Wells Fargo Short Sale Addendum

Wells Fargo Short Sale Addendum

Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2008 · 218 posts · 29 votes

I am real close to getting a verbal approval from Wells Fargo on a short sale deal I've been working on.

Today they sent me a couple of more items they need to move forward; one was a "short sale contract addendum".

One of the terms in this addendum states:

"The parties agree that this short sale transaction will not constitute appraisal fraud, flipping, identity theft and/or straw buying".

I'm stuck. Surely people are buying and reselling wells fargo short sales. How do I get around this?

Thanks in advance for any help!!

0Reply
133 views

Most Popular Reply

Rehabber · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 802 votes
16y
Originally posted by Alex Locklear:

One of the terms in this addendum states:

"The parties agree that this short sale transaction will not constitute appraisal fraud, flipping, identity theft and/or straw buying".

I'm stuck. Surely people are buying and reselling wells fargo short sales. How do I get around this?

Thanks in advance for any help!!


This clause is added protections for the lender and their investor against schemes that could defraud them.

1. If the B buyer is actual individual or entity authorized using wet funds to close then there is no straw buying or identity theft.

2. If you have disclosed you are an investor and that you intend to make a profit and you have not colluded, influenced or coerced anyone to make false claims or actions, then it is not mortgage fraud.

Flipping on the other hand is where your going to run into problems.

Option 1. Courtesey of Justin S. of BP, you should e-mail the negotiator and request clarification of the "flipping" and reiterate your an investor that intends to buy and sell and your title company will not issue a title policy because the language in the SS addendum is too ambiguous. Say... you need to have the right to resell the property once your on title.

Hopefully, you will get a response saying it is okay to flip the sell the property or something similar.

Option 2. Send in the SS addendum signed with a written addition stating that your are an investor intending to make a profit and are invoking your rights to resell the subject property once your on title.

If they issue the approval letter, then they have accepted your additional provision.

The clause is, in my opinion, is intended to keep investors from doing simultaneous closings. However, due to its ambiguity, it has a side effect that keeps investors from doing back to back closings as well ans possible any reselling activity.

Any lawyer will telll you, once your on title, the former lender cannot dictate its policies. The problem is, not many of us will be on title long enough to excercise those rights becuase the titel comapnies, whom are in bed with lenders, are simply not going to issue title insurance becuase of the perceived risks.

Once you have obtained a response under one of the options above, take it to your title company to see if they will help you will a double close.


Option 3. If, after you have tried 2 and 3 to no avail, you could contact your attorney to have him right an opinion letter. This is expensive and has not worked out well for me.

Option 4. If using your own funds, you can use two separate title companies. One to close A to B and th other to close B to C. This came from my own attorney becuase, again, once your on title, they cannot dictate those restrictions.

Option 5. Go A to C and move on.
See this reply in the discussion

43 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Michael Quarles:
    nationwidepi

    I love being told something I do cant be done... Remembering I doubled it with title insurance. Heck their silly approval letter actually said I couldnt resell for 30 days... whatever...

    When clearly it can... Besides we the buyers are not a party to the conditions of the borrow nor the borrowers lender... The lender cant create a deed restriction for the buyer.
    I believe you misconstrued my point, it was not to say that you, or I, or anyone else could not re-sell the short pay. In your first paragraph, this would require you, or anyone else to locate a title company willing to insure the transaction with that verbiage in the addendum and many (or even most) will not. There are countless examples right here on BP of others who had title companies that would not insure the transaction.

    In your second paragraph, I agree completely. The selling lender has absolutely NO legal grounds to tell you, me, or anyone else what I can or cant do with my own property after I take title. What they CAN do is not accept my short sale offer if I don't agree to their ridiculous adendum verbiage. That is the issue many are having with B of A and Wells Fargo.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    I guess I am exempt from these issues... I haven't had any problem..

    Maybe its my volume or my relationship with escrow.. I don't know..

    Seems easy

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 289 posts · 95 votes
    16y

    It seems the problem here is that you are agreeing to do or not do something after you close. Are you signing a valid contract with Wells or BofA? Yes. Are you breaking that contract by flipping it after the A-B transaction? If the verbiage of the contract specifically states the you can't do that then yes you are. Are the banks going to come after you later? I don't know - if I had a crystal ball and could see the future, I'd be sitting on my island somewhere.

    So to reiterate Will, no the banks can't tell me what to do with my shortsale after I close with them. But then again they don't have to approve it in the first place either.

  • Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2008 · 218 posts · 29 votes
    16y

    I spoke with wells...

    The "flipping" verbiage was to insure the seller (person short selling) wasn't going to turn around and make a profit some how on the property they were having to short sale...

    So from what they have told me and what my lawyer reviewed from the NC Consumer Finance Act, "flipping" would not include someone who buys, holds title, and resells at a date they choose.

    Bottom line I think is the context they are using "flipping" in is really for illegal flipping and not legit, legal practices (double closings).

