Please advise: potential nightmare

Please advise: potential nightmare

Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 83 votes

Hello everyone,

Happy New Year to you all!

I am currently working overseas but have been watching a property in my neighborhood and waiting for it to come onto the market. The ARV is $60k, will rent for $800/mo, and the property was finally listed for $30k. I told a realtor I sometimes use that I wanted to have it inspected immediately and then I would hopefully write an offer. He went out to the house and found there was a 4 number combo lock on the door and he had a 3 number combo.

We tried to get the combo for a week with minimal response. The company dealing with the property (out of state) had it locked up. I told him fine, write an offer for me, BUT make it contingent upon the inspection (before someone else grabs it.) My mother signed the documents and I wired the earnest money. He said no problem and he finally told me my counteroffer of $27,500 was accepted on Christmas Eve. For the last week he's been out of touch and lazy. He has been very slow to respond to emails and told me not to worry and it was the slow time of the year.

This morning I woke up (Jan 1st) to an email stating that he is "very sorry" and it's "his fault," because he "wasn't paying attention and hasn't been into his office for over a week," but we have now gone through the 10 day inspection period and I can no longer back out without losing my earnest money. He wants to know if I "want it inspected still" or if I "just want to go ahead and close." I haven't even seen the inside of the home yet and was trying to tie up the property until I could get it looked at by a professional.

I put $2500 earnest money down. What would you do in my shoes?

Thanks,
Ben

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Real Estate Consultant · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y

Yeah I would have your realtor reach out to them as if you both know the inspection period hasn't yet began because you've been trying to get the correct combo since __________, 2012 (the date you first contacted them for the combo). If they're a big company they will likely not even blink and instead go through the steps to giving your realtor the correct combo.

Once thing I've learned about incompetent people: they will cost your BIG $$$ - Best to get rid of them as soon as you've seen that they're incompetent.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 83 votes
    13y

    Bienes Raices That's exactly what I've communicated to him. I refuse to lose $2500 because you were asleep at the wheel.

  • Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ben Siegelbaum:
    Bienes Raices That's exactly what I've communicated to him. I refuse to lose $2500 because you were asleep at the wheel.

    Ben,

    I made an an offer on a bank-owned property a couple of years ago and the bank took two weeks just to get the water turned on at the house. I asked my agent if this would cause a problem with my seven day inspection period and she told me no, they would need to wait until. the water was on for the clock to start on the 7 days. I believe this was in REO addendum (that utilities had to be on).

  • Real Estate Consultant · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ben Siegelbaum:
    I just wish that it hadn't gotten this messy.

    Welcome to real estate investing, as well as to business and even life for that matter. It was Martin Luther King Jr. who stated "the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

    The same can be said of a real estate Investor. The best and only thing to do after situations like these is to draft or change your procedures/processes where something like this doesn't happen again. Thus it has to be a lesson learned as opposed to a mistake repeated often. Sounds like you're on your way to getting this resolved.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 83 votes
    13y

    That is the truth! Hopefully I'm getting this mess out of the way at the beginning of the year so I don't have to deal with similar circumstances later. The more deals you do the more likely you are to run into snags--comes with the territory for sure.

    I've been trying to think of ways I could have avoided this situation and I honestly can't. I had contingencies in place, accepted offer, was in constant communication with my realtor, etc. I guess it just goes to show you can't prepare for everything. This is a new one to me.

    I liked what was said about incompetence costing major money. This is so true. This year I'm going to strive to find the most competent people I can. This community is a wonderful asset I'm very thankful for.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    In inspection make sure next time to have business banking days and not calendar days.

    It's one thing if the broker/agent told you for the 20k price they are making only 600 bucks before business expenses and it's not enough to want to do the business.

    I know some buyers who will agree on a minimum commission with the broker or buyers agent and make up the difference from what the seller is paying on these low deals. Sometimes the bank will offer a good minimum though of 1k to 2k even on a low priced property to move it.

    If you listen closely this broker/agent sounds like from what you have posted to have a track record of excuses. That is different from someone who is on point but makes a rare mistake and takes swift action to fix it.

    You need to see if this is a broker or agent first and then if they are a REALTOR or just hold a license in that state. If they are not a REALTOR than usually you cannot levy ethics charges and you have to instead take up things with the real estate commission.

    Before all of that you can approach the head broker for the company.

  • Lexington, KY · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ibrahim S:
    Originally posted by James Vermillion:
    I am not saying I would never work with the agent again, because mistakes happen...

