Newbie Investor - Where to Invest?

Newbie Investor - Where to Invest?

Investor · Anchorage Alaska · Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 0 votes

Hey everyone,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but figure would ask here :-)

I've been a big fan of BP for a while and have started saving money for my first property. I have a property now that I became an accidental landlord of (read: no cash flow but tenant pays the mortgage) when I became a digital nomad. It's not a huge hassle so I keep it around and might refinance it (to get rid of the MIP). Likely would have to do repairs first to do that though.

My big questions reading the BRRR strategy is related around finding a solid market for me to invest in for my criteria. Not sure if this is reasonable critters though.

Here it is:

1. Can buy a property needing repairs for $30-60k and spend $10-40k on repairs.

2. ARV $100k-$150k to do the cash out refinance

3. Cash flow at or close to 1% of ARV (imagine this is the 1% rule not that it would cash flow 1% of the initial cash buy)

4. Preferably no flood zones or other hazards

5. Locale with population growth and preferably no one job sector making up the lionshare of labor (I’m from Alaska and it’s dominated by the oil industry which ain’t great at the moment)

My long term plan is to buy 2 per year and scale that up over 5–8 years for an early retirement (I make fairly good money to buy and once I know what I’m doing think with the refinance can buy a lot more than 2 per year).

So where are good areas to look at doing this?

I’m not exactly asking for deals, but I would like to start analyzing deals to get some practice in the general vicinity where my criteria makes sense.

Imagine it’s the Midwest somewhere but where?

Also, any advice on how to practice analyzing deals? Just look on Zillow or Redfin and use those deals as my practice?

Ideally would like to buy mainly in one solid city/area for economies of scale with property management and other things.

Still learning so hopefully this sounds realistic and appreciate the feedback :-)

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Investor · Anchorage, AK · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 133 votes
6y

Hi @Greg Elfrink,

BRRR strategy works well just about anywhere but is a time-intensive activity until you get to the refinance stage. House hacking multi-units would work well, and if you want a fixer-upper, apply for an FHA 203k loan. Predicting growth can be very tricky and takes a lot more economic knowledge (not theory) than anyone takes in 8 years of college. I might be playing to your bias as someone in the technology space, but given the secular trend of capital concentrating in technology companies, try to buy near their headquarters if you are looking for appreciation. If you are looking for cashflow, that's on the other end of the spectrum. Just about anywhere in the south, strong cashflow can be found. I would argue though, that you should buy where you want to live.

Looking at your numbers, they are extremely low for most markets with appreciation above 2% per year. Given your short term goal of 5-8 years, just buy for cashflow and think about what kind of tenant you'd like to rent to. Also, remember the number of units isn't really the goal, it's the ratio of dollars per headache. For me, that means keeping the number of units low, but the rents high. Best of luck and cheers to your journey!

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  • Investor · Anchorage, AK · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 133 votes
    6y

    Hi @Greg Elfrink,

    BRRR strategy works well just about anywhere but is a time-intensive activity until you get to the refinance stage. House hacking multi-units would work well, and if you want a fixer-upper, apply for an FHA 203k loan. Predicting growth can be very tricky and takes a lot more economic knowledge (not theory) than anyone takes in 8 years of college. I might be playing to your bias as someone in the technology space, but given the secular trend of capital concentrating in technology companies, try to buy near their headquarters if you are looking for appreciation. If you are looking for cashflow, that's on the other end of the spectrum. Just about anywhere in the south, strong cashflow can be found. I would argue though, that you should buy where you want to live.

    Looking at your numbers, they are extremely low for most markets with appreciation above 2% per year. Given your short term goal of 5-8 years, just buy for cashflow and think about what kind of tenant you'd like to rent to. Also, remember the number of units isn't really the goal, it's the ratio of dollars per headache. For me, that means keeping the number of units low, but the rents high. Best of luck and cheers to your journey!

  • Investor · Anchorage Alaska · Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Connor Dunham good advice I hadn’t thought about multi family with that style of loan.

    I could hold off for longer (maybe mid to end of next year) and have $120-160k saved up and buy larger. Was hoping to get into something smallish to kind of test the waters so to speak.

