Rental Property Investor · Goldsboro, NC · Member since 2019 · 44 posts · 33 votes
It’s Quite often ive seen and spoke with countless Accredited and Sophisticated investors. And they all seem to be the same. “You have to have skin in the game.” “You have to have money.” “ Why would i waste my time on someone who cant bring anything to the table”. (This is for someone who has no deals)
I often think to myself. Is it really that true? Is it impossible to accomplish a feat of this size (Multifamily,etc) Although i do understand that money is needed and there has to be some sacrifice made. But do investors have to be so “anal” about everything that comes out of there mouth?
Ive been given options (Wholesaling, Bird Dog, Mentorship programs) and anything else in the book. But would you suggest someone do something they aren’t passionate about? Would you do it.
Im currently 19 in active duty military and a aspiring multifamily investor. Ive been searching for partners to help with funding but it seems as if i get the same response. (Im not soliciting im trying to build a relationship).
I guess my real question is this. To whoever may read this. If you didn’t come from much. But you had a drive and you don’t really sleep that much. And your dedicated to reach that point to where a lot of BP investors are. And you reach that pinnacle of success. Would you treat someone on the other side of the fence as if your better? As if you were never that low?
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Christopher Smith What do your mean by "anal"? Just because I dont want to invest my hard earned cash with a 19 year old with no experience doesnt make me anal. It just makes me reasonably intelligent. It seems that you want a shortcut. If you are as driven as you say you are get a job. Get two jobs. Get 3 jobs. Cut your expenses to nothing. Save enough money to have skin in the game. For maybe a small flip. Then work your butt of and make it a success. Then go do it again with the profits. There is no shortcut and you will not be buying 100 unit building anytime soon. But you can make progress. Not by whinging about sophisticated investors but by getting out there and doing what you can.
Apartment Syndicator · Charleston, SC · Member since 2017 · 519 posts · 631 votes
6y
@Christopher Smith I wouldn't personally, but I do know other people that have and the reality is that such behavior will likely continue in the future. People aren't perfect and many successful people simply don't make being kind a priority. I'm not saying that such behavior is right or wrong, but more that it is what it is. The are a few major takeaways for you from this:
1. Let this treatment help you build mental toughness.
2. Allow it to further motivate you to achieve your goals.
3. In life, people sometimes have to do things to get what they want. For example, if wholesaling or being a bird dog is a necessity to help you get where you ultimately want to be, then use it as a stepping stone.
4. Take action and do something (which you are), but don't split yourself too thin by trying to do too many things because then you'll experience diminished results with all of them. So if you decide to start with wholesaling, make that your priority. Continue learning about multifamily until you're in a position to make the jump from one to the other. Conversely, if you want to stick with multifamily, then do that. Just realize that the time horizon for success in both is generally different for most people.
5. Keep your head and realize that you just need to keep putting the work in. Eventually, the pieces will come together if you surround yourself with the right people and take the right actions.
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
6y
I like to think I treat people reasonably well. So I may say some of the same things but maybe not with as much of an edge.
Bottom line, though, is that being a successful real estate investor is in a lot of ways like surviving in a prison yard. You have to have some cunning, a lot of toughness, something to offer, and a little bit of luck.
A lot of people say they have drive, but they really don't have anything that demonstrates that drive. They aren't willing to sacrifice their own wants to put aside capital for investment. They aren't willing to sacrifice their own time to do a lot of unpleasant stuff.
To build up to my portfolio I had to do a lot of unpleasant stuff, and that included working jobs I didn't necessarily want to work. I've crawled around in rat crap under houses with 15" of space between the ground and the joist. I've had sewage on me fixing broken pipes. I've been way up on two-story roofs fixing busted gutters. I've spent days getting together paperwork for bank loans or researching easements on a property. I've come all the way to a few days of closing to have a deal blow up and have to start all over, with inspection and other due diligence money blown. I didn't do any of that for kudos on BP; it was because it was what was necessary to get one step closer to a full-stream of independent income.
Welcome to the hard nosed game of investing. Truthfully people don't generally care about you, your past or anything other than. "If I invest with you, can you do the job and make me as much money as possible ?" YOU have to radiate the same level of confidence your investors have to give them the comfort level that they are not going to loose their shirt with you"
It's a hard tough business and you have to have a thick skin to play. Many investors have lost money with new investors who don't have the chops to complete a deal.
For a lot of people Wholesaling, Bird Dog, Mentor-ship programs are starting steps to learn the ropes and to find out if your passion is more than just a state of mind. No one starts at the top.
