Vinyl Plank and noise for upstairs units
Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 479 posts · 277 votes
I have a 16 unit I'm renovating and looking at installing vinyl plank definitely in the downstairs units, but unsure about upstairs units due to noise. I had flooring guy recommend the plank glue down with an acoustic underlay or Clic Plank with an underlay attached to the boards.
Aesthetically and from a maintenance standpoint, I would prefer one of the vinyl options over carpet, but I just had to deal with noise complaints that had carpet in the upstairs unit already, so I am nervous to spend the money and install either vinyl option and the sound is even louder than with the carpet. When I peeled back the carpet on a different upstairs unit, the padding underneath seemed fairly thin, but I'm no expert. Property is 2 story construction, 1965 built in Jacksonville, FL with plywood subfloors.
Anyone install vinyl in upstairs units and/or have any feedback or advice?
I have a 16 unit I'm renovating and looking at installing vinyl plank definitely in the downstairs units, but unsure about upstairs units due to noise. I had flooring guy recommend the plank glue down with an acoustic underlay or Clic Plank with an underlay attached to the boards.
Aesthetically and from a maintenance standpoint, I would prefer one of the vinyl options over carpet, but I just had to deal with noise complaints that had carpet in the upstairs unit already, so I am nervous to spend the money and install either vinyl option and the sound is even louder than with the carpet. When I peeled back the carpet on a different upstairs unit, the padding underneath seemed fairly thin, but I'm no expert. Property is 2 story construction, 1965 built in Jacksonville, FL with plywood subfloors.
Anyone install vinyl in upstairs units and/or have any feedback or advice?
I would stay with carpet. There are several grades of pad you can buy and I would spend the money on the heavier grade. It will absorb the noise better and it results in longer life on the carpet.
I have seen several posts here in these forums of people who went with vinyl plank and tenants below complain about hearing every step.
That's what I had heard and would think, but trying to see if anyone has used the acoustic/sound barriers and found any success with that. Even the heavy duty stuff, most likely going to need to replace every 2-4 years whereas plank will probably cost way less going forward on turns. It's also what I see most often on 2nd+ floors on MF, but just seeing what others have experienced hopefully.
You shouldn't need to replace carpet every 2-4 years. That is not at all my experience, even on C- multifamily I used to own. Granted that property had Berber style carpet. It steam cleaned up great between turns. The hallway in the multifamily was 30+ year old carpet. Where you can run into issues is pet urine.
I have a 16 unit I'm renovating and looking at installing vinyl plank definitely in the downstairs units, but unsure about upstairs units due to noise. I had flooring guy recommend the plank glue down with an acoustic underlay or Clic Plank with an underlay attached to the boards.
Aesthetically and from a maintenance standpoint, I would prefer one of the vinyl options over carpet, but I just had to deal with noise complaints that had carpet in the upstairs unit already, so I am nervous to spend the money and install either vinyl option and the sound is even louder than with the carpet. When I peeled back the carpet on a different upstairs unit, the padding underneath seemed fairly thin, but I'm no expert. Property is 2 story construction, 1965 built in Jacksonville, FL with plywood subfloors.
Anyone install vinyl in upstairs units and/or have any feedback or advice?
I would stay with carpet. There are several grades of pad you can buy and I would spend the money on the heavier grade. It will absorb the noise better and it results in longer life on the carpet.
I have seen several posts here in these forums of people who went with vinyl plank and tenants below complain about hearing every step.
I have a 16 unit I'm renovating and looking at installing vinyl plank definitely in the downstairs units, but unsure about upstairs units due to noise. I had flooring guy recommend the plank glue down with an acoustic underlay or Clic Plank with an underlay attached to the boards.
Aesthetically and from a maintenance standpoint, I would prefer one of the vinyl options over carpet, but I just had to deal with noise complaints that had carpet in the upstairs unit already, so I am nervous to spend the money and install either vinyl option and the sound is even louder than with the carpet. When I peeled back the carpet on a different upstairs unit, the padding underneath seemed fairly thin, but I'm no expert. Property is 2 story construction, 1965 built in Jacksonville, FL with plywood subfloors.
Anyone install vinyl in upstairs units and/or have any feedback or advice?
I would stay with carpet. There are several grades of pad you can buy and I would spend the money on the heavier grade. It will absorb the noise better and it results in longer life on the carpet.
I have seen several posts here in these forums of people who went with vinyl plank and tenants below complain about hearing every step.
