Almost Lost $24,000 on BRRRR, Instead Made $8,000

Almost Lost $24,000 on BRRRR, Instead Made $8,000

Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes

My numbers showed a conservative ARV of 3/1 rancher in Richmond, VA at $135,000. All-in costs including repairs, title, legal, lender fees, etc. was $108,000. I developed a relationship with a new bank with great portfolio products and was excited to work with them.

Renovation was completed 2 weeks after closing. Refi was underway with the appraisal 1 week later. Appraisal came back at $105,000!!! The bank sent a note saying they would only refinance 80% of $105,000. I was slated to lose $24,000 on an expected breakeven BRRRR.

After a small heart attack, I reached out to a few RE professionals in the area and the general response was "That sucks!" when hoping for a solution.  I remembered a few situations on BP podcasts where guests spoke about respectfully understanding the appraiser's methods, communicating your misunderstanding, and presenting appropriate data to support a revaluation.  Solely because of that podcast or two, I did just that.

Appraiser was willing to revaluate and came back a week later with an appraised value of $145,000.  The closing date is set, and I'll be paid $8,000 after paying off the private money and all other costs and have 20% equity in the home.  Mortgage will be ~$800/month and rent is $1250 with a two year term already in place.  

I write this because I would have taken a huge loss if I didn't know any better. There was no "option" to contest the appraisal. I might have left the bank completely, which had a great product and people. Luckily, the numbers were there and things worked out alright with an increase of net worth of around $35,000 in about a month with $0 of my own money invested on one SFH. Thanks BP!

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Rental Property Investor · Savage, MN · Member since 2016 · 202 posts · 61 votes
7y

Hi @Stephen Glover, that is a great example of being persistent and not just putting your hands in the air and giving up. 

I too recall a previous episode or two stating that if your respectful and understanding of the appraiser that sometimes they will re-appraise/revalue the property due to something they may have missed. 

I'm glad everything worked out for you in the end. 

Good story, thanks for sharing! 

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  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Kelly Pierce  I didn't want to go into much detail in the original post on that, but I have a great network of folks in RE in Richmond.  Out of the few people I called, 2 very experienced investors answered and just didn't have experience contesting an appraisal and said I could go to a different bank, or make it up on the next deal. After remembering podcast #314, I put together all my data and was in touch with the bank within a few hours.  Over the next week, I got a couple of return calls from realtor friends eager to help me contest it but it was already underway.  I move quick, so I would have ate the loss or moved to another bank by then.  Luckily I didn't do either!

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Andresa Guidelli Thank you for dropping into this post!  I contribute the $24K savings to your BP podcast episode.

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Minnae Chabwera @Maurice J. @Tyrone Harris

    Thank you!  Appreciate the support.

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Justin Dyer what neighborhood were you looking in?  Definitely reach out next time you come back.  Build in time to grab coffee and we can review neighborhoods, rents, tenant demographics, etc.  I can make some local connections if you need those as well.

  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I have 14 years of mortgage appraisal experience. Your appraisal is going to be a crap shoot. It depends on the lender and what sorts of appraisals and appraisers they choose and select, and it depends on the individual appraiser who ends up doing the order. Your story is an anomaly, contesting the appraisal rarely works - also, changing a value so dramatically shows how bad of an appraiser you got.

    My advice to everyone is this: be careful of your personal valuation. One comp does not a market make. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Once you have done your work on the front end and purchase the property, prepare yourself for the appraiser and be there when the come. Provide a list of all upgrades since purchase. Provide a number of comps to them that you believe are comparable, with sale prices reflective of typical market value (not outliers, not atypical sale terms). Finally, if you have multiple offers, provide the appraiser with all of them. That is something that the realtor is forbidden from doing, but the seller is not bound by those rules.

    Last is to not pressure the appraiser in any way. Simply provide your data, and yes, it is ok to provide your opinion of value however, do not try to engage in a discussion about value, the appraiser is forbidden to do that with you (they can only discuss that with the named client, which is the bank, not you).

  • Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Great Job Staying Positive and Sticking to your Guns 💪

  • Contractor · Spokane Wa · Member since 2018 · 25 posts · 30 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover

    That’s outstanding!!!

    Yes I remember those episodes!

    Glad you brought that back up and highlighted it again.

    Pure gold!

    You used that brain during a stressful time. I tell people everyday to sit back and use that brain we were given.

    No need to stress because then we have 2 problems to deal with now.

    The problem, and the stress.

    No need for that.

    Great thinking sir!

  • Chantilly, VA · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover we were checking out some properties just north of Broad Street. Ideally, we would like to be close to VCU, but we are open to other areas. Definitely open to your input on neighborhoods.

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover That's great news. You were lucky. Most appraisers won't admit to being that far off on a valuation. What particular points were you able to challenge them on?

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Mike D'Arrigo I didn't challenge them on anything specific, just submitted my complete and thorough analysis and let them do what they wanted with it. I knew many points where they were missing the mark, but I didn't call them out on specific areas. Wanted to tread as lightly as possible. I think once they saw the renovation list to include many thousands of dollars in CapEx they understood they didn't have enough information before the original valuation, so they quickly agreed to revaluate. The list of information I provided is in this thread on page 1 if that helps.

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover  Glad that worked out. You always want to give the appraiser a copy of the scope of work when they come out.

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 28 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Thanks for sharing your story! 

  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2021 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Hi Stephen, Thank you so much for sharing your story. It's great to know that a BRRRR can work out even with a major bump in the road.

    I am also in the RVA area and intend to begin my Real Estate/ BRRRR journey as early as this fall.

    Happy to talk other real estate or general RVA topics with you anytime! Thanks, Brandon Jump

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