Investinista reporting on Tulum, Mexico

Investinista reporting on Tulum, Mexico

Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 207 posts · 138 votes

Many of us is trying to get out of the Rat Race and have probably thought about living abroad.   With the uncertainty of the US economy,  many savy Investors of our times such as the Trumps, Kiyosaki and Buffett have began transitioning their assets adding international properties into their portfolios.  I happen to go to Tulum almost on an annual basis and this is probably my 5th time there so I would like to report on the changes that I see this time around.  Of course taking the advice from Amanda Han that all trips could be Investing focused, I certainly incorporated this advice into this trip.  This is what I see regarding Tulum, Playa Del Carmen, Yucatán area of Mexico:

Tulum is becoming up and up:  more restaurants are added and extending far inside the Biosphere towards Punta Allen.  Most restauranteurs often needs to prove themselves from places like Mexico City and regions of Italy in order to get investor fundings to open their up and coming restaurants in Tulum. The whole town is certainly fitting for celebrities as they love Tulum.  Dinning experience along with its excellent service with its ambience fit for the Bachlor and Bachlorrette show are becoming more creative with eco conscious cuisines and flavorful coctails.  I am seeing more expats here than ever and they come from all over the world.  These people tends to come to enjoy the great weather and comfortable living and were living here as investors to spiritual counselors or yoga teachers and herbalist.  With Cancun airport being such an easy airport with great flights to many destinations I can see how it is very easy to call Tulum home.  

Tulum Real Estate:  as fancy condos are building out in Playa del Carmen, the affordable price points can be found in Tulum.  I toured with an agent whom took us to 5 different properties.  They were in various phases in becoming complete.  One can buy a condo with entry points around $67K for a studio which probably hasn’t broken grounds yet or in its very early stages of building.  My agent took us to a property that was only complete with bricks laid out up to the 3rd floor penthouse roof top.  Back in the states, these types of tours would never happen without a Hard Hat which I didn’t see anyone wear.  (We are in Mexico after all.). But we get the sense of the location and the feel once it is complete only by looking at the brochures.  They didn’t have show rooms.   However that $67K condo once it is complete, kissing that final stage of completion can go up in value to about $100K. According to my agent there are a lot of investors that do just that and making a decent return.  There are some recognition that land for building is becoming scarce and many locals properties are being purchased by developers and some gentrification activities are noted.  Also with the unfriendliness of the US Trump immigration harassment, many Mexicans from the US are moving back and they bring with them their US standards of living so there is more demand for housing from this group as well.  In addition, the US dollars is still trading at $1 to 19 pesos, this makes Mexico a very attractive pick for many investors.

Crypto currencies:  For the first time in my travel, I begin to see that crypto currencies were getting more popular.  As one may have experience in Mexico, many establishments don’t like credit cards.  If they take them, it is usually with a fee of 3% to 6%.  On this trip to Mexico, I must have seen at least 10 restaurants that read on their menu:  “Cash only, no credit cards, BitCoin, Etherum, or Ripple accepted”

So of those of you who are considering Mexico as a place to invest, I would love to hear about it.  Or if you are already investing in Mexico, please share.  As I love it there and I go every year, I would love to hear your take in all that is going on and what sort of investment strategies you are thinking of implementing into your portfolio.  Mexico was voted by International Magazine as one of the top countries to retire a few years ago so wondering if anyone is planning on taking the plunge.  

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Investor · Bradenton, FL · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 10 votes
8y

@Angela Yan Great post! My wife and I have recently visited Tulum and purchased an investment condo in Aldea Zama. The area is beautiful - somehow laid back and upscale at the same time. The investment value in this area, in my humble opinion, is hard to beat. 

@Eric C. It is obvious that you have never been to this area. Tulum is an hour and a half from Cancun. Calling Tulum and Cancun the same place is like saying Laguna Niguel is the same as Inglewood or Compton, which are certainly much closer (even with traffic) than Tulum is to Cancun.  

