Almost Lost $24,000 on BRRRR, Instead Made $8,000

Almost Lost $24,000 on BRRRR, Instead Made $8,000

Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes

My numbers showed a conservative ARV of 3/1 rancher in Richmond, VA at $135,000. All-in costs including repairs, title, legal, lender fees, etc. was $108,000. I developed a relationship with a new bank with great portfolio products and was excited to work with them.

Renovation was completed 2 weeks after closing. Refi was underway with the appraisal 1 week later. Appraisal came back at $105,000!!! The bank sent a note saying they would only refinance 80% of $105,000. I was slated to lose $24,000 on an expected breakeven BRRRR.

After a small heart attack, I reached out to a few RE professionals in the area and the general response was "That sucks!" when hoping for a solution.  I remembered a few situations on BP podcasts where guests spoke about respectfully understanding the appraiser's methods, communicating your misunderstanding, and presenting appropriate data to support a revaluation.  Solely because of that podcast or two, I did just that.

Appraiser was willing to revaluate and came back a week later with an appraised value of $145,000.  The closing date is set, and I'll be paid $8,000 after paying off the private money and all other costs and have 20% equity in the home.  Mortgage will be ~$800/month and rent is $1250 with a two year term already in place.  

I write this because I would have taken a huge loss if I didn't know any better. There was no "option" to contest the appraisal. I might have left the bank completely, which had a great product and people. Luckily, the numbers were there and things worked out alright with an increase of net worth of around $35,000 in about a month with $0 of my own money invested on one SFH. Thanks BP!

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Rental Property Investor · Savage, MN · Member since 2016 · 202 posts · 61 votes
7y

Hi @Stephen Glover, that is a great example of being persistent and not just putting your hands in the air and giving up. 

I too recall a previous episode or two stating that if your respectful and understanding of the appraiser that sometimes they will re-appraise/revalue the property due to something they may have missed. 

I'm glad everything worked out for you in the end. 

Good story, thanks for sharing! 

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  • Rental Property Investor · Canton, OH · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    I would certainly be interested if the property was in my area.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Jay Hinrichs

    I would certainly be interested if the property was in my area.

    I did a few thousand of these projects pre 08 its how turn key was sold when you had a robust refi industry. when refi died and went through the pearly gates in 08 that changed everything.. and thats one reason RE prices crashed the way they did.

    this worked best for out of area investors who did not want to take the uber risk with rehab and all the work it takes to try to build this mystery team.. I already had the teams in place.  

    it wont work in all markets you need to get some pretty great deals on the properties and we did that in those days.. 

    also i need to get with refi mortgage brokers to make sure we can get our borrower pre approved on the front end so there is no surprises at refi time..  in my day our average full circle deal went 91 days..  Fun times for us until as stated refi market froze up like antarctic.. we are now in global warming so refi's are while not as easy as then at least for WELL qualified borrowers they happen every day now.. which is a great thing and has strengthened the markets and created some appreciation as well. 

    Send me a PM your not the average person who would use this I think i can give you the recipe and you can do it yourself.. this program is more for the investor looking to get started in owning cash flow investments..  

  • Rental Property Investor · Sebring Florida · Member since 2009 · 61 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Thanks. Sorry I missed that from previous comments.

  • Washington, DC · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    7y

    Hey Stephen. I've been looking at Richmond as an investment market as well. It's a great city and I live within 2 hours. What neighborhood was this in?  Thanks!

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs the idea of having a valuation already set by an appraiser subject to a reinspect after the work is complete is pretty slick! Definitely an unconventional way of thinking.  I like it.

    A Turn Key BRRRR sounds like a dream come true...

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Mike Celli Sandston, plenty of opportunity in other neighborhoods around Richmond as well. Not on the MLS, but through relationships mostly. Just put an offer on 5 more homes 2 days ago with the same plan in mind. They are mostly located in the Southside. If you visit RVA let me know and we can grab coffee. If you need good connections in Richmond I can try to help with that as well.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    Even if you had refinanced at 80% of $105K, you wouldn't have lost $24K, you would be down $3K and even then only if you sold it at that price.  

    I'm glad you were able to pull all your money back out.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Stephen Glover:

    @Jay Hinrichs the idea of having a valuation already set by an appraiser subject to a reinspect after the work is complete is pretty slick! Definitely an unconventional way of thinking.  I like it.

