Can I finance deals like this?

Can I finance deals like this?

Flipper/Rehabber · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 807 posts · 815 votes

Hi Everyone!

So one of my big goals is to own a large multifamily apartment complex. So thinking back to Rich Dad Poor Dad, instead of saying "I can't afford it", I've been asking myself "how can I afford it". I thought of the following method to finance and structure such a deal and I'd like to get your opinions on how/if this can work! I'm in Sacramento, so I'll use related pricing.

33 Unit Multifamily

Purchase Price = $2,500,000

Down Needed (25%) = $625,000

I was told by a commercial loan broker that they would allow the owner to finance 15% of the down payment. So $375,000.

I still need to come up with 10%, which is $250,000. Let's say I get private money lenders to lend me total $300,000 so I can use the extra $50,000 for any immediate repairs needed.

Now let's look at the numbers (Monthly)

Average rent/unit = $775

Gross Income with 94% occupancy = $24,025

50% gross income for expenses = $12,012

Bank Mortgage payment for $1,875,000 @ 4% 30 year = $8,952

Seller finance $375,000 for 6 years @ 4%, with interest-only payments = $1250

Private money loan payment for $300,000 for 6 years @4% also with interest only payments = $1000

Subtracting all expenses and debt service from gross income gives me = $811 in cash flow which I would set aside to use only on the property.

After 6 years, I would have built enough equity to refinance and cash out to pay off my seller and private money lenders. This would increase my monthly cash flow immensely.

So is this something that has been done? What are your thoughts? I feel like I'm missing something so I need to learn while I'm 24 and not 34 years old!

Thanks for your valuable time and input

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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
10y

1. The loan broker is misleading you.  unless you have great credit and are an  experienced real estate investor, no lender will allow a owner second as substitute for borrower contributed capital.

2. Private lenders typically lend in the first position, not second or third.  And they don't charge 4% interest, it's 12 - 16%, with 3-4 points at closing, and 12 month terms

3. If private investors put up the "down payment", then they want ownership equity, like 90%, IF you have found and put together a great deal, better than they can find on their own.

4. The expenses of running an apartment property include vacancy loss, maintenance, repairs, management, accounting, legal, evictions, depreciation, landscaping, make ready, utilities in common areas, extermination, insurance, property taxes, building code violation fines, permits, usage fees, security, management, leasing fees, etc.  Always more than the seller reveals.

Stop reading crap like Rich Dad Poor Dad.  The wealth of knowledge contained in those books can be summed up in one paragraph.  If you don't get it after one reading, you are not ready to begin investing.  Instead do the things that will give you a chance to really become a successful investor

1. Get a REAL education in real estate.  Start with a basic real estate text book, or a basic real estate course at a local college or through a Realtor's Association.  Understanding what real estate is, how it is valued, the theory of real estate ownership, and real estate law, will allow you to see each possible purchase with a clarity most amateur investors never experience.

2. Learn real estate finance.  The basics, not the one out of a million crazy "creative" legally questionable Byzantine fantasies put forth by the gurus and their unanimously unsuccessful followers.

3. Learn real estate negotiating.  Like what is actually obtainable in most transactions.  And how to be ready when you do stumble across the rare "home run".  There's nothing worse then discovering an opportunity to earn six figures on a quick flip (yes, although rare they do exist) and for lack of knowledge having to pass it on to someone else for a lousy $3k referral fee.

4. Optional - Get a job in the real estate industry. Best is a job with a REIT, real estate mutual fund, real estate equity fund, real estate debt fund, or private real estate investment fund. Next best is property management or commercial real estate brokerage.

5. Optional - Get a college degree in real estate ( Florida International University and University of Florida offer fully online degrees in International Real Estate and Real Estate Finance).  Realtors University, run by the National Association of Realtors, offers a Master's in Real Estate.  Over 200 colleges and universities offer degrees in real estate.  Or consider becoming certified as an appraiser, or real estate counselor.

6. SAVE money so you will have a "grabstake" to begin investing with

From the vantage point of my 40 years involved in real estate investing, I offer these conclusions.

First, for almost everyone, a true education in business, investing and or real estate is required for sustainable long term success as a real estate investor.  There are two exceptions - (1) people who out of sheer luck purchase property just before a large run-up in prices because of either inflation or the luck of being in the right place at the right time and hanging on to the property, can obtain a large degree of wealth without great knowledge or education in real estate and (2) those wanting to fix and flip single family homes can develop a nice business without the heavy education and experience I noted above.  However, although the fix n flippers like to call themselves real estate investors, they are actually in the real estate business, they are not investing in real estate.

Real estate seems to be the one field where a large number of people are willing to believe that with just superficial knowledge, the purchase of a guru's mentorship program, the reading of a couple of books by authors who were NEVER successful in anything except selling books about how successful they were, that they will be able to achieve success as a real estate investor.  This belief is so strong that they will incredibly believe this success can be accomplished with little or no capital investment.  Even more incredible (and extremely sad), those with $40,000 saved are willing to spend it all (usually eagerly) on a mentorship program in which they have done no research and demanded no proof that the program has been successful, other than read some hand picked testimonials from the guru's students.  Even worse are the people with no money who borrower $40,000 on their credit cards for the same mentoring program, with little chance of success.  The reason I mention this is that books like RDPD are the introductory step in a continuous upsell leading to the $40,000 worthless mentoring programs I just mentioned.