It's not about you, It's about the money.
I'm ex Navy and the BEST piece of advice I learned at 16 in the Navy from a Chief Boatswain Mate while he was holding a cup of coffee and watching me paint the side of the ship. "Son, Learn one new thing about your job every day, and one day you can trade your paint brush for a coffee cup"
Rental Property Investor · Goldsboro, NC · Member since 2019 · 44 posts · 33 votes
6y
@Brian Van Pelt
Thank you to all!! Trust me a few anal statements wont make me lose sleep at night. I asked to see what is the norm in this kind of business. Now they i know i can better gear myself to come across more assertive than as what most people would call “normal” again thanks to all
Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Christopher Smith, as mentioned, expect to hear no a lot starting out. There are a lot of investors out there that will give you time, but you do need to show you know your stuff and know how to adapt what you are saying to where the investor is. I know some people that have been extremely successful in venture capital. They know finances. But real estate is not their schtick. So when I talk to them, I don't talk cap rates and NOI, I talk about income price earnings multiples, etc. Concepts they know and can relate to.
But as an investor, I don't want to put my hard earned money into something that the sponsor isn't going to be hurt too. Unfortunately, it is an alignment of interest. Your money sitting next to mine. If things go down, we are both hurting financially.
One thing you can focus on is stating that you will be putting a "meaningful" amount into the deal. If you have a net worth of $100k, and $20k liquid, putting $10-15k is a meaningful amount for you.
My final point is if you continue to hear no when talking about multifamily, maybe try to start with a single family or duplex. I know of many very successful investors 5,000+ units with no outside money, that started with some fix and flips into single family rentals, into quads, 8s, 20's, etc. With each setup, they learned a little more to apply to the following step. It is the slow and steady play, but these are the families with college buildings and theaters named after them now.
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Christopher Smith What do your mean by "anal"? Just because I dont want to invest my hard earned cash with a 19 year old with no experience doesnt make me anal. It just makes me reasonably intelligent. It seems that you want a shortcut. If you are as driven as you say you are get a job. Get two jobs. Get 3 jobs. Cut your expenses to nothing. Save enough money to have skin in the game. For maybe a small flip. Then work your butt of and make it a success. Then go do it again with the profits. There is no shortcut and you will not be buying 100 unit building anytime soon. But you can make progress. Not by whinging about sophisticated investors but by getting out there and doing what you can.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y
I made an offer on a 10 unit deal today. The young man that presented the deal to me is a commercial agent that is probably younger than my youngest child (mid-twenties). I talked to him on the phone day before yesterday for the first time about a property he had listed which didn't quite fit my bill but was close; we talked for around 40 minutes about what I was looking for. He sent me a link to a perfect (for me) property yesterday. Today, I made a full price offer on the property and expect to hear back soon. He did a super nice job with analysing the numbers on the property and pulling comps. He's already added MAJOR value for me. I hope I get to buy the property and he gets a big commission. But even more importantly, I was actually looking for a commercial agent. Now I've found one. :)
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
6y
Well done. You are taking action and learning what it is going to take to succeed.
They want you to have skin in the game. Go get it...work and save.
They want you to bring something to the table. Go get it...do some deals and gain experience.
Your good actions and their feedback is giving you the road map. Now it's time to combine that with your drive and to go execute. Good luck...the first one is the toughest.
That is one of your problems right there. @Account Closed, someone who is a successful investor, gave you what he viewed as the norm and you discounted his opinion, probably because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. When you say they are treating your poorly, what you are actually saying is you want them to treat themselves poorly by making a decision that isn't in there best interest so you can get what you want.
But you already knew what you needed to do, the investors told you what you needed to do when they gave you those answers. @Mike Dymski summarized it better than I could.
You are looking at this from the point of view of 'how do I get money to do what I want'. That dog won't hunt to well.
If you look at it from the perspective of customer service , 'what do I need to give my investors so they can meet their goals' you'll have a lot better success.
You are in a great position to do that. You have a stable salary, access to a VA loan (which you could use to get into a 2-4 unit property), and a job that allows you to get a great deal of training + experience. Take advantage of what you have, not what you don't.
Rental Property Investor · Goldsboro, NC · Member since 2019 · 44 posts · 33 votes
6y
@Bill F.
Again. This was not a post on “how to get what i want” or how do i get free money. Im not concerned about that. I wanted to get a clear ideal and norm from successful investors on their take on it. Again this is a post to find a norm. I know what it is that i want to do and I’ve set my goals towards it. I didn’t discredit or ignore his opinion i took it and gave my feedback.
