Helppp and about to give up on Contractors

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Helppp and about to give up on Contractors

Luz Pagan
Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes

I am currently rehabing one of the house I bought. However, I notice that the project is taking so long. The Contractor we are currently working an the only one that answered in our area has delayed so much and we are behind scheduled. He told me his guys were going to be working on the house this week since all the permits have been obtained. Today, my husband went to the resident and his employees were not working, the same thing has hapend on previous weeks. 

There are so many projects that could have been done while waiting for the permits, but he promise that once the permits were in, he will have his crew will finish the project soon. Today I texted him, as well as my husband. I just want to know if this is normal for any of you guys or should I fired the guy? 

I am having so much trouble finding contractors in the area that I am investing, it is horrible. I am thinking of just hiring the experts myself, rather than hiring a General Contractor to hire the crews. I am losing money as this house is not finish yet. Any advised will be welcome! Maybe I am too desperate to finish..

1Reply
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Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD 路 Member since 2013 路 7k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Luz Pagan:

@Matthew PaulSo the question is: do you take more jobs than what you  can handle? If you take the job, do you complete it from start to finish? Or Do you jump from work to work in sn attempt to make progress in all of them?

No I dont take on more jobs than I can handle , As far as completing from start to finish , yes . BUT that doesnt mean being there every day , subs are there some days , sometimes they get delayed , inspections can take a day , two maybe 3 . The customer makes changes . We have 2 , 3 even 4 jobs going at the same time at different stages . One day I may send 1 man to your job , another you may have 4 guys . 

Of course we jump from job to job . when the drywall crew shows up , I am not going to stand there with 3 guys and watch them hang drywall . ( I will but I will be billing ) No we go and demo another job .  As a contractor I am maximizing my profit .  I am constantly reallocating resources . 

We have to deal with weather , inspectors , subs , suppliers .  Just last week , digging footers for an addition , 3/4 's of the way digging and my guy hits an abandoned septic tank . Boom , job stops , almost 2 thirds of the tank are in the addition , its a 1000 gallon concrete tank . It takes 3 days for the engineer to come out and look . A day to get prices for a crane to lift it out and arrange to have it hauled , thats now 2 weeks out . And it added 8 grand to the job .  Now I have to push back my block layer and framer .   

So now i have just added 2 to 4 weeks extra to a job due to delays beyond out control. There is nothing we can do on that job .  So now we go do a fill in job thats on the list .

This happens all the time , its a balancing act 

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  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @Caleb Heimsoth,

    Yes He was referred to me by a very well known contractor in the area.

    0Reply
  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor 路 Durham, NC 路 Member since 2016 路 7k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    8y

    @Luz Pagan you don鈥檛 want referrals by other contractors.  You want other customers 

    3Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD 路 Member since 2013 路 7k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Daniel G Blais:

    Someone had told me and keep in mind I'm a complete novice in this arena and still learning.  That you can set up a contract to incentivize the GC to get their work done by lowering the price on completion in the contract for every day they are late to the agreed schedule.   Like a late fee.  Just an idea, I dont know if its something you can do or not.

    You can try for the late fees , but you have to remember it works both ways . I have a clause in my contract covering delays due to availibility of materials etc . There is a clause that basically says " any delays that are caused by the customer or any other contractor on the job resulting in loss of time or delays or damage will be billed as an additional cost to the customer at XXXX  $ per man hour plus materials .   One of those delays can be the customer changing their mind on trim and taking 2 days to decide . That could end up being 2 men 2 days or an extra bill for 32 hours .

    Now I explain this up front to the customer and they initial this on the contract so they know .

    A bit of information .

    A professional licensed , and insured contractor is a business , they will have their own contract preprinted . It will be very detailed . They will not sign a contract provided by a homeowner or rehabber .  ( in Maryland I would be in breach of the law if my contract doesnt have all the correct info included so i MUST provide my agreement to the customer)   

    4Reply
  • Kevin Dang
    Specialist 路 Oakland, CA 路 Member since 2014 路 83 posts 路 28 votes
    8y

    @Luz Pagan

    I don't know the type of contract you have or the big the project is. You may want to see a lawyer depending on the situation you are in. Some contracts have liquidated damages, bonding requirements, etc. If the contractor is not performing to the contract set forth, you can terminate, access damages, etc.  

