Seller counter-offered. Help Analyzing this BRRRR Deal!

Seller counter-offered. Help Analyzing this BRRRR Deal!

Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes

Strategy: Buy & Hold, Live in for 2 years, remodel it while living in it, then move out.

I've been all excited since I "found a gem" but now after running number over and over and over again I break-even only if I manage it myself after moving out.

The property needs the following:
- Flooring - Currently it has a stinky-smudgy carpet

- Cabinets - Old, falling apart, discolored stain

- Countertops - Currently it has laminate jagged up counters

- Outside-Inside Paint - Stucco needs to be painted on the outside. Inside is dirty, discolored walls.

- Bathrooms - Super dirty bathtub, toilets.

Single Family Home Purchase Price: $355,000 

FHA: 3.5%

Mortgage: $2200

Rent: $2400

Comps Avg: $370,000-$440,000

Rehab Cost: $20,000

Is it a good Deal or Bad deal? 

Before moving ahead and accept the counteroffer I wanted to be sure that I'm getting myself into something that its worth it. 

This would be my 1st BRRRR, so I'm a bit nervous before jumping in.

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Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y

@Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda First thing that pops out here is the rent to purchase price ratio as well as the purchase price itself. 

One thing I'd want to bring to your attention when you do move out and try to do refinance, the interest rates are going to way higher than 3.5% of the FHA, and the interest rates for investment properties will wipe out any cashflow and may lead you into the negative real. 

You never want to be paying additional rent with the tenant for your mortgage. Not a nice feeling...😟

Really your initial intuition was right, as when you start to run numbers over and over again you particularly want to listen to your gut and RUN 🤗

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  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Martin Tyler:

    keep looking bud, numbers aren't quite adding up. you're gut is telling you to run, and it's right most of the time.

    I just want to be sure it is a good Deal and I’m not being carried by the Investor-motion lol!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 439 posts · 578 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda:
    Originally posted by @Tanner Marsey:

    Sounds like a good deal... in Southern California.

    Where is this property located? I don’t know if I would convert the garage. A huge reason people rent a house over an apartment is the garage space and the yard space.... remove those and you’ve shrunk you’re potential tenant pool by a lot. I would go for it. Give it five years and you’ll be glad you did. Plus you’ll be living there for 2.... rents will rise over that time period. Appreciation could be a factor.... time will tell.

    I believe historically properties keep appreciating in our area (except for 2008-2010) I’m focusing in the Inland Empire close to my residence.

    Thing is, previous owner insulated the garage already and put carpet. So, “minor” remodeling would be needed.

    I would agree with you in regards to prices and rents raising. Doubt you’ll ever see them trend downward over long periods of time.... lots of people moving out that way. 

    I think this could be a midiocre deal right now that could end up being a great deal 5 years from now. Also, take everyone’s advice lightly but be super weary of the advice given by people that don’t live/operate in your market when it comes to Southern California.... it’s a whole different animal here.... 

  • Investor · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2013 · 658 posts · 315 votes
    7y

    As a fellow Californian I can say you have your head in the right place.  Live in it, rehab it yourself, rent out rooms, convert the garage.  You have to be creative to make it pay for itself, then hold onto it for appreciation of rent and value. 

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    @Brant Richardson

    Unless I had 250K sitting in the bank would be a way different story. You got it right, trying to be creative to at least break even with rentals where the market is now.

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    @Tanner Marsey

    Oh yeah, it makes me want to invest in the midwest and get those houses for $30,000 that rent for $800! It’s just a dream here.

  • Lender · Irvine, CA · Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda

    This definately sounds like a property in Riverside lol!

    I'll just add what BP hosts always say, no deal is better than a bad deal. Fall in love with the numbers, not the property.

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    @Alonso Escalante

    Then you know what a deal looks like here at this point time...

  • Rental Property Investor · Martinsburg, WV · Member since 2017 · 111 posts · 81 votes
    7y

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda what are you currently paying for living space? Do you rent?

    I've read a lot of the comments and while this isn't the deal of the century, it could be a good starter home in a desirable location that you'd be able to rent for more than you pay when you decide to upgrade it branch out.

    Personally I'd look for a duplex if this is your first place in order to take full advantage of the FHA loan, but I realize those aren't common or cheap in CA.

  • Rental Property Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 214 posts · 132 votes
    7y

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda

    1800 sq ft floor - Wood look Vynil floor $2000 USD

    70 sq ft Corian/Solid Surface - $1200 USD 

    Cabinets Hardware- $200 USD

    Refacing Cabinets- $3000

    Paint Outside - $800

    Paint Inside - $400

    Total+35% unexpected repairs- $10,000

    Is your repairs estimate just for materials?

    $1 per sqft vinyl installed sounds to cheap to be true or at least too cheap to be quality.

    If the cabinets are falling apart, will refacing keep them alive?

    Paint seems way too cheap and something I typically hire out since the labor is usually cheaper.