    I was thinking somewhere in the south to avoid winter weather on the properties. I'm not as interested in appreciation as I am in cash flow and able to recycle the down payments using the BRRR strategy, but appreciation is always nice. My long term plan is just buy and hold forever more or less.

    Maybe I should go up higher on the budget, my quick looks at Zillow have given me hardly anything for me to do some fake deal analysis on haha.

  • Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City · Member since 2020 · 46 posts · 35 votes
    6y

    Hey @Greg Elfrink,

    Start with an area that matches your goals. The Midwest and other areas of the U.S. can offer BRRR strategy with ARV of 150k, if that is what you are going for. Starting off, I would recommend turkey or light repairs unless you have good knowledge on rehab.

    Since you are out-of-state, you'll need to start building your core team to be able to invest. Deal finder, property manager, contractor, lender.

    Zillow is good, but you'll need to focus on an area or have advice from someone in that area to give you an idea of what a good property looks like. On paper, it might look good, but in reality, it could be a warzone.

    Good luck!

  • Investor · Anchorage Alaska · Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed one issue I am running into is actually deciding on a market. I've been looking at a few areas, but just not really sure where to begin. So far looking at Forth Worth Texas, Southbend Indianna, Nashville, and looked a bit at Oklahoma City (looks like you're from there?) 

    Ideally, I want to be all-in on a property no more than $100-120k after rehab. I can reasonably save up this month in 8-12 months. Any advice from your experience on solid markets? I feel like I'm asking where I can steal your deals when I ask that haha, but it is nice to "zoom in" a bit so I can learn just one area. 

    One other thing I've been thinking of is looking for good sized towns/cities with hospitals and military bases as I'd figure rentals around those two would do fairly well I'd imagine 



  • Property Manager · Windsor Locks, CT · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Greg Elfrink Listen to podcasts and read a lot here. You will find the same areas mentioned often. Columbus and Cincinnati seem to be the two most popular that I see. Personally, I prefer to invest locally in CT. Is there any reason in particular that you do not want to invest in Alaska? I understand that it may not have a huge population throughout the entire state, but I figure that there are still folks that need rentals.

    Having your real estate local is really, really, nice.

  • Rhett TullisBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 617 votes
    6y

    @Greg Elfrink seems okc checks alot of your boxes.  not that i really want more out of state folks buying here but i have been happy with things here overall.  I have found the market to be pretty stable here, nothing amazing in one direction or the other but just stable.  lots of properties you can get in the price range you are looking or just really comes down to the type of property and area you want to stash your money in.

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Id agree Oklahoma City fits what you are looking for perfectly

  • Brandon GoldsmithBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    It sounds like you are off to a great start. For out of state investing I recommend forming a quality team in the area. I am sure you will be able to meet the right people through BP and gain a wide variety of knowledge from them. Talking to local realtors and lenders would be beneficial to start and help guide you in the right direction.

    As far as markets go I can say that Columbus has had a lot of success overall and there are many parts of the city that can be invested in for cash flow or appreciation. Best of luck in your search! @Greg Elfrink

  • Robert EllisBusiness Member
    Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Greg Elfrink:

    Hey everyone,

    Not sure if this is the right place to post this but figure would ask here :-)

    I've been a big fan of BP for a while and have started saving money for my first property. I have a property now that I became an accidental landlord of (read: no cash flow but tenant pays the mortgage) when I became a digital nomad. It's not a huge hassle so I keep it around and might refinance it (to get rid of the MIP). Likely would have to do repairs first to do that though.

    My big questions reading the BRRR strategy is related around finding a solid market for me to invest in for my criteria. Not sure if this is reasonable critters though.

    Here it is:

    1. Can buy a property needing repairs for $30-60k and spend $10-40k on repairs.

    2. ARV $100k-$150k to do the cash out refinance

    3. Cash flow at or close to 1% of ARV (imagine this is the 1% rule not that it would cash flow 1% of the initial cash buy)

    4. Preferably no flood zones or other hazards

    5. Locale with population growth and preferably no one job sector making up the lionshare of labor (I’m from Alaska and it’s dominated by the oil industry which ain’t great at the moment)

    My long term plan is to buy 2 per year and scale that up over 5–8 years for an early retirement (I make fairly good money to buy and once I know what I’m doing think with the refinance can buy a lot more than 2 per year).