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  • Mike LambertPro Member
    Investor · The Americas and Europe · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Brunnhilde Wijnaar @Kevin Smith @Patrick Sullivan

    I have been investing in pre-construction condos in the Riviera Maya since 2017, targeting Playa del Carmen. I'm connected with the best developer in the region and I by directly from him, along with investors. I buy in exclusive pre-sales before the launch at a huge discount and I get financing from the developer, which multiply our returns severalfold. A much as I'd love to recommend them here, I cannot because these pre-sales are unadvertised and the developer want to keep them under wraps so I can only disclose them to the people who decide to invest with me.

    However, I can opine on other developers if I know anything about them. Patrick, I don't know anything about R4. Kevin, I don't know if you signed up with Anah already. I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole. My develop told me they are in (financial?) trouble. Some people in my network used to deal with them. Not anymore. Some are stuck in a project. In fact, they have a project on upper 5th Avenue in Playa del Carmen. I passed along when I was there in December and the property was fenced. Nothing was happening and it looked like the construction was interrupted.

    This underscores my policy of not giving any money to a developer in Mexico unless I know them personally or somebody I trust knows them. You guys need to do your due diligence.

    If you have been to Playa to Tulum, you undoubtedly have seen huge billboards from GMB advertising various projects and supposedly guaranteeing the buyer a return between 8 and 13%. Two things here. Firstly, why would you take the risks of investing in Mexico for an 8% return or even 13% when you can get that or better in the US with much less risk and more control. Secondly, think about what this means. If the revenue from your own unit or the pool isn't enough to pay you 8%, somebody (them or the developer) will have to pay the shortfall. If it's them they guaranteed a huge number of project. So if there is a worldwide or local downturn in tourism, they'll have to pay huge sums of money to the buyers, which they might not have. GMB is a broker, not a developer, so it is likely they wouldn't have the money and their company doesn't own property or most likely doesn't have the assets to liquidate to pay you. If somebody was offering me a guarantee, I would and should ask for their balance sheet to see if they're good for it. And even if it's the developer who issues the guarantee, many of them wouldn't have the money to honour it either. Thankfully my developer is one of the richest family in the area so I don't have the problem but they don't (need to) give me a guarantee anyway. Generally speaking, if somebody other than a bank or an insurance company issues you a financial guarantee, you should ask for their balance sheet to check if it's likely they'll be able to honor the guarantee. Ask GMB or the developer to show you their balance sheet and look at their face. Finally on this guarantee topic, let's assume that whoever issues the guarantee has enough money to pay you. It doesn't mean they're going to. Try to win against a Mexican company in a Mexican court. Good luck!

    Finally, there is one kind of project I would avoid like the pest and I suspect that those offering a supposedly guaranteed return fall into that for obvious reasons. If you buy in certain projects, the developer will force to rent through his rental pool and will give you some limited personal usage. This mind sound great at first glance. You have nothing to do and you have less risk because you get paid based on the occupancy of the whole complex, not just your unit. I think this is a very bad deal. First of all, it's horrendously expensive. No matter how much your unit rents, they will take first dibs, generally 40% of the gross income. In other words, you're the one investing the money and taking the risks and they make most of the money without investing a cent and taking any risk. Secondly, you don't have any freedom. You cannot use your unit as you please (for own occupancy or renting) and, worse, you cannot fire them as property manager even if their performance is bad. Think about this!

    Hopefully I didn't sound too negative or discouraging. I love the Riviera Maya and Tulum and I love to invest there. It can be a winner for you but you need to know what you're doing! It's important you know and understand all that I mentioned. Nobody's gonna mentioned that to you there and certainly not the brokers who have a vested interest in selling to you and regardless don't have the background to understand some of the things I explained.

    Hope this helps everyone and I'm happy to help more if I can.

  • Mike LambertPro Member
    Investor · The Americas and Europe · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Brunnhilde Wijnaar @Kevin Smith @Patrick Sullivan

    Correction to my previous post. The first sentence should read "I have been investing in pre-construction condos in the Riviera Maya since 2017, targeting Playa del Carmen AND TULUM". I'm focusing on Tulum these days and the project I'm currently investing in is in Tulum. Playa del Carmen is more of an established market while Tulum is more of a growth market.