    If it’s dinghy, sounds like you offered too high to start. Rescind your offer and try again in a month maybe. Good luck.

    If it looks like work, many will be put off. Make it worth it with a lower offer.

    -Justin’s

  • Rental Property Investor · Shakopee, MN · Member since 2015 · 985 posts · 374 votes
    7y

    Although the numbers are probably a little closer than I like.  It wouldn't be terrible to get you started.  You could always rent out a room to help lower your cost.  Banking on appreciation is always a gamble, but it could potentially pay off in the long run.

    You might consider putting in a lower offer.

  • Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda find a better property

  • Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda your arv and rent estimates seem to be a little optimistic to me if this is in the Riverside area.

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    @Nathan Hall

    I rent for $1750+utilities. 2 bed, 1 bath house with garage and huge backyard. Duplex would be my first option if I found a Duplex in B- area/calm neighborhood. Most of the ones I've found so far are in C+, C- areas in my area. After buying the house I'll jump into a Duplex and expand the search within a 25 min drive from me. Average type of duplex I like here goes for around 500K.

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Justin V.:

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda

    1800 sq ft floor - Wood look Vynil floor $2000 USD

    70 sq ft Corian/Solid Surface - $1200 USD 

    Cabinets Hardware- $200 USD

    Refacing Cabinets- $3000

    Paint Outside - $800

    Paint Inside - $400

    Total+35% unexpected repairs- $10,000

    Is your repairs estimate just for materials?

    $1 per sqft vinyl installed sounds to cheap to be true or at least too cheap to be quality.

    If the cabinets are falling apart, will refacing keep them alive?

    Paint seems way too cheap and something I typically hire out since the labor is usually cheaper.

    If it’s dinghy, sounds like you offered too high to start. Rescind your offer and try again in a month maybe. Good luck.

    If it looks like work, many will be put off. Make it worth it with a lower offer.

    -Justin’s 

    Correct, I'm just accounting for materials as I've been in the remodeling business for over 2 years already and have somehow the knowledge to get it done. I work for a countertops company as my full time job, so I get a big discount for material as well.
    One of my buddies who has a remodeling contracting license specialized in cabinets will help me revitalizing those cabinets as a way for him to start with his business & have a project to show for future customers.

    About painting I will consider sourcing that out if it's not that expensive. 

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Aaron K.:

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda your arv and rent estimates seem to be a little optimistic to me if this is in the Riverside area.

    I took the rent from Zillow Rent comparing houses nearby. Maybe it is off.

  • Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda:

    Strategy: Buy & Hold, Live in for 2 years, remodel it while living in it, then move out.

    I've been all excited since I "found a gem" but now after running number over and over and over again I break-even only if I manage it myself after moving out.

    The property needs the following:
    - Flooring - Currently it has a stinky-smudgy carpet

    - Cabinets - Old, falling apart, discolored stain

    - Countertops - Currently it has laminate jagged up counters

    - Outside-Inside Paint - Stucco needs to be painted on the outside. Inside is dirty, discolored walls.

    - Bathrooms - Super dirty bathtub, toilets.

    Single Family Home Purchase Price: $355,000 

    FHA: 3.5%

    Mortgage: $2200

    Rent: $2400

    Comps Avg: $370,000-$440,000

    Rehab Cost: $20,000

    Is it a good Deal or Bad deal? 

    Before moving ahead and accept the counteroffer I wanted to be sure that I'm getting myself into something that its worth it. 

    This would be my 1st BRRRR, so I'm a bit nervous before jumping in.

    Run Forrest, Run!

  • Brookfield, WI · Member since 2016 · 191 posts · 108 votes
    7y

    Keep looking for your BRRRR, but you could look at the flip potential on this one, depending on ARV and comps...run the numbers that way and see if it works.

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    @Joseph Walsh

    Hmmm. Good point. Will run the numbers...

  • Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda Zillow rent is pretty bad in the Inland Empire if working with a realtor have them run rental comps for you.

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    @Aaron K.

    Comps for a 4 bed house that size is 2100-2400.

  • Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda yes because age, finish level, and location also matter.  Mid 2000s build in orangecrest and that is a $2,700+ rental.  1910s in Downtown more like $2,000-$2,200.  Something that has jerry-rigged additions even less

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    @Aaron K.

    I see, so the likelihood of renting the property at 2400 is less. Thank you for the input

  • Rental Property Investor · Martinsburg, WV · Member since 2017 · 111 posts · 81 votes
    7y

    @Alfonso Aramburo Zepeda I'd probably aim for one of the C-class area duplexes, but I might have a higher tolerance for stuff than you. You'd own it, so you'd pick your neighbor, if not the neighborhood, and when you moved you cash flow a lot better. A bit of austerity now could give you a leg up in a couple of years when you expand.

    And honestly what is the difference between B- and C class, honestly? Especially when talking about duplexes. Using commercial terms for non-commercial properties conflates things imo.

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