    But it seems that you are waiting on permits....what stage in the project are you in? Its not the contractors fault if the ball is of his court.  

    Call the city for the status of the permits. City website is never updated as quickly as you like. It takes 3-4 weeks for plans to be reviewed. 

    1Reply
  • Jeremy England
    Contractor 路 Pensacola, FL 路 Member since 2017 路 326 posts 路 157 votes
    8y

    If you do not require a bulding permit for a rehab, I wouldn't be hiring a GC.  Putting a roof on?  Roofer gets a the roofing permit.  Changing an AC unit, HVAC contractor gets that permit.  Adding a circuit?  Electrician gets that permit.  

    Now if you plan on making an addition or something major like that, yes, you'll likely need a building permit.  Depending on your state regs.  

    2Reply
  • Kiersten VogtPro Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Ocean View, NJ 路 Member since 2015 路 76 posts 路 25 votes
    8y

    @Matthew Paul is totally right!!! We own a remodeling business and while we're still small we find the same exact thing. It's difficult to juggle "weather, inspectors, subs, suppliers" and keep the guys busy all the time. So sometimes we have to have multiple jobs going to ensure we can always give a our guys as much work as they need. However, when we're doing multiple projects we let our clients know and give them an accurate time frame knowing we'll be doing multiple jobs at once. When people know from the beginning how long something is going to take they're usually fine with it... it's when other guys keep telling them one more week, one more week, no one more week that they start to get annoyed I think. 

    I'm also really big on communication! If we're not updating our clients daily, we're updating them a few times a week! 

    1Reply
  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @Kevin Dang the permit has been ready since last week Thursday. 

    0Reply
  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @Kiersten Vogt, the project started on July 1st. He told me that it was going to be completed in 3 weeks because it was just the addition. That started the Demo on that same week, but he did not submit the permit until 2 weeks after. Here we are now. However, there are other things like the kitchen, an outside wall, some minor electrical work that could be completed during that time. That is my frustration. At least I went today and they started the expansion of the room. 

    0Reply
  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @Account Closed what do you mean?

    0Reply
  • James Houlihan
    Member since 2018 路 4 posts 路 4 votes
    8y

    Luz Pagan- I am brand new on this forum. I am not an investor/rehaber yet. I am on this forum to learn. But, my day job as a controller for a specialty construction company allows me direct contact with many contractors. If you like the contractors quality, now is the best time to build the relationship. Yell at them, make then know they messed up, make them tell you why they messed up. I.e what is going on with them. Explain what is going on with you. Conflict is a good way to build a relationship. More specifically overcoming conflict is a good way to build a relationship. There are more fish in the sea certainly. But having your own fish in your own aquarium is a good thing. Hope this helps. 

    2Reply
  • Kevin Dang
    Specialist 路 Oakland, CA 路 Member since 2014 路 83 posts 路 28 votes
    8y
    @Luz Pagan structural changes? That鈥檚 work for a gc....
    1Reply
  • Daniel Burke
    Valley Springs, CA 路 Member since 2018 路 6 posts 路 4 votes
    8y
    Luz, I am running into similar issues. I am investing at a distance which compounds the issue. I finally have good boots on the ground to help manage that project. I have been rehabbing my personal house using only subs. Once you find a good sub he or she can refer you to different subs with good work ethics. In my case I have a framer who is awesome. He has referred me to an electrician, concrete guy and drywall guy. Good luck!
    2Reply
  • Bryan Devitt
    Contractor 路 Oxford, MA 路 Member since 2018 路 807 posts 路 745 votes
    8y

    Him being behind isn't a shock, him not pulling permits for 2 weeks after the demo was started is a red flag. I am sure he had to wait for drawings to be done, but you don't demo it until you are ready to pull permits. If it is an easy job then sure, drop the permit application off the day you start demo but I don't know of anyone who would demo and submit 2 weeks later. You know permits will take a week minimum unless it is a basic rubber stamp (roofing, siding, etc). I would ride it out for this one as long as the work is good enough, but I wouldn't trust them again. 