  • Investor · Bradenton, FL · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Mike Lambert thank you for your perspective on the development projects there in the Riviera Maya. I completely agree that due diligence is important and everybody should know who they are buying from.

    I find it very important to visit a developer’s previous and ongoing projects while doing due diligence. Having a construction and engineering background, I really like to see the quality of construction being used. My wife and I visited multiple projects from multiple developers in various stages of construction. Plain and simple - Anah, Tao and GMB are building the highest quality projects in the area. There are a couple others building some quality condo products as well, but these three have the longest history in the area. They also have the best track record of success with their previous projects.

    I have not heard what you have about Anah. On the contrary, I have heard that all of the developers are running a bit behind schedule because they have been so successful that they are selling projects out faster than they can build them. It doesn’t make sense to me that successful developers in a growing, rapidly appreciating market would be having financial trouble. In my experience, the opposite is true.

    I am curious who your developer is? I noticed you purposely never mention their name. It doesn’t make sense to me that they would want to keep their pre-sales a secret. I think the idea is to get the word and start bringing in cash to get your project off the ground. Is there a reason your guy keeps them a secret? I would advise you to be careful with that.

    As for financing, none of the good developers offer true financing (like you would see in the US or Canada). Tao offers 50% financing but the interest rate is high (just like all financing in Mexico). I did notice that there were a few small, new developers offering financing as a way to get people to consider them. To me, that is taking a serious risk on someone new, that is inexperienced in the market. For example, there was a developer from CDMX in Aldea Zama offering some financing, and after we went and looked at what they were building, I can see why they were having trouble finding buyers. The construction quality was sub-standard and the layout of their condos and community was very odd.

    As for property management done by the developer, I happen to think this a good idea for a number of reasons. First, they do not take 40% off the top. The developers I mentioned are all lower than that. Second, having property management in place for the entire community promotes a cohesive management for the property - think booking, setting rates, solving issues, etc. Also, you certainly can use your unit whenever you want. You simply tell them to remove it from the rental pool for x time period and it is yours to use.

  • Mike LambertPro Member
    Investor · The Americas and Europe · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Kevin Smith You're welcome. The reality is not necessarily what you're buying told or shown and you can only know for sure if you're an insider.

    Regarding Anah, I sent the following email to my developer, which is self-explanatory: "A good friend of mine is investing with Anah Hunab in Tulum. I remember when you were driving me around last December you mentioned one developer was in (financial?) trouble and had to stop a project people both you and I know have invested in. You said you thought it was Anah. A little bit later, I passed by Anah's project on 5th Avenue and I noticed that the project had been stopped. Then, I remembered that our friend xxx used to recommend Anah's projects but hasn't over the last few years. Putting everything together, are they in trouble? Should my friend worry? I referred to you as a good friend to make sure he responds in a timely fashion. :)

    It is not true that all developers are late on their projects. This is the excuse those who are late for various reasons are using.

    Tao used to be good developer. However, I have heard from various trustworthy sources that most of their latest projects haven't been selling well. You could corroborate that with agents.

    You seem to have a misunderstanding about what GMB does. GMB stands for Gamma Master Broker. They are a broker; they're not a builder. They're selling the projects of developers who are not capable enough to sell their projects by themselves. They have been along for long but they haven't built anything. They're all about mass selling. I was invited and went to their end of year party the purpose of which was to give awards to their brokers who sell the most. I let you judge whether these are the type of people you should be trusting.

    You're right when it comes to the financing. It's normally not offered and certainly not by the best developers. Its very costly to them and they don't need to do it. Like you wrote, those who offer it do it probably because it's the only way they can sell their not-so-good project. However, a few insiders like me get it from the best developers and so people who invest with me benefit from it as well. The developers who give it to me will never offer it to you. And if you ask them, they're gonna respond that they don't provide any financing. It suits them to offer some financing and they only give it to their connections and those related to them. I'm a careful person by nature but I've been doing this for 2 years and my friend who introduced me to that has been doing it for 15!

