2015 · 88 posts · 49 votes

9y

@Ryan Evans I've heard lots of good things about Cleveland and am going there myself to start looking for apartment deals, and would love to hear about what you find out. When I went to Indianapolis last year, the one thing I discovered was the most important part was finding an inspector I trust.

@Michael Swan - I listened to your podcast and didn't connect the dots until your post here! I'm looking at doing something similar, although I'm hoping to do more value add deals. I'm in process on two complexes (24 units total) in my hometown in Spokane, and hoping to do something similar in Cleveland.

I'm going to be in Cleveland October 5-9th, and have the same offer, if there's something I can help with on the ground, let me know! Whatever the case, we west-coast-Cleveland-investors should stick together ;)

2 Reply

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

Thank you @Jonathan McKay

Go to my profile and contact me if you want to talk more Cleveland Multifamily. That offer is open to anyone that is looking for advice etc...

Swanny

2 Reply

Dylan VargasPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Chico, CA · Member since 2016 · 633 posts · 336 votes

9y

@Ryan Evans Awesome! Have a great time and good job. We are doing the same soon. Narrowing down a city. Good luck and keep us posted. Have fun!

Michael Rodriguez

Real Estate Investor · Thornton, CO · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 42 votes

9y

Michael Swan send me your stinker properties in Heights so I can avoid them -;) and thanks for sharing your problems with them. I'm avoiding those parking problem MF properties on my search. Ryan Evans looking forward to catching up with you when I'm in CLE Sept 4-7th. I'll show you the MF properties I'm checking out. A Cleveland visit before action is a must.