    2Reply
  • Bryan Devitt
    Contractor 路 Oxford, MA 路 Member since 2018 路 807 posts 路 745 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @James Houlihan:

    Luz Pagan- I am brand new on this forum. I am not an investor/rehaber yet. I am on this forum to learn. But, my day job as a controller for a specialty construction company allows me direct contact with many contractors. If you like the contractors quality, now is the best time to build the relationship. Yell at them, make then know they messed up, make them tell you why they messed up. I.e what is going on with them. Explain what is going on with you. Conflict is a good way to build a relationship. More specifically overcoming conflict is a good way to build a relationship. There are more fish in the sea certainly. But having your own fish in your own aquarium is a good thing. Hope this helps. 

    As a contractor, this is a good way to get put on the back burner and ghosted once the project is completed. I have had many adult conversations about jobs that weren't on time, not meeting expectations, there was miscommunication, etc but anyone who yells as me is treating me like a kid and is immediately dismissed and ignored. I then avoid any communication with them unless necessary and won't work for them again no matter how much they offer. Treat people with respect and that is what you will get back. If you have the mind set that you can treat someone like crap because there are always more of them, good luck. Most of them talk and a bad client review goes around as quickly as a bad contractor review and you will never get a call back. 

    0Reply
  • Randy E.
    Rental Property Investor 路 Durham, NC 路 Member since 2014 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    8y

     I agree.  Some of my best referrals have come from subs.  

    Ironically, sometimes one guy who is not so reliable introduces me to a guy who does something different and the new guy is incredibly reliable.  I've learned not to ask only the "good" subs for referrals.  When I need a skilled sub, I'll ask any and every sub for a referral.

    1Reply
  • Mark Sewell
    Investor 路 Houston, TX 路 Member since 2017 路 1k+ posts 路 871 votes
    8y

    I really suck at managing contractors.  I mean I am just bad, so please take anything I offer with a generous helping of salt.  

    In my total ineptitude, I learned a couple things -- do little one-week mini projects.  They like to get paid every week, and you like to control your costs.  Give them enough work they can complete in a week.  They get more work next week, but that's another scope of work entirely.  They have to complete THIS week's scope of work to get that extension.

    I bought the materials, and paid for their labor at the end of the week.  Their guy sent me a nice little quote for the weeks scope of work, and I paid it.  They learned that they could trust me enough to get paid, and I saw that I was getting some value.  I don't pay anybody for anything in advance, ever.  Did that once, and well, no more. 

    This worked for me, probably got 4-5 weeks of work done this way, and it got my project back on the rails.  

    Where did I find them?  I had some buddies that ran an insurance agency, and had a few contractor clients, so I went to them.  I figured anybody that had liability insurance was at least semi-serious about running a viable business.  Found an outfit that did roofing and exterior.  Hired them for that.  Paid them to do roof repairs, which they did, and so I extended them to do some exterior repairs, which they also completed as agreed.

    They noticed that I wasn't getting anything done inside the home during this spell (I had fired some bad actors) so they asked me who was going to do that work.  I said I was looking for somebody reliable to help me get back on track with some doors and trim work, and they were welcome to bid on a small scope of work if they were interested.  And so this is how we started.

    Honestly my mistake was to try to GC this all myself, but I was already committed by then, so I had to keep going with it.  But this approach worked.  I had to learn to break it up into little one-week manageable chunks and eat the elephant one bite at a time.

    3Reply
  • Mark Sewell
    Investor 路 Houston, TX 路 Member since 2017 路 1k+ posts 路 871 votes
    8y

    Obviously if you live in a state where you need a permit to put on a pair of work gloves and/or pick up a hammer, then you just need to hire a good GC.  No other way around that.  But in Texas you are welcome to dig your own holes (literally and figuratively).

    0Reply
  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @James Houlihan thank you for the advised. In my case I communicate woth him via text and call him when he does not answer. I treat him with respect, but I am assertive. As a New Yorker I speak my mind. I tried to assume that something has happened before I questioned him. Once he confirmed that nothing happen and he is ok, but he failed to communicate on time, then I move forward with telling him the importable of this job so I can move to the next project. BTW he has not giving me a quote for the second project since I sent him a month ago. I have called other contractors this week and by next week I should have some quotes. I am not hopefull, so I will start calling subcontractors by next week in my second project.

