Noticing when a deal is too good to be true

Noticing when a deal is too good to be true

Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes

Being 17, I know i cant start house hacking till I'm a little bit older and have some money for a 3.5% Down payment on an FHA loan. I am planning on living with my parents for a year after college while working a full time job in Finance. I have some questions and it may be early but i want to learn as much as I can!

How do you spot a deal that is too good to be true? I went into Trulia, the real estate app, and found some multifamily houses for sale. I crunched some numbers, added up the rents for the 3 units of the 4plex, and once i subtracted the estimated mortgage, the Cash flow was about $1,300!! I feel like I might be missing something, because when i listen to Biggerpockets and the stories that people share about their house hacks, they are super excited and say they are lucky if they can make $500 in cash flow every month. I've done this with a couple other properties and noticed that it was around the same thing. I added up the numbers and after 3 years of househacking + buying with conventional loans, I could be making $8,000 a month in passive income in 3 years! Again, this just sounds too good to be true, and I want to learn as much as I can before I am ready. I know that mistakes are a great way to learn, but minimizing simple calculations would be great. (In mortgage calculations I also took out HOA, Utilities, A month of not having a tenant, and $500 for repair safety).

Also, is it easy to find tenants for a property? I've heard that property managers are a great thing to have, but if I can hold off on one for a while then that would be great too, just so i can maximize my cash flow to get the snowball rolling.

I am not asking for a mentor, just some advice. So if anyone has any that has been in the game, I would greatly appreciate it! Thank you!


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Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes
6y

@Brandon F. Right so at 3% interest rate borrowing 430K for 30 years. Your principle and interest is 1800. You PMI is another 100-125. Your taxes is $200-300. Your insurance is 100. I'm not sure what your HOA is but let's call it 100. Total would still 2300-2500. I understand low down payment loans and house hacking. I'm just saying your numbers look too rosy. We've been investing for over a decade and can tell you that most of the time it's murphy's law when it comes to investing. The rule of thumb you see on the forums is about 1/2 your rent is used for everything other than debt service. Day 1 you get 3000 for rent. 1500 goes to cover everything other than debt service. 1800 is your debt service and therefore negative 300. I'm not shooting down your deal but I'm just letting you know that the numbers presented do not make sense.

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  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Your post says nothing about property taxes or insurance - did you include those costs in your calculations? 

  • Lender · Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2017 · 142 posts · 91 votes
    6y

    @Brandon Fish - Also, depending on location, you could have Snow, Hurricanes, or other stuff that adds costs as well! Yard maintenance, HVAC / Roof / Appliances/ Plumbing/ Electrical/ pavement (concrete outdoors)/Flooring/ Tenant Turns/ and oh so many things that will cost money, and best to plan for them up front. Use the average life span of each component, divide the cost by # of years and use that annual cost added up as your "Reserves", and then add Maintenance costs on top of that...

  • Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Jaspreet Baveja lucking I live in Az, which is a super dry state and the only things that happen here are dust storms. But I also calculated in putting $500 aside every month for any repairs that may be needed, should I put more ?

  • Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Darius Ogloza Yes I did, they’re already calculated into the estimated monthly mortgage I’d have to pay on the property

  • Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes
    6y

    @Carlos Gonzalez You are the small MF guy in Phoenix.  What are your thoughts?

    @Brandon F. Many of these small MF have utilities that are paid by the landlord, it's something to consider and check out. Even with historical low interest rates i can't see cashflowing $1000 with low down payment. 400K for a 4plex in a rough part of town, borrow 388K, PITA $2200. Rents are say $800 a door, so $2400 a month while you live in the 4th unit. Not considering Property Managememtn, Capex, Vacancy and reserves, you may get a couple hundred bucks a month, but will all that added in you likely will be negative cashflow.

    Just for reference, we own condos/SFH/SMF in Phoenix area.

    What do your numbers look like?

  • Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Stone Jin thank you for the feedback! One of the 4plex's that is currently listed for sale in my area is listed at $450,000... in the description it's listed that the rents are $950, $950, $837, and $1012. The tenants pay electric and owner pays Gas, water, and trash which comes out to be about $313 (according to seller). Now living in the $837 unit would mean I'd collect about $2912 in rent, and pay 1,564 on est mortgage cost with 3.5% down. Minus the utilities this is about $1,035, the mortgage also includes property taxes, HOA, Home insurance, and mortgage insurance. So after I'd move out of the unit and got a replacement, it would turn into about $1872 in cash flow. Even if I were to take out $750 a month for possible repairs into a security account, then it'd end up being $1,122. Am i missing anything?

  • Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Stone Jin i see where I went wrong! Trulia automatically set the interest rate for an FHA loan at 0%, and I'm not sure why. But I looked it up and it said that it's currently at about 2.9%, changing the est mortgage cost to $2,164. After all the calculations however that's still $435 while on the property and $1,272 after leaving the property.

  • Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes
    6y

    @Brandon F. I'm not sure where you are getting the $1564 from but that seems super low for over 430K in debt. I did a simple calculation 3.5% rate fixed 30 years and for Principal and Interest it's over 1900, with HOA, PMI, Insurance and Taxes your monthly would easily be around $2300-2500. You were planning on taking out 750 to cover vacancy/management/capex/repairs and the $300 for utilities. By my calculations you would be negative cashflow starting day one and break even when you move out. Maybe I'm missing something. Are you getting a 50 year loan?

  • Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Stone Jin no I'd be getting a 30 Year FHA loan, they allow a lower down payment and lower interest rate but there is requirements: living on the property for one year, has to be a primary residence, and there's mortgage fees. After 1 year you can move out of it and get another FHA loan for another MF house, it wouldn't be conventional. Listening to Bigger pockets podcasts they call it "House Hacking". I'm sure you've heard of this but in case you haven't that's the base of it

  • Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes
    6y

    @Brandon F. Right so at 3% interest rate borrowing 430K for 30 years. Your principle and interest is 1800. You PMI is another 100-125. Your taxes is $200-300. Your insurance is 100. I'm not sure what your HOA is but let's call it 100. Total would still 2300-2500. I understand low down payment loans and house hacking. I'm just saying your numbers look too rosy. We've been investing for over a decade and can tell you that most of the time it's murphy's law when it comes to investing. The rule of thumb you see on the forums is about 1/2 your rent is used for everything other than debt service. Day 1 you get 3000 for rent. 1500 goes to cover everything other than debt service. 1800 is your debt service and therefore negative 300. I'm not shooting down your deal but I'm just letting you know that the numbers presented do not make sense.

  • Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Stone Jin i totally get you! I’m not even allowed to invest for another 6 years so a lot can change in that time. Thanks for the help!

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 346 posts · 170 votes
    6y

    @Brandon Fish

    That’s more like it!!!

    The remaining $4XX will go towards gas, water and trash and that will make you break even. Now, all Fourplexes including new ones have problems one more than others. What does this mean?

    It means that you have to spend money out of your pocket to fix all what will go wrong with holding the Fourplex.

    Depending on the contract that you sign with your renters may be you need to fix or replace the appliances, you need to fix water leaks, you need to call a plumber, and electrician and this problems sometimes are expensive to fix.

    I’m glad you are researching about Multifamily that way whenever you decide to buy one you have no surprises.

    My first purchase was beat up 4plex south of Phoenix. I did a fha and lived there for a while... that fourplex was and still is a cash flow machine. My mortgage is $1100 plus water and trash-sewer. Gross rents is $3000 so I’m baking almost $2000!!! That’s amazing HOWEVER most of the money goes to repairs and they’re expensive.

    After holding it for 2 years that’s when I’m reaping the cash flow benefits which I’m saving for my next purchase and paying credit cards.

    Right now all the 4plexes are super expensive here in Phoenix. I’m not buying because there is no cash flow. Only upside here is the equity which I think that’s what current buyers are after, they’re hoping the appreciation of properties continues to go up.

  • Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Carlos Gonzalez right on! I hope to follow in your footsteps once I get out of college! I'm going to be looking at my investing as more of a business then a personal thing. Which means I'm fine with having to pay for repairs and/or anything that will make my business stronger in the long run. On top of that I'm going to get a full time job in the financial field since I am really interested in that. Gonna live at home for a year or so and save up the money for an FHA 4plex. Something I heard that was really useful was "live how others won't so you can live how others can't" and I thought that was super powerful to hear! My main goal is the long run, building equity, and one day being able to make anywhere from 15-20K a month in passive income! Can't wait to get on the grind!

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 346 posts · 170 votes
    6y

    @Stone Jin

    That’s so true.

    The cost of operating small Multifamily can be costly. There always something going wrong that needs be fixed so if you’re not cash flowing a good amount then that money will come out out of your pocket.

    Right now I’ll be doubtful into buying a fourplex here in Phoenix. They’re too expensive and the cash flow will be minimum after debt service.

  • Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Carlos Gonzalez hopefully things will change for the better in the next 5 years before I’m out of college and wanting to start everything

  • Lender · Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2017 · 142 posts · 91 votes
    6y
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