    A Turn Key BRRRR sounds like a dream come true...

    Yup looks like I have to go back to the future its how 90% of the turn key was sold Pre 08 people think this BRRR was just thought up and invented on BP in the last few years.. nothing can be further from reality.. its an old accepted practice that was the back bone to HML ing pre 08.

    the question i need to get answered is the pre approval take out.. so i dont get stuck with a BRRR buyer that cant refi. If thats a risk then you need to continue to risk your own money not mine LOL

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Theresa Harris Something is off on your calculation.

    80% of $105K is $84,000.  I owed my private money lender $108,000. 

    $108,000-$84,000= $24,000.  I would have spent $24,000 to pay my private lender, losing $24,000 on the opportunity where I thought I would break even.  

    After the revaluation at $145,000 I am pulling out $116,000.  So after paying my private lender, I'll be on top $8,000 (before taxes, etc etc).

  • Washington, DC · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs  I think that might be something up my alley. Hit me up if you decide to move forward with that!

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs My private money used to require me to get a pre-approval based on the projected ARV from 2 different banks that I would consider for the refi before lending the money for the purchase. It wasn't set in stone from the banks, and the buyer could always fudge up their finances between the purchase and the refi, but that was probably as good as it gets. It proved I was bankable based on the ARV, and that I had the relationships in place.

    Seems like if anyone could create the systems for it, it would be you.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Stephen Glover:

    @Jay Hinrichs My private money used to require me to get a pre-approval based on the projected ARV from 2 different banks that I would consider for the refi before lending the money for the purchase. It wasn't set in stone from the banks, and the buyer could always fudge up their finances between the purchase and the refi, but that was probably as good as it gets. It proved I was bankable based on the ARV, and that I had the relationships in place.

    Seems like if anyone could create the systems for it, it would be you.

    yup i put a team together.. the key to it is the take out lender.. and when i bring a take out lender 20 files a  month or more that keeps everyone in the game..  

  • Mandeville, LA · Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    I listened recently to a podcast and learned the same thing!  I believe it was a podcast with @InvestorgirlBritt

    In my case, I had a purchase agreement for $112k, and the appraisal came in low at $108k, when I was expecting $120k.  It worked to lower my purchase price, so I decided to go with it, bc it made my numbers work better - even from the 1% rule standpoint.

  • Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover nicely done! Do you know how they changed the appraisal I.e. they missed a bedroom or gave the foundation a better grade?

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2012 · 257 posts · 68 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glove

    That's awesome!!!!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Bellevue · Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Superb!

  • Paul DefnginPro Member
    Lender · Rockville, MD · Member since 2008 · 498 posts · 199 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs I imagine a lot of people would jump on this, especially knowing that they have your long time experience and backing.

  • Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2017 · 295 posts · 229 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover congrats on the refi! I’m about to start researching lenders to refi one of mine in Richmond.. what lender did you use?

  • Andy FernandezPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    Thank you for sharing your experience. This is a good example of BP community support. 

    Thanks.

  • Realtor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2019 · 61 posts · 21 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover fantastic and thank you for sharing. I’m disappointed in my fellow realtors for not helping more. They easily could have helped you pull comps and help show the appraiser how they were off in their numbers. Way to handle it though!!!

  • Rental Property Investor · Sterling, VA · Member since 2018 · 32 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover thank you for sharing!

  • Investor · Otsego, MN · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 29 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover what an amazing story! Thanks for sharing. This is the true meaning of being an investor, not taking no for an answer and asking the right questions. Cheers

  • Victorville, CA · Member since 2019 · 42 posts · 20 votes
    7y

    @Stephen Glover Congratulations Sir!

  • Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes
    7y

    @Amy H. DM me, I'll connect you.  I know a few good ones (there are many) but I particularly like this bank's product.

  • Chantilly, VA · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    Nice work. My wife and I went to Richmond last Saturday to look at a few condos. Unfortunately, after checking the numbers, they would have been negative cash flowing $148/ea when factoring in the cost of HELOC payments. I liked the location, but the comparable rents were lower than expected. We are going to stack some cash up and take another look soon. We will reach out the next time we go back to RVA.

    Again, nice work. 

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