    On my third project I will need a developer because my husband and I will be building a brand new home. All of this could have been mu current GC projects, but he disappointed me so badly.

    @Kevin Dang yes we need a permit that is the reason we hired him. We wanted a 3rd room we told him and the quote was given to us. After the permits were obtain. He said the room was going to be very costly and said that the code department wants to make sure we are not building a new room. We were confused and told himr that is what we wanted. He then said that the cost was going to increase. We left it at that because we did not want to invest more. As you can see it has been thing after thing.

    0Reply
  • Aaron Graves
    Rental Property Investor 路 Seattle, WA 路 Member since 2018 路 2 posts 路 2 votes
    8y
    @Luz Pagan what @Matthew Paul is saying is make sure you leave room - time and budget. What looks good on paper doesn鈥檛 mean It translates in the fIeld. Expectations need to be practical based from experience and knowledge. Know your construction market. Build a sub base and learn the pace they work at. Doesn鈥檛 mean you have to settle for slow paced contractors but it may take time to weed out the ones who can be replaced. Also, find 3 of everything - GC鈥檚 and subs who you can work with. This will take time. Finally, use a contract! If you can鈥檛 mutually agree on terms, find someone who will.
    2Reply
  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @Daniel Burke yes that is the whole thing. I think he did the demo so we kind of force the project regardless of the delays, but I do not want to be tonpremature to judge. I am trying to work this job and be done with it.

    @Bryan Devitt i agree we should treat people the way we want to be treated not doubt, but he is getting in my nerves. My husband attempt to contact him and he never answer him. He reaches out to me. I guess my attitude is a little more easy to deal with.

    0Reply
  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @Randy E. yes that had happen with a couple of things we have done in out own home. Thank you for sharing your experience. It really help me to make more informed decisions 

    @Mark Sewell yes I do in state where permits are required in many things. I will try to use your advise I have a lot of contacts in the real estate business and they might be able to referred someone else.

    0Reply
  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @Aaron Graves yes that is what I did for this first investment in terms of contractors. 2 of them never answer back. 2 others indicated that they do jobs that are over 100,000 (new developments) and that they do high end maintenance jobs. 1 of them promised to send a quote and never did. I have learn that my area is full of unreliable individuals, so I have opted to find GCs in the near cities rather than where I live. It is not a matter of money on our end. We treat them very nice upon meeting them. Now today we have a contractor from another city coming in. My contacts told me that to get into the business in this area was teally hard, but once I am in, it is easy. Believe this has been an uphill struggle. Nothing like HGTV 馃槀 

    1Reply
  • Mark Fries
    Contractor 路 Jacksonville, FL 路 Member since 2017 路 1k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    8y
    @Luz Pagan You got 2 problems.. the 1st one is its a very hot market the 2nd problem you are investing in no man's land...highlands county doesn't have a lot of contractors to begin with.
    0Reply
  • Bryan Devitt
    Contractor 路 Oxford, MA 路 Member since 2018 路 807 posts 路 745 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by :

    @Bryan Devitt i agree we should treat people the way we want to be treated not doubt, but he is getting in my nerves. My husband attempt to contact him and he never answer him. He reaches out to me. I guess my attitude is a little more easy to deal with.

     He might only use one point of contact, I do it a lot with clients if they contradict each other or hound me about the same things. If he is just ghosting you because he is busy, then you can try to give him an ultimatum of either speeding progress or taking him to court for stealing your deposit without doing the work. You won't realistically have a leg to stand on in court as most laws are heavily in the contractors favor but it is worth a shot. Anyone reputable will be worried about that threat and anyone not worried about that won't do enough work to get more money out of you. Just make sure you never give any payments early and there is a large enough hold back in the end to make it worth it for them to finish. Also make sure that you don't give payment before the punch list is done or they will never come back for it 

    1Reply
  • Luz Pagan
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Highlands County 路 Member since 2017 路 87 posts 路 33 votes
    8y

    @Mark Fries,

    You are so right!! My area is very limited as far as contractors. But I am sure i will pull it off. Some ideas in here have allow me to change the game plan馃槂

    0Reply
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