It’s Quite often ive seen and spoke with countless Accredited and Sophisticated investors. And they all seem to be the same. “You have to have skin in the game.” “You have to have money.” “ Why would i waste my time on someone who cant bring anything to the table”. (This is for someone who has no deals)
I often think to myself. Is it really that true? Is it impossible to accomplish a feat of this size (Multifamily,etc) Although i do understand that money is needed and there has to be some sacrifice made. But do investors have to be so “anal” about everything that comes out of there mouth?
Ive been given options (Wholesaling, Bird Dog, Mentorship programs) and anything else in the book. But would you suggest someone do something they aren’t passionate about? Would you do it.
Im currently 19 in active duty military and a aspiring multifamily investor. Ive been searching for partners to help with funding but it seems as if i get the same response. (Im not soliciting im trying to build a relationship).
I guess my real question is this. To whoever may read this. If you didn’t come from much. But you had a drive and you don’t really sleep that much. And your dedicated to reach that point to where a lot of BP investors are. And you reach that pinnacle of success. Would you treat someone on the other side of the fence as if your better? As if you were never that low?
Thanks for your service, Christopher.
#1. You're still young.
#2. It's going to be pretty normal for someone not to want to give a 19-year with no experience or capital a huge 'hear you go.'
They're not insulting you...
Behind all that is the simple question "Is Christopher for real, or is he just some young pup who will be out of the biz in 6 months when he finds something else to do."
Investors lend to other investors they see are serious and taking action.
I called a realtor on a listing, told him what I was doing...was confident...didnt' sound like a schuck.
He comes right out and says "Joe, I actually own the house, I own a bunch and trying to get out of all this flipping stuff. If you find deals, I'll happily fund them for you."
#1. He heard I was confident
#2. He heard I was taking action (after all I cold called him pitching him owner financing)
If you can scrap and pull together some great multi- deals, there are PLENTY of investors who want 'in' on multi-family (like myself) who can't find good leads in that space as multi-family is much more networking than SFH.
Expect to hustle for a couple years..
and once the results come in...
Even if you're just 21-22, you'll have plenty of people who want to work with you.
Rental Property Investor · OK · Member since 2019 · 126 posts · 114 votes
6y
Hey Chris, keep grinding! We all start with no experience and learn as we go. I wouldn't trash someone for trying to get into real estate just because they are new. I don't know what branch you're in but if you go to your squadron and talk real estate all day, people are going to notice. I've found several partners both more and less experienced than me just by simply talking about deals I made or was looking at. Is there someone in your workplace that is into real estate that you could bounce ideas off of? I'm mostly buy and hold, but I've learned a lot from a buddy at work that does flips. Either way, you are ahead of the power curve to be thinking about this at 19. Go get it!
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
6y
The norm for experienced sponsors is that LPs are respectful and thankful for the opportunity. But some will feel they are doing GPs a favor. Surround yourself with the former and don't work with the latter...and absorb feedback from all of them.
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 177 posts · 71 votes
6y
The big kicker here, is that it comes down to starting with what you have. As @Brandon Turner says you have to have at least one of the three 1. Hustle 2. Money 3. Experience.
If you're just getting started and you don't have any money, then you've got one thing left - And people seriously need it. So you bring that hustle to a group with experience and together you leverage that experience with your hustle to raise money. Having "skin in the game" is just a nice way of saying "I don't trust you"... because if you had enough trust, that they were able to "see without a doubt" that you'll come through with the returns promised, they'd invest.
You've got this, just take the hustle to the next level until it turns into money & experience.
To whoever may read this. If you didn’t come from much. But you had a drive and you don’t really sleep that much. And your dedicated to reach that point to where a lot of BP investors are. And you reach that pinnacle of success. Would you treat someone on the other side of the fence as if your better? As if you were never that low?
Christopher, you are asking a very deep question. In life perspectives come from the position someone is viewing the issue from. So in my case I know what I did in my life to accomplish what I did and that is the perspective that I will give you.
I didn't come from much: I grew up in gang and drug infested south central Los Angeles in the 80's. I knew education or the military was the only way for me to get out. I chose to drag my way through community college for two years while working at a grocery store and earned an AA degree. At 20 years old I was lucky enough to get a job that paid a great salary, great health benefits, tons of overtime and great retirement system.
I made sure I contributed the maximum amount into my worked sponsored 457 retirement account each year. I lived way below my means and worked as much overtime as I could.
I bought my first home when I was 23 years old from savings of the hard work I was putting in. I had new bride that I was starting my life with.