In any case good luck whatever you decide.

Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
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  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    10y

    Another part of the OP that is unlikely is getting a 30 year mortgage at 4%. The scenario in the OP was definitely commercial, and commercial loan terms won't be like the sort of conventional residential loan terms that were posted in the OP.

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jason Phillips:

    Don Konipol Thank you for the shared wisdom, this was one of the realest post I've ever read.  Well I've just decided to go back to school and seek the needed education. My question is how and where do I find a qualified mentor?

     If you get a job with a real estate company, you may be able to find a mentor within that company.  Otherwise here are some options

    1. Join your local REIA and network

    2. Go to Real Estate related "meetups" and network

    3. Join local chapter of CCIM, SIOR, or ULI

    4. Join local chapters of Mortgage Bankers Association, American Association of Private Lenders, or the American Association of Mortgage Brokers

    5. Join any quality local commercial real estate associations

    6. Attend local zoning hearings

    7. Obtain your real estate broker license and get hired by the best commercial real estate brokerage firm

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Property Manager · Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 195 votes
    10y

    Was just reading all the Post about how impossible it was to do a deal for 33 Unit complex, and one Post caught my eye.  "Donald Trump's Art of a Deal."

    1st Trump didn't write any Book.  Sure it carries his name and he claims it to be his Book just like a lot of things that carries his name which he has no ownership interest.

    That which most think is not posible might be possible in real estate investing.  Plus, I know Millioniare Investors without Real Estate Finance Degrees but, hire people with such a Degrees.  Any deal can be done in real estate, it just takes a little longer for those people that try.  Location, Lender, Buyer and Seller with common interest equals a deal.  I say this because, we are doing the same deal on 36 Units for $600,000 not 2.5 Million

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed, the subject is not that it's impossible to do a deal with no capital on a 33 unit apartment complex, its that the OPs analysis of how the deal can be done is incorrect, for reasons relating to cost of capital, ability to attract private investors, analysis of subjects property cash flow, etc.  

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Investor · Hamilton, OH · Member since 2016 · 272 posts · 77 votes
    10y

    That is some good information.  Thanks @Don Konipol.

    Brian

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 807 posts · 815 votes
    10y

    I've been reading every single response for the past 2 days and am blown away by all the great detailed information you've all been giving! 

    Looks like the biggest problems with my proposed deal structure is finding private investors to take a 3rd position and a broker willing to give me a loan with none of my own money down plus the fact that I don't have experience. 

    I'm not worried about not making much cash flow initially since it would be 100% financed anyway.  After the 2nd and 3rd loans are paid off,  the cash flow would shoot up.  

    Perhaps the best way to go would be to start with smaller multifamily deals,  build a track record,  and then go for the bigger deals.  Going to real estate school isn't something I want to do as my plan is to be a physician.  I just want to create passive income as early as possible.  

    Thank you for all the great responses.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Charlottesville, VA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 726 votes
    10y

    @Pratik P. Your post, I think, is a very interesting case study. I've been looking at a lot of syndications recently and considering doing one of my own. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors around apartment syndications, how they're financed, how the investors are paid back and the risk involved in the transaction.

    Your example is approximately a 6 cap property. It produces 6% return. You borrowed 100% of the purchase price at 4%. Of course you should do that all day long if you can. Your profit comes from the margin between the 6 and 4%. It's a classic arbitrage plus you get other potential benefits like appreciation and rent growth that could make you rich.

    And you're taking on no risk. If the economy were to turn bad and your occupancy drop to 80% you would suddenly not be able to pay your investors. No risk on your part but look at it from your investor perspective. They're going to lose all of their capital in that scenario. 

    So to cover that risk they are going to demand more like 10-12% cash on cash plus an equal share of the potential upside. Meaning they will want to be equity investors not debt investors like you suggest.

    To make a good syndication deal you need to preferably find something better than a 6 cap, have a fairly reasonable expectation of raising rents/reducing expenses and borrow really low cost funds and then hope that things go well in your 3-5 year plan.

    There are a lot of people making this look easy right now but if you step back and look at why that is, I think you'll find that the last few years have been very good for that type of transaction because of rising rents and corresponding appreciation. But if history is any judge, something that is that easy won't last too long. 

    The tenants, who are paying the ever increasing rents, incomes are not rising at the same pace so at the very least that is a concern. Giving everyone pools, dog parks, stainless appliances, and granite will only work to a certain extent. 

    I don't mean this to be negative but listen to the people like @Don Konipol that have experience while still looking for great opportunities. The great deals are always out there but when thinking about them keep your eyes open to the realities of the risk and return of everyone involved in the transaction. Except of course for the Agencies/government loaning out endless money at 4%. They are just crazy!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 807 posts · 815 votes
    10y

    @Jeff Kehl

    Thanks Jeff. You're right, I would need to give my investors more than just a 4% interest for such a deal. I don't think you nor @Don Konipol are being negative at all. Constructive criticism can be amazingly helpful. My biggest problem right now is the lack of money to make 60k-100k down payments (at least). So I'm trying to figure out a way to use OPM to get into rental properties. Maybe I should look into doing an FHA or FHA 203k on a 2-4 unit multifamily in my area and BRRRR.

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