    James - knowing your high standards when it comes to work ethic, and seeing the timing of your post in relation to Ben's, I'm sure you too didn't get a chance to read the full email by his Realtor before posting. I'm shaking my head so much my neck hurts :)

    BTW Ben - you should be able to get the seller to cut the utilities on so you can have a full inspection before purchasing.

    Wow! You are 100% correct Ibrahim S...I did not see the email from the agent. And its true, the response is far worse than the original oversight. As soon as finished this deal (if it closes) I would find myself a new agent. I value relationships a lot, but I expect the other person in the relationship to value it as well.

  • Lender · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2012 · 147 posts · 76 votes
    13y

    I'm sorry to use the "A" word here. But I'd be inclined to do one of three things first. 1) Get advice from an attorney, or 2) Get advice from an attorney, or 3) Well, you get the picture.

    37 years of experience in real estate brokerage and buying and selling tells me......... I'm not qualified to figure out this contract/default stuff.

    Joffrey Long

  • Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Great debate. There are two separate issues: the deal and agent's services.

    If the deal is a great deal, take it off the market. I'd go thru with the inspection, irrespective of the timeline, however.

    Or you could play a stall game, tie it up with a lis pendens, make the agent sweat, etc.

    I think you do, as buyer, have to take some risk and assume a bit if responsibility. When you're out of area, you're now depending on others for virtually every facet of the transaction. As buyer, you've counting on everything to go together perfectly. Sometimes, it doesn't.

    Inspection timelines are negotiated rather than statutory. This means that your written offer must have referenced this, even if a customary timeline is used. Unlike a rescission period, calendar days would include all days, weekdays, weekends, Sundays and Holidays.

    Obviously you received sub-par service from the listing agent. However, not much gets done during the Holidays. It's an American tradition, it seems.

    As for the listing agent/broker, that's why transaction coordinators earn their money even when an agent doesn't. If the agent had told you that they were not going to be working much over the Holidays, it would have signaled you to monitor the deal more closely.

    All things considered, I've acquired almost every property that I own now or have owned in the last 10 years without benefit of inspection. I allow for a percentage of error on every deal. Sometimes I make mistakes; sometimes it's the other guy/gal. I don't lose sleep over it.

  • Real Estate Broker · Flower Mound, TX · Member since 2012 · 58 posts · 30 votes
    13y

    What I don't get is how did the agent not know that the inspection period was 7 days and not 10 days? Being the Buyers Agent wasn't he the one who drafted the PA? If he did indeed draft the PA and is now saying that he didn't know what was in it then this is extreme incompetence. I would run, not walk, away from this guy.

  • North Miami Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    Ben, I would back out, unless you badly want the house. It was not your fault that the realtor does not schedule the inspection. The house probably in bed shape in need the work. It is only the reason for the game. Regarding your deposit, do not worry, any good attorney will get it back. Good luck! Igor G.

  • Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by David T.:
    What I don't get is how did the agent not know that the inspection period was 7 days and not 10 days? Being the Buyers Agent wasn't he the one who drafted the PA? If he did indeed draft the PA and is now saying that he didn't know what was in it then this is extreme incompetence. I would run, not walk, away from this guy.

    And the holiday/calender day excuse seems pretty lame as well. Even I know that it's usually calendar days (at least for REOs). If the agent didn't know which it was he should have checked at the beginning of the process.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2012 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    Ben,
    As a REALTOR in Tennessee i am embarrassed to hear about how a fellow licensed real estate agent treated you. No excuses for what happened IMO. The inspection timelines are basic elementary tasks. I would be looking for an agent who is concerned about you as a client for life.

  • Durham, NC · Member since 2012 · 498 posts · 48 votes
    13y

    For my own house, the inspection wasn't even relevant to the realtor. I found the inspector and ordered the inspection.

    For my investment properties, I haven't spent a dollar on inspection. One time it was an REO online (blind) auction. I was a little bit nervous because I couldn't even see the unit. But my realtor said I need not worry and he himself would inspect the unit after close if I won. He said he knew the hotel management so well he could get them to fix things if needed. It turned out that a closet door was broken.
    The hotel management replaced it for free.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 83 votes
    13y

    Joel Owens I agree with you. I had the intention to reward this agent if he brought me great deals and I definitely would have. As it stands now, he has worked two property deals for me. One he brought me and one I found myself. Between both deals, one HUD and one BoA foreclosure, he's made at least $2000. To earn that, he spent maybe a total of 5 hours making phonecalls, emailing me, and doing paperwork. He didn't even show to the closings. I may not be factoring in other elements of the equation, but I see him as grossly overpaid for the service he's provided.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 83 votes
    13y

    There's one thing I'll just put out there. We have a lot of professionals on this board and people who are serious about what they do. I really respect that. I respect anyone who is passionate about something. It shows a desire to do more than what the average person calls "good enough."

