WHY I am NOT building 12 additional Units on Land I already own!

WHY I am NOT building 12 additional Units on Land I already own!

Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes

I was responding to another investor's question on building and thought this might be useful for others.

Background-

-32 Unit property just west of Salem, OR which was originally permitted for 40 units, but only 32 were built (in the late 1970s) The property is in an ideal location, backs up to Elementary school field and walking to all three schools in town, parks, aquatic center. The property has had a string of mom and pop owners, has been neglected and lots of deferred maintenance, but great location, large units, lots of green space and across the street from an A property

-There is 3/4 of an acre at the back that looks directly at the field and already has utilities and permits for 8 units. The City is SUPER excited about more housing, was offering to waive zoning requirements and allow us to build 12 two bedroom units. (There is a big housing shortage in the Portland area in general.)

To Build or Not to Build-

-Initial research shows the cost to build at roughly $120-135 per sf in this location. We have good connections for materials (literally buying lumber from a mill at cost due to employees in the family).

-Utilities In

-Permits mostly done and waiver already in place

-Setback waiver in place

-Plans and engineering covered (using a local Architect that has plan sets that are already engineered for this area and stamped) Cost minimal 5k maybe total for changes and some additional material engineering.

-No street closures needed as it is the back of the existing property.

Basically, it could not be any more ideal to build. I already have the land, most of the high-cost items (utilities, permits, engineering, and architecture are all done) BUT....We are not going to build and here is why.

If I can buy at between $85 and $110 per SF for in place, including the land, then the building would have to generate returns higher in proportion to account for the value of the in-place structure AND the land AND the price difference between buying and building.

for 12 units, that would mean=

Land Value = $250k (probably low for a lot that you can build 12 units on)

Cost different between building and buying (middle number used) = 12 x 850SF= 10,200 SF x (125per SF- 100 per SF) = $255,000.

This means that the value of that 12 unit building would have to be $555,000 MORE than an in place 12 unit. We are in contract on a 20 unit with similar SF build in 1989 in a better area (larger town), and we are paying $94,500 per door and $111 per SF (brand new roof, middle of town, etc). If we build new units in the other area will rent for about the same as these. There is just no way that I can justify building new units which would cost (when assigning land value) $140,750 PER door when I can buy at $94,500 per door.

At some point, the in-place values will get closer to the building costs (economy will slow some, materials may come down some, and in place will increase more) and at that point, I am building.

DO NOT let ego get you into a bad deal...the desire to be a "developer," or to have the newest property, etc. I am also omitting the flipping hassle of building (anyone who has done any before knows what I am talking about.)

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y

those build cost seem very high for apartments.. we are building nice new homes with upgrades for about 100 a foot maybe tad more.. not including land. Metro PDX.  And salem area always seems a little lower. 

I would think apartments in that area would cost more like 75 to 80 a foot to build /  is this the Monmouth area ?

for all the reasons you point out is why in many areas of the mid west etc you see next to no new construction 

unless its in suburbs and A properties..  existing is far less than replacement.

when your buying a 1400 sq ft rancher in the mid west for 80k all in .. cant really justify building new in those areas.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    those build cost seem very high for apartments.. we are building nice new homes with upgrades for about 100 a foot maybe tad more.. not including land. Metro PDX.  And salem area always seems a little lower. 

    I would think apartments in that area would cost more like 75 to 80 a foot to build /  is this the Monmouth area ?

    for all the reasons you point out is why in many areas of the mid west etc you see next to no new construction 

    unless its in suburbs and A properties..  existing is far less than replacement.

    when your buying a 1400 sq ft rancher in the mid west for 80k all in .. cant really justify building new in those areas.

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs I need to get your building connections!  I imagine you are doing a lot of volumes or something or that there are other controls on costs that for whatever reason I can not get (which figures as it is a 1-time job, have to hire a general, not my own crews etc.

    Close, it is in Dallas (OR) so near Monmouth but less expensive in general.

    Maybe there is some secret I just do not know, I can not even get near $100 a SF to build.  I have some engineering and architectural changes in there that might not be needed but might be depending on the eventual build and inspections, so I am hesitant to take them out, but even then, on low-end finishes, I cannot get below $110-115 a SF.  My guess is it is scale (i.e. 12 units isn't very big) and a one time job and that it has to be two buildings, not one due to zoning.)

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Richard Sherman:

    @Jay Hinrichs I need to get your building connections!  I imagine you are doing a lot of volumes or something or that there are other controls on costs that for whatever reason I can not get (which figures as it is a 1-time job, have to hire a general, not my own crews etc.

    Close, it is in Dallas (OR) so near Monmouth but less expensive in general.

    Maybe there is some secret I just do not know, I can not even get near $100 a SF to build.  I have some engineering and architectural changes in there that might not be needed but might be depending on the eventual build and inspections, so I am hesitant to take them out, but even then, on low-end finishes, I cannot get below $110-115 a SF.  My guess is it is scale (i.e. 12 units isn't very big) and a one time job and that it has to be two buildings, not one due to zoning.)

    well I don't know.. although I had a 120 unit site I owned in Lincoln city.. that was going to build out and it did not pencil AT ALL  rents simply are not high enough to justify new builds..  we ended up replatting to 80 townhouses in clusters of 3 to 4.. 

    could be your subs are having to drive from Salem.. I ran into this when I built 3 homes in Seaside.. my bank basically would have given me 30 lots they had.. and I tried 3.. but the build cost created a non profit situation and I don't need the practice.. the locals were double what I would pay in the Valley.. when I built out in Hood River we could get guys to run up the gorge from Gresham Troutdale no problem but it was also 5 years ago when pricing was a lot lower..   but hey its nice to know you don't have to build.. if things get super slow you can reprice.. and then maybe it works. good job on the lumber though we got hammered with it last year.

