Did I Mention I HATE The Stock Market?......

ARRT, RT(R) / Rental Property Investor · Newport Beach, CA · Member since 2017 · 360 posts · 242 votes

Not sure if I mentioned that today. Yes, I am 100% invested in Index Funds , and yes, I am staying the course (Probably take years to recover the losses), and yes I believe in "Buy and Hold". It just stinks to see tens of thousands of dollars evaporate before your eyes, day after day after day.

2019 cometh!!! Come 2019, I will be dumping 95% of my investments in REAL ESTATE, at least it takes time to lose money, if there is a loss. Ugh, learning, growing, licking my wounds... Thoughts on today? (The good news is, my offer got accepted and I just purchased my first parcel of vacant land, a really beautiful lot with a view! Maybe I will buy a tent and go live on the lot. Ha!)

How is your day? :)

~Daniel!

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Bryce LitwinPro Member

Danville, PA · Member since 2015 · 58 posts · 58 votes

The only thing I hate about the stock market right now is that I don’t have more money to invest right now while stocks are on sale☹️ I’m hoping the (bear market) sale persists until at least February/March... I should have some extra cash by then...

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Clinton Fisher
Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 23 votes
7y
@Craig Jeppesen During the last two recessions stocks lost 50% of their peak values. The average over most recessions has been about 40%. The prices may be down now, but there's a lot further left to go. I'd advise buying well valued stocks now and holding out for another year possibly longer for the real fire sale. I have seen zero indication of a Powell put, unlike Bernanke, Greenspan and Yellen who all felt that the Federal reserve should be the stock market hero. I wouldn't count on Powell following suit, this may be a case were age has the wisdom of having seen a little bit more over youth.
1 Reply
Josh Nigh
Boise, ID · Member since 2017 · 50 posts · 64 votes
7y
@Eric Carr you don’t mess with stocks? But you mess with crypto? Wow.
3 Reply
Adrian StamerPro Member
Real Estate Investor & Agent · Richmond, VA · Member since 2013 · 319 posts · 167 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Josh Nigh:

@Eric Carr you don’t mess with stocks? But you mess with crypto? Wow.
Crypto a bit further down then the stock market this year it seems...
0 Reply
Michael H.
Rock Hill, SC · Member since 2015 · 104 posts · 209 votes
7y
@Josh Nigh that’s exactly what I was thinking! Ya know, because crypto never goes down.
1 Reply
Josh Nigh
Boise, ID · Member since 2017 · 50 posts · 64 votes
7y
@Adrian Stamer no doubt! bitcoin down about 80% this year. I hope People at least averaged down. Its not timing the market that’s important, It’s time in the market that counts. A lot of “ investors” approach stocks like day traders. Crypto on the other hand is an extremely risky endeavor and entirely different animal.
Quote from The WB.... “be fearful when those are greedy and be greedy when those are fearful”.
4 Reply
Craig Jeppesen
Rental Property Investor · Chubbuck, ID · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 466 votes
7y
@Clinton Fisher bring on the 40% decline. That is when you make money. Have you ever heard of dollar cost averaging and not timing the market ? It seems you are doing both backwards. I am a long term investor and don’t care about recessions or prices going down more. I buy every two weeks and will until I die. The same goes for real estate, but I don’t care about prices until I sell which I won’t for a long time and when I do I won’t be selling everything at once but have a long term strategy for that as well. Fear is what is causing the sell offs and volatility and that is when wealth transfers from those that are scared to savy investors.
3 Reply
Eric Carr
Real Estate Broker · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 658 posts · 293 votes
7y
@Adrian Stamer @Josh Nigh
Volatility doesn't scare me, whether it's going up or down doesn't scare me, I am looking at the long term possibilities
0 Reply
Eric Carr
Real Estate Broker · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 658 posts · 293 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Josh Nigh:

@Adrian Stamer no doubt! bitcoin down about 80% this year. I hope People at least averaged down. Its not timing the market that’s important, It’s time in the market that counts. A lot of “ investors” approach stocks like day traders. Crypto on the other hand is an extremely risky endeavor and entirely different animal.
Quote from The WB.... “be fearful when those are greedy and be greedy when those are fearful”.
It's only down 80% from all time highs just 12 months ago. It's up 400% from 24 months ago, and so on.
It's definitely a different animal, only being in existence since 2009, but over the past 9 years, it has outperformed just about anything I can think of.
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Eric Carr
Real Estate Broker · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 658 posts · 293 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Indeed. It's something you have to believe in long term, HODL, and don't look at the charts every day. But as I've mentioned, I've never seen anything perform as it has from its beginnings in 2009.