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    I think we are missing the point... As a buyer I do not have an agreement with the short lender... I have one with the borrower or seller...

    Certainly if I agree to a deed restriction as a buyer then I may be able to be help accountable.. assuming I don't eventually disagree.

    However the same logic that could hold me accountable could be used to disallow that accountability..

    Again the lender is not the seller... My contract is never with them...

    If they ask an addendum to my contract I can do 3 different things.

    1) agree
    2) disagree
    3) agree then disagree.

    Contracts can be modified at any point by the parties involved. The same way my purchase agreement can be modified by a lender request that same request can be modified.

    I have heard everything from you cant flip, buy in a trust, resell the same day and its all crap...

    Sorry for the rant

    Michael

  • Real Estate Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2008 · 742 posts · 463 votes
    16y

    If you have received the paperwork from Wells with this "flip" verbiage, you will need to take the follwoing steps:

    1) Forward the paperwork over to your legal counsel, and request for them to give an opinion as pertaining to your business and its actions.
    2) Forward the paperwork over to your Title company. See what their opinion is and also what will they allow.
    3) Request for Wells to give a more clear definition. Ask for it in writing, and if they can not give a written definition then request in writting that it be removed.

  • Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    So, I got my approval with Wells this week. THere in plain sight it said, "No transfer of deed within 30 days of purchase"
    SO I'm holding thirty days and NOT happy.

    I can't see how to get aroud this. Title insurance issue...whether or not the contract is between the seller and lender doesn't make a difference. This one sentence explains it. If someone has an answer to that, I'd appreciate the response.

  • Investor · Melbourne, FL · Member since 2008 · 90 posts · 39 votes
    16y

    Send that Acceptance Letter to your lawyer and ask them for a written opinion on the legality of that portion of the letter. If the opinion comes back that the 30 day hold is illegal, then have him contact Wells Fargo, requesting they remove that requirement from the Acceptance Letter, intimating that he will take it to court, if they do not remove it.

    I do not recommend taking them to court, but your lawyer can speak as if you will do this. If they still refuse to remove it, then you can either live with the 30 day hold, close A-B with one title company, then the B-C with another agency, or you can go further and take it to court, which is not recommended.

  • Select a State · Member since 2010 · 48 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    I just flat out asked my bank negotiator about this after seeing that on an approval I got last week:

    Question from Me: "Do all of your approval letters state that the buyer cannot resell within 30 days? Am I understanding that correctly and is that a negotiable point or is there a way around that?"

    A: "There is no way around that, however, I will say we have no real control of whatever the buyer does once it is his property"

    FWIW

  • Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2008 · 218 posts · 29 votes
    16y

    FINALLY got an approval from Wells today. No where in the approval letter did they mention title can not be transferred for 30 days...

  • Real Estate Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2008 · 742 posts · 463 votes
    16y

    Great to hear Alex!

    Close it, make some money, and keep repeating.

  • Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2008 · 218 posts · 29 votes
    16y

    Thanks James!! I'm real excited about it. I actually had another approval today as well.

    It's you guys on here who give great advise that allow us rookies to finally make some progress.

  • Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2009 · 100 posts · 39 votes
    16y

    That's great news! Maybe WF is changing thier policies. The last two approvals we've gotten had no 30 day filp clause!

  • Loss Mitigation Specialist · Tampa, FL · Member since 2010 · 22 posts · 3 votes
    16y

    Even if they do...

    The issue is transfer of title.

    Depending on who the buyer is (i.e. no FHA), you could lease the property to your buyer for 30 days or until closing date, with a contract separate from the selling contract you have with them.

    Close on the 31st day, as agreed.

    This should work on many instances (unless selling to a rehabber that must start work on the property immediately).

  • Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2009 · 100 posts · 39 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by otrora:
    Even if they do...

    The issue is transfer of title.

    Depending on who the buyer is (i.e. no FHA), you could lease the property to your buyer for 30 days or until closing date, with a contract separate from the selling contract you have with them.

    Close on the 31st day, as agreed.

    This should work on many instances (unless selling to a rehabber that must start work on the property immediately).


    Unless I'm mistaken, the issue in this thread is Wells Fargo issuing the 30 day no flip clause in their approval letter, thus creating the "title transfer" issue. If that verbiage is not including in the approval letter then that is no longer an issue, as far as Wells Fargo is concerned. I believe Alex is just trying to do a normal A-B-C flip. Now, if the end Buyer's lender has any seasoning requirements that's a different issue in itself.
  • Real Estate Investor · Bradenton, FL · Member since 2009 · 99 posts · 42 votes
    16y

    Keep us updated, Alex, glad to hear your deal is moving forward. A great interesting thread has generated here!

  • Real Estate Investor · Fayetteville, PA · Member since 2009 · 1 post · 0 votes
    16y

    Yes, thank you for the good discussion and keep us updated.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.