Education was still a very strong calling for me and my wife and I. I went back to school and earned by BA and MA while continuing to work full time, all along saving and getting yearly raises as contracts were approved.
We intentionally did not have children for six years of marriage because we knew that our educational goals needed to be realized first.
We continued this way through life and my wife eventually also got a nice paying job. Now we were able to save more money. We continued to live in our home as the equity in our neighborhood kept going up and up. We never sold and kept living our financially conservative life.
Kids came and we continued with our financial lifestyle.
In 2008 our retirement accounts were cut in half. We didn't panic and kept putting away.
The equity in our home was still high.
Up to this point investing in real estate was just a dream.
In 2011 at 38 years old I was now poised to make a move. Homes were half price. I was able to buy one and it appreciated nicely. When I sold the home I was able to have enough cash to buy another home and pay for my kids who are your age university education.
Why did I take the time to share with you my story. The reason is because it has taken me a lifetime of working and saving and buying and selling at the right time.
So if you came to me asking to partner with you, what is my incentive?
I have 20 year old son and a 19 year old daughter that I can give my money to. Why would I invest my lifetime of hard work and savings with you? The money I have didn't grow on a tree, it wasn't given to me by someone. It was through a lifetime of hard work and saving.
If you try and see the problem you are faced with from another perspective or different angle you might gain some insight into how you can get to where you want to go.
Good luck! I hope you find a big fish to partner with you. Real life is sometimes harder then what we see on a real estate forum sitting behind a keyboard.
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Christopher Smith Ok let me try to be more helpful. I have half a dozen syndicated investments and am an accredited investor. I would never.kn a million yesrs invest with someone with no experience with or without skin in the game. I do have some ideas about how you could break into the game but clearly you dont seem to want or need that. So good luck kid!
Rental Property Investor · Goldsboro, NC · Member since 2019 · 44 posts · 33 votes
6y
@Anish Tolia
I understand where you are coming from. And id never ask for anything i dont work for. Thank you for your insight and im always open to advice and help. Im not above that but thank you i do appreciate it.
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
@Christopher Smith I think you’re taking rejection personally. Maybe people you’ve spoken to have implied they’re better than you (idk for sure As I wasn’t there), but in general most people aren’t like that.
As to partnering with no Money and no experience, that’s going to be tough. The people telling you no are generally making a right decision.
I’m only a couple years older than you and I have partnered with someone off BP. When that happened I had money and experience. Very hard to do that if you have neither.
Also keep in mind with the Coronavirus, what you’re trying to do will be more difficult than normal due to the uncertainty of the economy
Real Estate Syndicator · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 903 posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Christopher Smith Lot of worthwhile inputs posted already from some truly experienced RE investors here. To your original question about norm, the norm is what you make it. There is no defined person or experience that is for everyone. You choose your reality.
If you are getting a certain experience or norm from a certain avenue or person, change your mindset to change your reality. In my opinion, basing success or failures on others and situations will never get you where you want to be. I got started two years ago in real estate with little funds and built what I wanted to build to be where I am today.
Plenty of people said it was impossible along the way, but I focused on those who had done it and who added value to my journey. There are many on here who add massive value for free! Choose to focus on that norm and follow their success.
Already you are far ahead of where I was at 19 by being on here, so keep crushing it! Every. Single. Day.
Consistent action regardless the outcome makes success inevitable.
Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 213 posts · 162 votes
6y
The norm for most investors is that they want alignment of interest. They want you to put some money into a deal alongside them (skin in the game). Someone mentioned it already and it's because if you win, you win together. If you lose, you lose together.
HOWEVER, look for someone who will see your hunger and take a chance on you. There ARE some people who will say, "Hey, I like @Christopher Smith, he's genuine, hungry, and I think he will do the right thing." They are out there so stay positive and enthusiastic.
I have one comment and it is just my opinion (noun; a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact of knowledge) so I hope you don't take it personal or that I'm trying to tell you what to do/not do.
I think you have self-doubt: "I often think to myself. Is it really that true? Is it impossible to accomplish a fear of this size"
and a negative attitude or outlook: "But do investors have to be so "anal" about everything that comes out of there mouth?"
The first statement shows some self-doubt which is normal. However, think the opposite "I know it's possible and I will eventually find the right deal and partners" and make sure to scale down your goals to what is tangible and realistic. For example, before I ended up working on 200+ unit deals, I was selling condos. That was the only tangible and realistic thing at the time and as time went on and I learned more I increased my goals even though my vision stayed the same. So maybe consider a smaller multifamily deal to start and learn. You're 19 and have access to VA financing like someone mentioned! Keep hustling my friend and you'll breakthrough.