    That said, I'm a professional in my field. I make a good living because I go above and beyond and have developed a great deal of knowledge, experience, and relationships. People know I work hard and am reliable. Those of you earning a great living in real estate know this to be true. Getting a license is the entry-level step. There are people who earn millions a year and there are those who close a house a month and make excuses.

    I believe in giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and a fair shot. Sometimes people don't give you the fair shot you give them, and that's when it's necessary to cut them lose ... or keep them around and suffer the consequences. I will not be using this agent again.

    Finding agents that actually respond to emails, answer phonecalls, and have an idea what cash flow is seem to be a rarity. Out of 20 agents I contact, I get a few calls or emails back, and maybe 1 will correspond long enough to do a deal. I don't understand why this is, but I'm making it my mission for 2013 to find someone who fits the bill.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 83 votes
    13y

    Update:

    After a "strongly worded letter" I now have the agent trying to rectify the situation. He has contacted the listing agent, sent a volley of emails, and is bringing up the questions he should have been bringing up all along.

    He was out at the house in the early morning on new year's day taking pictures of the OUTSIDE and still doesn't have the code. This is still pretty unreal. He now says he DID put 10 days to inspect in the PA... he must have been confused. We still have no access to the property. He's trying to get an extension and is asking me (and my mother!) if I'm mad at him? I don't need a friend; I need a professional. This is just business to me. How awkward.

    I hope this works out. Lesson learned.

  • Fukuoka, Fukuoka · Member since 2012 · 148 posts · 29 votes
    13y

    Sorry to say, but the initial email, and now the last response (STILL don't have the code??? "Is he mad at me"???) all point at a highly unprofessional, lazy individual...if he's part of a reputable agency, inform his superiors so that they have a chance to improve their usiness (because it sure doesn't sound like he's going to better himself, if he's now concerned with your personal impression of him instead of focusing on what he can do to rectify the situation, and what he can learn from it moving forward).

    As for your money, not being an attorney it's extremely hard to say, but considering you've got written admission of fault, it sounds pretty straight forward - only a question of whether it's worth your time to pursue financially and time-wise (if it ends up costing you $800-1,500 in legal fees and three weeks of your time, for instance I'd say no).

    Of course this is only if you end up pulling out because there was no inspection possible or you ended up finding something you don't want to live with during that inspection.

    As a side note, the fact that he still doesn't have the code may be a warning sign that all is now well with the seller side as well - no one can be that incompetent (although, with all you've described there may be an exception here ;))- just make sure you get that inspection done, because it's starting to sound like there might be something they're trying to hide from you. Might be paranoid, but being remote (and probably not a plumber, electrician or builder, but I'm just guessing), an internal issue of magnitude could cost you far more than those $2,500.

    Would be very interested in hearing how this all turned out - good luck, stay firm, and DEFINITELY ditch that guy, I'd say.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 83 votes
    13y

    The inspection was canceled because he still didn't have the code. Finally got it last night and found a lot of drywall punch holes and a sink ripped off the wall in the bathroom. I guess that's why they didn't want the water turned on.

    Overall, no big issues from initial pictures and impression. Having a regular inspection and a close friend look at the property tomorrow. It looks like it may work out for the best. I'm definitely ditching the agent though.

    Thanks, everybody.
    Ben

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    Ben I will tell you WHY so many agents do not return calls or e-mails and only a select few do.

    The reason is they enter the field dreaming of big money and then find out work is involved. Many do not even like real estate but do it out of necessity and resent it. 90% of new agents do not make it a year and within 5 years those that made it a year 80% of those have left the business.

    Now take the select few who actually LOVE what they do. I get excited everyday about commercial real estate. I get up in the morning looking forward to talking with people about deals or making investments. It's not something I loathe or try to avoid. It is something I embrace and crave more of. I want to get better every single day so that when I work with a client I am giving them the best I possibly can in expertise.

    There are people in this world who simply want to exist and collect a check and be mediocre and then there are people who want to push the limits and see how many amazing things they can accomplish with their life.

    You want to surround yourself with people wanting to do amazing things and not people who just want to be another number lost in the herd of the masses.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 83 votes
    13y

    Joel Owens I couldn't agree more. I've never been one who wants to do anything by half. I'd rather go 110% of not do it at all. I have no time for Debbie Downer types and the market we're in right now is a really exciting one.

    I think maybe this would be a great topic for a new thread... how to find an agent who you can see eye to eye with. Maybe I just need to interview every single one in my neighborhood. As I've found out yet again, some can talk the talk, but that's where their (lip) service ends...

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