    So where are good areas to look at doing this?

    I’m not exactly asking for deals, but I would like to start analyzing deals to get some practice in the general vicinity where my criteria makes sense.

    Imagine it’s the Midwest somewhere but where?

    Also, any advice on how to practice analyzing deals? Just look on Zillow or Redfin and use those deals as my practice?

    Ideally would like to buy mainly in one solid city/area for economies of scale with property management and other things.

    Still learning so hopefully this sounds realistic and appreciate the feedback :-)

    It sounds like Columbus, OH would be a good fit for you.  You can purchase at that price and get a 1% return, excellent population size, great job opporunities, etc.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2019 · 956 posts · 600 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Greg Elfrink:

    @Account Closed one issue I am running into is actually deciding on a market. I've been looking at a few areas, but just not really sure where to begin. So far looking at Forth Worth Texas, Southbend Indianna, Nashville, and looked a bit at Oklahoma City (looks like you're from there?) 

    Ideally, I want to be all-in on a property no more than $100-120k after rehab. I can reasonably save up this month in 8-12 months. Any advice from your experience on solid markets? I feel like I'm asking where I can steal your deals when I ask that haha, but it is nice to "zoom in" a bit so I can learn just one area. 

    One other thing I've been thinking of is looking for good sized towns/cities with hospitals and military bases as I'd figure rentals around those two would do fairly well I'd imagine 


    It's tough to pull it off here. The deals are scarce and the numbers are tight. It's easy if you're working with the right people to lock down 8% cap rates in C class areas. In some of those opportunities you can do a light rehab and push cap rates/cash flow significantly, but it won't be worth a refinance. Normally here if you're out of state and looking to BRRRR you're going to be be absorbing both sets of closing costs and leaving 10% of the ARV in the deal instead of 20%. So, you're getting to leave a bit less in the deal, but if you have any hiccups that could quickly dissolve.

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 258 votes
    6y

    I agree with @Brandon Goldsmith. Building a great team on the ground is extremely important. In the markets of interest, reach out to local professionals who can give you insight and feedback. Start analyzing as many properties as you can, even if you don't intend to buy, so you can get used to running the numbers etc.

    Regarding Columbus, obviously biased because I live here, it is a great market. OSU is the second largest university in the country, which spurs a lot economic growth in and of itself - especially considering the supporting OSU hospital system. We also have a diverse industry base - insurance, tech, apparel, e-comm- to name a few. Many of the neighborhoods around downtown have plenty of opportunity to hit those numbers you're looking for, with value add. 

    There are a ton of reasons why Columbus is a great market; however, I think it's important to evaluate markets based upon your individual goals.

  • Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I agree with the above comments, Columbus, OH sounds like a good fit for that criteria @Greg Elfrink!

  • Investor · Multiple · Member since 2019 · 175 posts · 150 votes
    6y

    @Greg Elfrink, Columbus is a great market for sure. I am also an OOS investor and enjoy the range of properties available there. Single Family homes (SFH) and many different types of multifamily in gentrifying areas. Not to mention, opportunity zones, and tax credits for rehabs in certain areas.

  • Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City · Member since 2020 · 46 posts · 35 votes
    6y

    @Greg Elfrink,

    Markets from what I heard other investors look into would be Columbus, Memphis, Little Rock, and Kansas City.

    I'm biased for OKC, but it will all depend on your goals as an investor and if the market matches your criteria.

  • Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Mikael Winkler

    I would like to learn more about Columbus as an out of state investor

  • Rental Property Investor · Eugene, OR · Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    As far as practice analyzing deals, I would highly suggest as exercise, run through deals in your current market, or any market you’re intimately familiar with. 
    Even if they have no possibility of cash flowing. You need to get good at one system of analyzing so when you look at other markets you can see your blind spots. 