The second statement is a negative attitude plain and simple. As someone mentioned, you may be taking the rejection personally. It is my experience that we attract what we put out into the universe...so if you think investors are "anal" then that is the only type of investor you will come across and continually frustrate yourself. Set your expectations positively: "I'll find a sophisticated investor who will be willing to take a chance on me and work together" and you'll have a better chance of finding them.
Again, this is my opinion. If you think I'm wrong or stupid for saying it, you're right too because you can choose your reality. :)
RE: Options (Wholesaling, Bird Dog, etc.)...
I personally wouldn't start there because I'm not passionate about it. I started by getting a license and being a residential agent. I wasn't passionate about that either but it was more along the lines of what I was willing to do to make it work and learn the business. I didn't understand the wholesaling model and I didn't want to go down that route (I think that is just unlicensed brokerage/middle-man...LOL). It comes down to what you're willing to do and what is really in front of you where you can take small steps. Just know you HAVE to have some interest in something to make it work... you don't have to love what you are doing but you must love the outcome. For example, I didn't necessarily love the RE brokerage space but I did it because I knew what the outcome would be (knowledge, investment capital, network, etc.). So decide what you're willing to do to get to where you want to be...that's what a sacrifice is. And then, just know you will get to the end goal as long as you don't quit.
Lastly:
"To whoever may read this. If you didn’t come from much. But you had a drive and you don’t really sleep that much. And your dedicated to reach that point to where a lot of BP investors are. And you reach that pinnacle of success. Would you treat someone on the other side of the fence as if your better? As if you were never that low?"
No, I would never treat someone that way. I never forget where I came from and I have a large interest in giving back, helping others, and putting others in a position to win because as I get better, I can help others get better, and they get better and can help others get better and It is a domino effect.
In general, however, and someone mentioned it...many people are just preoccupied with their own lives that they don't take a vested interest in others but it is not personal. It's just they way they are with others...as I said, just change who you're looking for in your life and you'll find them.
Best of luck Chris you'll do amazing as long as you persist and thank you for your service.
@Chris above me said it best:
"Already you are far ahead of where I was at 19 by being on here, so keep crushing it! Every. Single. Day.
Consistent action regardless the outcome makes success inevitable."
Half the battle is having a vision (which you do at 19) and then it's just sticking to it.!
From one active duty Air Force Member to another, one multifamily investor to another - quit whining and suck it up butter cup.
You're focusing on the wrong things. You're focusing on the "no's" and the hardships. Focus on the learning points. There are no such things as failures, merely opportunities to learn. Every no is an opportunity to understand drivers of human emotion and decision making. Write it down, document everything you fail at and why. Then do better next time.
Study, Read, learn, repeat.
Read Grant Cardone's books, study how to Invest in Real Estate with no and low money down from Brandon Turner, how to negotiate from Chris Voss, how to pick a market and Syndicate from Joe Fairless, how to build a brand and raise capital from Hunter Thompson and Matt Faircloth, how to Win Friends and Influence People from the book by the same name.
Become the subject matter expert on some thing, know something so well that people want, no, they need you on their team. Good leaders and syndicators understand that "No one is smarter than all of us." - Jim Rohn. This simple fact is why good leaders look for special people to bring on the team. For example: Become so good at finding a deal in your market that when you do, someone will demand to partner with you.
This is exactly how we started - my brother (@Chris Levarek) and I started October 2018, BRRRRed 2 duplexes, then scaled up to small multifamily, and by April 2020 we had 43 cashflowing rentals under management and 220 units under contract. And we had partnered, borrowed, and syndicated every single one of those deals.
In closing, do something, take action, build your value, your brand, your network, etc. Don't rely on or blame others for not funding your passion or dream. Take action. Action builds experience, experience builds credibility and credibility creates potential.
"You are what you do, not what you say you'll do." - Carl Jung.
Now go find a deal and we'll bring the team and the money. Kidding.... but serious.
All the best and feel free to reach out if you have questions.
Rental Property Investor · Goldsboro, NC · Member since 2019 · 44 posts · 33 votes
6y
@Ashton Levarek
Lol. Thank you for your insight. Again I didn’t want to post anything saying “i need money” , “ im just some kid that wants to be funded”. I do work in multifamily syndication , so I understand the work thats needed for this kind of career. I only wanted a general concept on how more successful investors think. Yes ive been treated like trash by few, ignored etc. am i going to lose sleep no lol. This was just to see where everyones head was at. But i do thank you for your insight.