If someone had bought $10K worth when it was a dollar less than 10 years ago, they'd be sitting on $40m today.
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Daniel Banic
Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 8 votes
7y
Ha Ha , I would'nt worry too much , be like billioniar Carl Ichan , hold and buy on good companies with good long term yield. It's kind of wierd to got into index funds , most of those hedges don't know what ther're doing. Good solid company stocks will always go up in the long run if you pick the right ones yourself instead of trusting some hedge guy. if your into short term money in the stock market , options and spreads are always the way to go but you have to know how to do that and as the market is going crazy volitile the past few months especially now , you can make a killing.
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Clinton Fisher
Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 23 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Craig Jeppesen:

@Clinton Fisher bring on the 40% decline. That is when you make money. Have you ever heard of dollar cost averaging and not timing the market ? It seems you are doing both backwards. I am a long term investor and don’t care about recessions or prices going down more. I buy every two weeks and will until I die. The same goes for real estate, but I don’t care about prices until I sell which I won’t for a long time and when I do I won’t be selling everything at once but have a long term strategy for that as well. Fear is what is causing the sell offs and volatility and that is when wealth transfers from those that are scared to savy investors.
Sure I've heard about dollar cost averaging and if you're in your twenties or thirties that might be a very viable way to invest in the stock market, but I'm in my later years and I'm not going to have the time to average a big-*** decline that's coming in the next year or two. many people just entering the market for the first time would be wisest to sit on the sidelines it's always at the peak of a market where the newbies get creamed.
My treasuries have outperformed the s&p 500 in this past year and there's a lot of big investors like Warren Buffett are sitting on the sidelines with loads of cash. But then I guess he can't time the market either he just knows that deals that meet his criteria are few and far between.
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Account Closed
Lender · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2017 · 658 posts · 626 votes
7y
The end of the world (as we know it) is the next big thing. Always has been. Always will be.
BusinessWeek: The Death of Equities (August 13, 1979)
3 Reply
Angelo Van
Specialist · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 4 votes
7y
Im very very new to this, yet very interested. I myself have no RE yet but i have some money at an investment bank of which 5% is RE. The overall portfolio did not make profit this year. Not sure whether RE contributed negatively or positively to the overall result, but maybe it’s just not a good year. Were your results better last year too? Mine were positive last year.
1 Reply
Daniel F. Harb
OP
ARRT, RT(R) / Rental Property Investor · Newport Beach, CA · Member since 2017 · 360 posts · 242 votes
7y
Thank you, @Account Closed! Hope you are doing well, and good to hear from you. :) I am like you, a proponent of diversity, I believe in the Stock Market, LONG TERM, and investing in tangible RE. I am just happy I am in Index Funds, as opposed to individual stocks, it sits well with me to capture the WHOLE market. Many years ago, like many others I am sure, I was invested in all high tech stocks and watched $117,000.00 go to $5,000.00 super~fast. It was painful!!!
But, welcome to the world of investing! To become wealthy , one has to take (Calculated!) BIG RISKS!
Merry Christmas, everybody! $$$
Daniel F. Harb, ARRT,RT(R)
4 Reply
Eric Nurmi
Specialist · IL · Member since 2018 · 47 posts · 42 votes
7y
@Adrian Stamer - you can lose even If you dont sell. If the company closes down you lose. But in real estate you still have a physical asset.
1 Reply
Adrian StamerPro Member
Real Estate Investor & Agent · Richmond, VA · Member since 2013 · 319 posts · 167 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Eric Nurmi:
@Adrian Stamer - you can lose even If you dont sell. If the company closes down you lose. But in real estate you still have a physical asset.
Of course though much easier to diversify in the stock market to avoid this too. Real estate is geographically locked and can easily face economic obsolescence overtime.... and also much more expensive and harder to diversify
I am heavily invested in real estate but the 100 year historical data available for the stock market is a lot more reassuring for its long term stability then any sort of data available for real estate. When investing long term while real estate throws off larger returns which I enjoy, if you need it for 30,40,60 etc years then who knows if your market will Detroit itself.
1 Reply
Daniel F. Harb
OP
ARRT, RT(R) / Rental Property Investor · Newport Beach, CA · Member since 2017 · 360 posts · 242 votes
7y
Yikes, @Adrian Stamer, the "Detroit Effect". Scary.
Best!
0 Reply
Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Upland, CA · Member since 2018 · 42 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Daniel F. Harb I’ve been using an ETF to short the market for the last few weeks. It’s done pretty well (>20%). I’ve still taken some losses as I am a buy and hold stock market investor as well. It has been nice to watch my investment increase as the market fell!
1 Reply
Charles H.
Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 94 posts · 39 votes
7y
I hate it too. While I study the companies and the trends, it never makes sense because the overall trend will bring down or up everybody. One day, a company while have great results goes down because some analyst from JPM said "eh i am not impressed". Luckily i only have 30k on my 401k, but i am glad i am investing my cash in real estate. That's why we are all here i guess.
1 Reply
Mike G.
Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2016 · 589 posts · 275 votes
7y
@Frank Wong
The thing with the stock market is you have zero control. The fundamentals may look great the PE looks great the index charts look great but when there are more sellers than buyers none of it matters. In its simplest form, the stock market is driven by liquidity. What you have seen in the last 3 months is not by chance. Rising rates + QT + declining earnings.
I have traded the market for 17yrs and have been following it since I was 15yrs old looking up charts at my school library. I am no expert but I have 22k hrs of screen time of experience. The number 1 rule in stock investing is to manage your risk and to use stop losses. If you are not using stops you are essentially gambling. This is the one thing you have control of.
The main reason why I think real estate is the best investment is more control. Plain and simple.
Frank, I couldn't agree more frankly!!!!
1 Reply
Casey Maeda
Rental Property Investor · 港区, Tokyo · Member since 2018 · 61 posts · 42 votes
7y
@Daniel F. Harb people talk about diversification, have a bit in the stock market and RE. That's bs. I sold my position in the stock market including 401k money all to invest in RE - thank god. I'm diversifying my position investing in different types of RE to hedge risk by buying cashflow properties, syndication deals and invest in appreciation markets with not so much cashflow in different parts of the globe. Perhaps you can adopt a similar strategy...good luck!
1 Reply
Daniel F. Harb
OP
ARRT, RT(R) / Rental Property Investor · Newport Beach, CA · Member since 2017 · 360 posts · 242 votes
7y
Wow, @Casey Maeda. Interesting information. I'm just yammering on because the market has been funky for the last three months. Thankfully, my time horizon is 20 years plus, so this is just a blip on the radar. I hear what you are saying, but for me , being invested in Index Funds, as well as RE, has done well for me and is pretty balanced.
I hope and pray 2019 is a nice strong year for all of us!
Best of profits! $$$
~Daniel
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George Blower
Retirement Accounts Attorney · Southfield, MI · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Daniel F. Harb
Luckily retirement accounts such as IRAs and 401k plan can be directly invested in real estate.
@Kelvin Deloney
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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
7y
I know some people that diversify and others all real estate 100%. It's all they do. You can be 100% in real estate but still be diversified within it among different deal sizes and asset classes.
For me stocks is just too much drama. I just focus on real estate day in and day out plain and simple. It's what I understand, it's what I love, it's what I am great at.
I like physical assets. I do not like paper where companies can have multiple sets of books and one day you have a 100 dollar bill and the next stock worth toilet paper. Some investment bankers and family offices talk about diversity and that can make sense if someone has a very basic knowledge of different asset classes of investment types. If someone is an expert and lives it and breathe it daily they can get a much higher comfort level allocating much higher percentages to a certain type of investing. I actually am getting lots of investors exiting the stock market. They can't stomach the daily fluctuations and like hard assets with set leases and knowing what they are getting for return in the commercial space. It helps them relax on a daily basis instead of hinging on every bit of news that affects the stock market and how the herds are reacting buying and selling on any particular day.
These investors those typically already have 8 figures of wealth so want long term equity growth and wealth preservation without the headache.
I do have a friend in the stock market with 8 figures there. He just keeps buying long term and that is his thing and then he dabbles in real estate on the side. Different strategy for everyone just like I do not like residential at all but some investors think it is fantastic.
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Sam Shueh
Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Diversification is the key to success. With stocks one click is done lose or gain. With RE in areas of rapid appreciation or depreciation 6 months can go by with no offer or low ball offer.

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