Consistently being blown off by REA's
Most Popular Reply
Joseph CacciapagliaBusiness Member
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votesIf you're running into this consistently, then there is probably a problem with your approach. Most agents have been burned by would-be investors that ask tons of questions, waste a lot of their time, but never actually close a deal with them. Many decide not to deal with new investors at all, and others become much more selective with whom they choose to work with. Depending on the type of properties you're looking at, you may be asking for more information than the typical seller is willing to provide. This varies greatly by market, property type, and price point.
42 Replies
- Investor · MD/DC · Member since 2020 · 37 posts · 43 votes6y
@Terry A., there are a lot of valid comments from everyone. This boils down to two competing interests at play:
1. You want to know as much as possible before you make an offer
2. The agents have limited info, need an existing relationship, and want sell with the least amount of work
1. You want to know as much as possible before you make an offer
Nothing wrong with that. But you are competing with a lot of seasoned investors who can live without that info, or local investors in your case who are able to figure these things out when they view the property.
2. The agents have limited info, need an existing relationship, and want sell with the least amount of work* Your agent may have to get this info from the listing agent, who may not respond to back.
* The local/seasoned investors are not asking these questions, so the listing agents will go with the path of least resistance.
* You may not be a tire-kicker, but the agent doesn't know that for a fact until you do a deal. Even if you have proof of funds, that doesn't mean you will pull the trigger. I have a friend with $4M in a savings account who has been contemplating a rental investment for the last several years, and he still is as of today :) Once you buy a property from an agent, you will notice that they are willing to spend more time on you.
* The demand for investment properties far outstrips the supply in most markets, so most agents will take the "nobody got no time for that" approach if you ask too many questions :) I have a couple of agents that I work with regularly and they go the extra mile for me. Even then, from viewing to purchase, I take no more than a couple of hours of the agent's time.
* I had good success calling the listing agents directly, but you should be able to establish your bona fides on your very first call for them to take you seriously.
I don't say any of this to discourage you, but that is the ground reality. I totally feel you; I too struggled with similar issues in the beginning, but worked my way past them over time. All the best!
- Real Estate Agent · Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 630 posts · 303 votes6y
@Terry A. Hey Terry, I am a Real Estate Agent specializing in Investment property, Lon term and Short term rental Property Manager and AirBnb Host, in the Tampa, Florida Market. I work in Pasco, Pinellas and Hillsborough Counties. All of my clients are form out of state, California, Israel, Missouri, just to name a few. The thing is, an experienced investment agent probably already works with "SURE THING". A buyer that they know will buy(or have bought before). My market is SO competitive that any property worth anything sells at market price by the end of the day it was listed. My buyers, make offers sight unseen with a 5-15 day inspection period. You can back out for any reason with the inspections. You can also negotiate a lower price, asking for seller credits at closing. If you waited to get ANY info from a busy agent that has a good deal, you will never get a property. You have to show POF with every offer or they don't take you seriously. Every market is different, so , I can only speak to mine. If you have any direct questions, feel free to reach out. Best of Luck.
- 6yMatthew Irish-JonesBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Terry A. that is fairly common unfortunately. There may be a couple things going on: 1) you are not speaking to agents with a background in investing. If you are dealing with the average residential agent they will find answering the simple questions above difficult and they will be out of their comfort zone. 2) You are looking at very inexpensive properties and the agent's are putting you far down on the list of priorities. If they have investors looking at properties from 200K-400K and you are interested in a 50K investment... you can figure out how they have to invest their time.
Your best bet is to find an investor friendly Brokerage. They will have a plethora of agents qualified for what you need and they will have an agent that has a smaller buyers list that can allocate the proper amount of time to you specifically. If you cannot find an investor friendly brokerage you can find an investor friendly team leader, or team at a brokerage that can help.
Irish Jones Realty4.947 Reviews - 6yMike CumbieBusiness MemberREALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Hi @Terry A.
I appreciate everyone's response and insight. So that brings me to some questions. As an Investor if I am playing $120k+ or any amount of money for a property, I shouldn't worry about the age of very costly things (HVAC, Water Heater, Roof?) stuff that has to be replaced anyway? It seems to me that even though it is an investment property, you would want to know as much information going in, especially if it isn't a total rehab. I can understand cosmetic stuff (paint, floors, etc) but, knowing if something that is very costly to replace is at the end of its life should be a no brainer to want to know.Do you play Texas Hold'em?
You start with 2 cards (The info available) and if you want to play you have to Ante up (The offer and pay for inspection). Next is the Flop (The inspection). Staying in? May cost ya. The turn (Renter information) Know what it's worth but if you ditch them it may cost to replace with ones that are worth market rent. The River Any random other piece of information that may cost ya, title issues, oh there is a right of way no one mentioned? may cost ya. Still worth hanging on?