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs I was just listening to one of the podcasts and realized it was you!  ahaha.  Awesome.  I think I know that site in Lincoln City possibly...did you run into some crazy issues with the city wanting a ton of area improvements?

    I think it is probably a combo of an outlying area, not anyone there I would trust to do it, Salem being busy (as is the whole valley) and it being something of a smaller build.  I agree the land has value and a good option for the future.  I have had good luck finding as much as I want to buy at decent prices as long as I am ok doing some work on them, which is fine...so I will keep buying until it doesn't make sense to.

    I appreciate the insight! 

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Would a condo conversion work (with the intent of bumping up your place as well)?

    But I'm with you on the new construction, going to wait till things slow down and people need work.... everyone to busy and the pricing reflects that right now..

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @Matt K. probably not in this market.  It is possible but I would rather take the long-term rents and put the money to work elsewhere than roll the dice on chasing a larger capital gain especially with the market possibly slowing down in this area.

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Richard Sherman:

    @Matt K. probably not in this market.  It is possible but I would rather take the long-term rents and put the money to work elsewhere than roll the dice on chasing a larger capital gain especially with the market possibly slowing down in this area.

     With out getting way into the weeds lol, wonder if there was a break even point where you sold x ammount to drive down the cost of new construction so it's worthwhile...

    Really just thinking aloud here the effort, time, and risk probably kill any deal anyways.

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @Matt K. If it was in a better market then probably, but I agree, I think the risks outweigh the benefits.  There are PLENTY of other deals out there...I am going to look at a 10 unit priced at $95 a SF that ALSO has room for another 4 units this coming week...and I think I can get the price down some...typical mom and pop rents at 70% of the market and not raised in years.  Too much other options out there to get overly creative on what I have...but there will come a time....oh yes, and then we will be ready..bwahahahahh!  ;)

  • Property Manager · San Bernardino, CA · Member since 2014 · 473 posts · 238 votes
    7y

    Thank you for the breakdown. Your feasibility analysis is very helpful to people like me trying to develop property.

    Is it possible that It may be worth the construction if a bank is willing to loan to you based on the value of the existing units? Without having to put any of your own capital into the project, it may make sense.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Richard Sherman:

    @Matt K. If it was in a better market then probably, but I agree, I think the risks outweigh the benefits.  There are PLENTY of other deals out there...I am going to look at a 10 unit priced at $95 a SF that ALSO has room for another 4 units this coming week...and I think I can get the price down some...typical mom and pop rents at 70% of the market and not raised in years.  Too much other options out there to get overly creative on what I have...but there will come a time....oh yes, and then we will be ready..bwahahahahh!  ;)

    wait a minute there are no deals on the west coast :) 

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @David Friedman I get your point, and this is one of my worries about financing...when the money is easy and someone else's then we have a tendency to not treat it with as much care.    I have to assume that my ability to borrow is going to be limited and I should thus put every dollar to work in the most efficient manner possible, right now that will be buying in place and fixing management and maintenance issues.  There will come a time to build when the economy slows and we have a bit of a cooling off period in the area I am in where I can get reasonable construction prices again.

    @Jay Hinrichs Sure there were times when values were lower, but rents were also lower.  I know you are making a point and I agree!  People just have to get out there and look, it might be smaller secondary markets, but those are my favorite anyways as there is less competing inventory, less competition for deals and less chance some big guy like yourself is going to come plop down a 200 unit building on the next block  ;)!!

  • Property Manager · San Bernardino, CA · Member since 2014 · 473 posts · 238 votes
    7y

    @Richard Sherman

    I think it takes someone as seasoned as yourself to not take every bit of dollar offered to you. Some dollars are worth more than others as you’ve explained. Thank you!

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @David Friedman   I appreciate the compliment, it is also good advice.  Early in your career you can not get financing or it is hard, as you get more experience and get better at getting returns you become a better bet and the financing is almost thrown at you (assuming deal makes SOME sense...and sometimes makes NO sense and they will still do it.)  You hit at a very good rule of thumb 

    " Do not assume that because a bank will loan you money that it is a deal you should do."....that goes for a lot of things in life...cars, wedding rings, houses etc...

  • St. Louis, MO · Member since 2018 · 20 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    Great post, had to read it a few times but enjoy how you broke the numbers down and showed this isn't the best use for your $. Bummer almost everything came together but it didn't line up.

    Is your land value assuming that someone else would be interested in the return a new-build would have on the land, unaware that they could be getting a better return elsewhere? Seems to me rent would have to rise significantly and sf costs decrease for building to make sense assuming you are able to find a similar in place deal next time you were considering a build.

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    @Grant H. Thanks, I could have been a bit more clear for sure and will do better next time explaining my thought process.

    I attribute value to the land in order to get a more apples to apples comparison for the decision vs. buying an in place building.  I can not just use SF costs as with the in place I am ALSO getting the land, so I need to attribute SOME value to my cost of the land..i.e. I was more willing to buy that property because it was 3/4 of an acre larger, even if I do not build on it now, it does have value and at some point someone will  build on it.

    I actually do not think this is a bummer at all, I am absolutely fine with having a BETTER place to put money and at some point the graphs will cross and building will make sense.  It is good to have options!

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