    Accurately estimating cash flow requires two things, income and expenses. I'd argue that expenses are what you're most likely to have trouble accurately estimating in a market your not familiar with. PITI are constant and easy to estimate. Snow removal, flood insurance, unique heating and cooling costs, vacancy and CapEx are very nuanced by location. You simply don't know what to underwrite if you don't understand the area.

    For example I can analyze a deal in Eugene Oregon (where I understand rent and expenses) in less than a minute and have a pretty good idea of cash flow. I’m moving to Fairbanks AK in a month and I have no idea what actual monthly expenses would be. So I’m working with people in the area who can help me underwrite correctly 

    Starting practice in your area where you know What’s what will get you asking the right questions when you start to look at other markets. Try the four square method or whatever system that works for you but gets you writing it down on paper and forcing you to ask “what extra things will I have to pay for each month besides the mortgage”.

    Just remember if you’re looking for cash flow, you won’t spot a good deal by the purchase. You’ll spot it by correctly estimating expenses and income. These numbers get you to your purchase price. It’s about how much someone will pay you to live there and how much you have to pay to keep them paying you. 


     

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Perry L.:

    @Mikael Winkler

    I would like to learn more about Columbus as an out of state investor

     I am an investor in Columbus but I know hundreds of out-of-state investors that purchase in Columbus. What do you want to know?

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 258 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Perry L.:

    @Mikael Winkler

    I would like to learn more about Columbus as an out of state investor

    Well, being on here is a great start to network with those in the Columbus market. @Remington Lyman is definitely a great resource, with a ton of knowledge. Something else I think would be valuable - start reading some of the local papers. The Columbus Dispatch, Columbus Business First, Columbus Underground. These are all great resources to learn more about real estate/development projects going on, but also to learn more about the city in general. The vibe, where things are happening, etc. I think you'll find there's more to Columbus than most out of towners think! Now, these publications may have a cost, but it's minuscule in comparison to the bigger picture - especially if you're serious about the city. But, I believe they also have some free content, as well. 

  • Real Estate Consultant · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2020 · 23 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    Indy is BORING! That's why this is a great city to invest. No volatility here, just safe and easy investments!

  • Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Haha, I'm sold @Luke Stewart!

  • Rental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    6y

    @Greg Elfrink I've heard newer investors say that Ohio was hard to jump into. They felt rushed by their providers. Not to talk badly about the providers, I'm sure they were just matching the urgency of the market. There seems to be a lot of competition causing the pace to be in overdrive. It's a bit scary to anyone, especially an entry level investor to walk almost blindly into a deal. That said with risk comes reward. I've found a lot of success working in a more stable market following systems that eliminate pain points like that, but it doesn't allow the crazy upside that you may see in Ohio, just stable returns. 

    I think for someone more comfortable making quick cash offers Ohio could be a great fit for you. Good luck! 

  • Linda LabbePro Member
    Investor · North Bay, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 709 posts · 262 votes
    6y

    I live in Ontario and in vest in Ohio  to date have invested in Toledo and Dayton finding great deals in both cities and no huge rush. The numbers are great and the secret is to have strong teams on the ground, Without great teams to partner with out of are investing would be impossible, More then willing to chat and share what I have learnt.

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Linda Labbe:

    I live in Ontario and in vest in Ohio  to date have invested in Toledo and Dayton finding great deals in both cities and no huge rush. The numbers are great and the secret is to have strong teams on the ground, Without great teams to partner with out of are investing would be impossible, More then willing to chat and share what I have learnt.

     Have you looked into Columbus, Ohio?

  • Rental Property Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2019 · 24 posts · 35 votes
    6y

    As an OOS investor, I believe you can be successful with the right team in place.  I am currently investing in Columbus with an outstanding team. I purchased, rehabbed and leased my first property in less than 3 months.  My son is currently under contract for a duplex in Columbus as well.

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Anne Marie Kodama:

    As an OOS investor, I believe you can be successful with the right team in place.  I am currently investing in Columbus with an outstanding team. I purchased, rehabbed and leased my first property in less than 3 months.  My son is currently under contract for a duplex in Columbus as well.

    Are you using your property manager to project manage the rehab? If so do you plan on doing that forever or will you get your own contractor? I know people talk about core 4 (Realtor, lender, contractor and property manager)

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