Everyone would love to have 2 cards down and 5 showing and then decide if they even want to ante up. You can check and hope everyone else does all the way to the end. Someone else is going to throw a bet down and half the table will fold away. As long as you are negotiating in good faith you are doing fine. "Based on what I see I am offering $100K". Oh wait foundation issue, Ok I'm out (The ante ends up being your inspection cost).
I like analogies, may have some holes, but it was fun to write. Good Luck!
- Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Create a simple checklist of what your target is. Get real clear on it before you send it along. Specifically list any/ all NON-negotiables. The rest is a wish list of your “high bar”. You’ll get 95/100 realtors who won’t even look at it or acknowledge it. You’ll get 5 who sound eager. And likely 2 who follow your simple instructions. This will cut down on wasted time for everyone. Although I would still suggest a quick 2 minute phone call before you spam a bunch of realtors from google with what they won’t read anyway.
When I found my realtor I explained it to him like this: “because of modern financing challenges for investors here in Canada I promise you it will be 5x more of a pain in your arse to work with me. However, I’ll buy 10x more properties than your average home owner. If that’s something you can deal with here’s my checklist of what I’m targeting.” And I also sat down with him for a beer first. Why? Because life’s too short to work with people who you don’t like.
Keep in mind, prospecting for clients takes $ too. So you buying 10 properties is client retention, and there’s value to that.
- Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 1 vote6y
They simply think they are wasting their time. There's no other reason they'd blow you off. You and/or your partner reek of amateur hour. That list of questions reeks of amateur hour.
- Investor · Lakewood Ranch, FL · Member since 2019 · 72 posts · 47 votes6y
@Terry A. Kemp II
Checking the county property appraiser site is also a good way to check these things. You can search permits for things like roof, HVAC, electrical and plumbing in there so can get a general idea if anything has been updated recently.
Also, instead of counting on your agent to get info from the sellers agent (they almost never reply to questions like this) why not just have your agent walk the property to take pics and videos and let him figure it out for you? This is really not hard and any agent with some experience should be able to do this for you. Do not let this stop you from taking the next step.
Goodluck! I was in your shoes less than a year ago and closed 3 deals (6 units) since.
- Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 2 votes6y
@Terry A. Kemp II my early attempts at finding the perfect deal went very similar to this. I think if you try to look at from a mutually beneficial standpoint and try to give them feedback, thank you cards and other signs of gratitude will let them know you value their effort. Like investors a lot of the agents have been burned by tire kickers and over demanding buyers. So I would suggest trying to develop a mutual relationship and keep following up. Eventually you will find the right agent and the right deal. Best of luck in your endeavor.
- Rental Property Investor · Maynardville, TN · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 1 vote6y
@Terry A. Kemp II my girlfriend said she’d help you out if you’re looking in East Tn I guess I’m lucky I have a realtor in my pocket ;)
- 6yEthan Antwain ReynoldsPro MemberMember since 2018 · 27 posts · 10 votes
@Terry A. Kemp II
We buy cash with an agent locally in Ohio and this is our second home with him and he gets us all the information we need. For example we put an all cash offer in on a property that was on the market 6hrs at 930pm at night. I already have my city’s picked out and I have already run the numbers for the cities that work so for me I know exactly what I’m looking for and my agent knows I buy. You will find someone that works I agree with some of the other post it’s a numbers game.
- Rental Property Investor · Hendersonville, NC · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 412 votes6y
I recommend finding an agent who is also an investor, perhaps at a local meetup. A lot of this feedback is spot on. I started as an investor, wanting to see properties well below the average price in my market and wanted everything spoon fed to me up front before making an offer. Its natural when you're getting started, but agents know that 90% of "investors" who reach out to them getting started aren't ever going to do a deal. That said, build relationships with agent investors at meetups if you're serious and they can coach you. In my market, by the time you get done asking all the questions on a good deal, it will already be under contract. Serious investors can look at a property, do an estimate and know that they gain all the leverage in the deal AFTER its under contract, so they make offers with limited information and negotiate on the back end when they have the property tied up with a contract.
- Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes6y
@Terry A. Kemp II
Many agents can just be lazy. But...
I know in our market if something is a good deal it has multiple offers within a day or two so they may just be tired of doing a bunch of legwork when they know it won't come together. I can tell you that I make a lot of offers sight unseen with a walkthrough contingency because this is a sellers market.
That being said, if you really want a deal you need to find off market deals
- Realtor · PInellas County Largo, FL · Member since 2016 · 902 posts · 810 votes6y
Originally posted by @Terry A.:
I appreciate everyone's response and insight. So that brings me to some questions. As an Investor if I am playing $120k+ or any amount of money for a property, I shouldn't worry about the age of very costly things (HVAC, Water Heater, Roof?) stuff that has to be replaced anyway? It seems to me that even though it is an investment property, you would want to know as much information going in, especially if it isn't a total rehab. I can understand cosmetic stuff (paint, floors, etc) but, knowing if something that is very costly to replace is at the end of its life should be a no brainer to want to know.