    There are two reasons why I don't mention the name of the developer. If you wonder why the developer keeps the pre-sales under wraps, ask yourself how you would feel if you're the first person to get to the laugh of a project and you learn that some people just bought the same condo as you a few weeks before and paid 35% less. Would you be happy? I don't think so. Then, if I promote the projects I invest in in places like here and create demand at the launch, my investors and I could make a huge profit by flipping our contracts. I think this is unethical so I just don't do it. I don't promote what I do generally speaking or here for that matter. If investors want to invest with me and share in my privileges, they need to contact me.

    As to the 40% commission, you're right not everyone charges that. It's up to 40%. I just want to accentuate how outrageous I think that is. Many charge 30% and it's not that much better. This being said, if you're happy to make 8%, then everybody's happy.

  • Rental Property Investor · Middletown, NY · Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Nick Tolson

    I agree with you 100% about Inglewood. People tend to label areas as “bad” if it’s low income or they don’t see people that look like them.... if some investors would take the time to research and not assume, the better off they would be.

    My dad worked the borders as an officer - Cartel and the resorts literally have a contract where gangs, etc... cannot be active in and around tourist areas - The problems start when tourists leave the resorts and are instructed by the resorts NOT to venture in certain areas, but they do anyways....

    I see this all the damn time. Having visited over 54 countries, it is all the same, no different than here. There are high crime areas and nicer areas. Do you’re research before making blanket statements.

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 8 votes
    7y

    @Mike Lambert  and @Kevin Smith this is a very interesting dialogue - thank you.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 207 posts · 138 votes
    7y

    @Kevin Smith and @Brunnhilde Wijnaar.  Sorry it has been a few months since this thread.  I have been putting off buying in Tulum as I am heavy with an investment in Atlanta (Air Bnb).  However, on that note, just wondering how are your investments going? @Kevin Smith, did you start renting out your investment, if so doing well? Like your property manager? @Brunnhilde Wijnaar, buy anything yet?

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 18 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    @Angela Yan hey there! I am closing on my first multi family on April 30th 🎉. 2 doors in downtown Orlando, a 3 bedroom/ 3 Bath and a 2 Bedroom / 2 Bath. We’ll be living in the 2/2. 

    I am still intending to buy in Tulum and I connected with Kevin’s realtor. After I close on the Orlando property and get my renovation done I’ll head out to Tulum for a trip to look at options. 

    What do you own in atlanta? Have browsed there, but not to familiar with the market there. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Angela Yan

    What is the capital gain tax situation if you buy a condo for $100K and sell it for $200K? Mexico or US capital gain tax?

    Sam Shueh

    PS: I think US plastic money is not well accepted because there is more CC fraud and harder for vendors to process. There is foreign transaction fee on top.

  • Investor · Bradenton, FL · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Angela Yan All going according to plan so far. I bought a pre-sale before they had started development - It is not expected to be finished until April 2020. However, they gave me a schedule and so far are amazingly right on schedule. I anticipate there will be delays, but there have not been any to this point.   

  • Investor · Bradenton, FL · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Brunnhilde Wijnaar Congrats on the Orlando purchase! My wife and I own a couple rentals in Orlando as well. Great market. I am heading back down to Tulum this Saturday, going to meet up with Nora and Anah as well to walk through the project.  

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 18 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    Thanks @Kevin Smith! I'm excited. 

    Where in Orlando do you currently own? Am keeping my eyes open for more opportunities here.

    Enjoy Tulum! Let me know if you can across any other interesting projects.

  • Investor · Bradenton, FL · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Brunnhilde Wijnaar We own two townhouses in Winter Garden. Great rentals. We will definitely enjoy Tulum, thank you! I'll keep you posted if we see any new exciting projects. 

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