You've gotten some great insight over the past few days. I'm a little late, but still wanted to add some more.
I don't know your target market(s) at all, so I'll speak to mine right now.
From an investor perspective:
In my market, small multi investments are selling about 6-8% CAP rates. Not updated and needing some repairs. You can get upwards of 10% cap rates (the 1% rule) but you need to be a strong offer. Like cash, no/very short inspection period and 15-20 day close strong. Those investors are willing to take some of the risk of replacements or testy tenants on. Lower risk, lower return, and vice versa.
So, I have a duplex around the corner that is under contract at a 7.5% cap rate (estimating expenses to be high) after 3 days on market. No due diligence was done in those 3 days other than running numbers. That means that for rents at $900/unit, it's under contract for "around" $260,000-265,000.
At say, a 7.5% cap rate, that means that a $120,000 buys you rents of less than $450/month. That means tenants that are paying less than $450/month and those can be rough on a home in any market.
Also, most investors here don't consider a $500-1,000 water heater a major repair item. An entire HVAC is usually $3,000-5,000 for a 2.5 ton. Roofs can be expensive, but age has almost nothing to do with the condition of the roof. I've had 10 year roofs fail and need patches and my 4-plex has the original roof from 1983! You need a roofer on top and in the attic to check. Best to verify that during due diligence.
From a Realtor perspective:
A $120,000 investment purchase for a newer investor is way more work than a 280,000 sale to a 1st time home buyer. And it's most likely 1/3 the income. A major reason to work with investors is volume. That $120,000 purchase should become 3 in a year or two. But that requires loyalty on the part of the investor. A lot of (especially newer) investors have some idea of playing the field and working with as many Realtors in a market as they can.
I don't have any issues with an investor of mine having a different agent in Manatee County -- I recommend it! But not several in my back yard! That's not fair to the agent, especially when you are asking for more work up front than most. And remember that all the work you;re asking them to do is free to you.
Have you had a sit-down (even over Zoom / video) with any of these agents, or are you just asking them to do work for you? I have a consultation with all of my clients, especially investors. We have to see if they have realistic ideas of the market and potential returns, I educate them on the current conditions, we decide if we want to work together, and then we can get to work. After agreeing that we will be exclusive. I have lost many potential pieces of business because they didn't want to enter any agreements. That's okay.
I wish you the best of luck and hope you can find the right Realtor for you! I hope I've given some additional insight!
- Real Estate Broker · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2018 · 28 posts · 11 votes6y
@Terry A. Kemp II hey Teri, I appreciate the honesty of your question. And you’ve gotten a lot of great responses so far. It could also be that some of the agents that you’ve worked with do not really understand investment properties, they don’t understand the numbers that go into what would make a good buy and hold or a good flight. Some just looking for a commission, It probably won’t last in the industry for much longer, or they think that investment properties are not that difficult, so they say sure I’ll help you out and then realize maybe they don’t know what they’ve gotten themselves into. Or I could be way off and they just don’t wanna be bothered. Either way I love working with investors, that’s one of the reasons I’m with the brokers I’m with, as well as my own personal goal of becoming an investor. I’d be more than willing to help you out send me a message for contact information or go to my profile. Let’s chat to see if we’d be a good fit. i’m in the Clearwater/St. Petersburg/Tampa area and work as far north as Pasco and Hernando County‘s.
- Real Estate Broker · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2018 · 28 posts · 11 votes6y
@Terry A. Kemp II I think it is important to know the age of those items, and all of the families I work with in the home they’re going to live with I think it’s important to know those items even have to plan accordingly that they may need to be replaced on the road quicker than they realize. If I can negotiate those repairs in to be completed by the homeowner I do so.
- Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2019 · 956 posts · 600 votes6y
@Terry A. like many of the comments have pointed to it's easy for an agent to be over-run by loose investor requests.
I work off-market and have systems that protect my time, but when an investor does want to work on-market I ask that they follow these steps.
1. Research the area via zillow to decide for yourself what rent rate you think you can get.
2. If you're planning to refinance or want to upgrade to get that rent rate tell me your rehab budget and goal ARV.
3. Tell me the offer you're willing to put in.
If your numbers look reasonable I'll shoot in a verbal offer for you. If they don't I'll tell you where you may have went wrong. If your offer is accepted I'll go to the property at inspections and we'll answer the questions you asked above.
If you make this deal with an agent, you might start getting some answers!! Happy to answer the why behind any of this.
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