That's what I had heard and would think, but trying to see if anyone has used the acoustic/sound barriers and found any success with that. Even the heavy duty stuff, most likely going to need to replace every 2-4 years whereas plank will probably cost way less going forward on turns. It's also what I see most often on 2nd+ floors on MF, but just seeing what others have experienced hopefully.
I have a 16 unit I'm renovating and looking at installing vinyl plank definitely in the downstairs units, but unsure about upstairs units due to noise. I had flooring guy recommend the plank glue down with an acoustic underlay or Clic Plank with an underlay attached to the boards.
Aesthetically and from a maintenance standpoint, I would prefer one of the vinyl options over carpet, but I just had to deal with noise complaints that had carpet in the upstairs unit already, so I am nervous to spend the money and install either vinyl option and the sound is even louder than with the carpet. When I peeled back the carpet on a different upstairs unit, the padding underneath seemed fairly thin, but I'm no expert. Property is 2 story construction, 1965 built in Jacksonville, FL with plywood subfloors.
Anyone install vinyl in upstairs units and/or have any feedback or advice?
I would stay with carpet. There are several grades of pad you can buy and I would spend the money on the heavier grade. It will absorb the noise better and it results in longer life on the carpet.
I have seen several posts here in these forums of people who went with vinyl plank and tenants below complain about hearing every step.
That's what I had heard and would think, but trying to see if anyone has used the acoustic/sound barriers and found any success with that. Even the heavy duty stuff, most likely going to need to replace every 2-4 years whereas plank will probably cost way less going forward on turns. It's also what I see most often on 2nd+ floors on MF, but just seeing what others have experienced hopefully.
You shouldn't need to replace carpet every 2-4 years. That is not at all my experience, even on C- multifamily I used to own. Granted that property had Berber style carpet. It steam cleaned up great between turns. The hallway in the multifamily was 30+ year old carpet. Where you can run into issues is pet urine.
@Chris Grenzig Great question. I have never thought about this situation before. It's nice to know that you are taking into account the quality of life for your tenants and if that floor will benefit them. That's something investors look past sometimes. We get so caught up in looking for deals and buying that we forget we are providing housing to families. We have a duty to provide them with a good quality of life.
Anyways, what did you decide to do?
@Joe Splitrock Great points. Thanks for sharing. Are you still a fan of the LVP though?
Hi @Chris Grenzig, I am in the process of installing LVP in the living room/kitchen of my 2nd floor condo, 1985 woodframe construction, plywood subfloor. The HOA told me they require a sound dampening rating of 67% for upstairs units, and I ended up getting CoreTec ProPlus which has a 57 STC (sound transmission control) rating (I had to call the manufacturer to get that info). The HOA told me that though that's a bit low, they will allow it as long as I use area rugs so that 80% of the unit is covered by rugs or carpet (I have carpet in the bedrooms). I seem to remember that some LVP brands boast better acoustic properties (especially with special underlayments), but didn't take notes of which. Just mentioning this in case it gives you some reference for specs / thresholds to consider. I plan on asking the tenant below soon if she notices large differences from the full carpet that was installed before.
The other thing I'll mention is that LVP is of course more sensitive to imperfections in the subfloor than carpet, which has by far been my largest issue to this point, and you may have some of the same things going on with your plywood subfloors. We ended up having to do quite a bit of grinding and leveling and are still outside the flooring manufacturer's specs for flatness - would have been a huge investment to get there, so we just ended up getting it good enough so that we don't notice any obvious dips or bumps and praying that the flooring will be robust to the remaining issues.
@Chris Grenzig let’s get @Brandon Abbott to share his renovation expertise
@Joe Splitrock Great points. Thanks for sharing. Are you still a fan of the LVP though?
I like LVP for kitchen, living room and hallways. I prefer carpet for bedrooms. That is my single family homes. In multifamily, noise is a real concern. I would stick with carpet on upper floors in bedrooms and on stairs. I just rented to a guy who was living in townhome and wanted a house because he was sick of noise from the kids running up and down steps. Noise is a real concern in multifamily, so do what you can to reduce it.
We have wood floors, tile, LVP in nearly all of our units (800 units) and rarely get noise complaints. LVP/hard surfaces last a lot longer and look better. The money you save in the long run will end up boosting your NOI, which in turn boosts your property value.
Hi @Chris Grenzig, I am in the process of installing LVP in the living room/kitchen of my 2nd floor condo, 1985 woodframe construction, plywood subfloor. The HOA told me they require a sound dampening rating of 67% for upstairs units, and I ended up getting CoreTec ProPlus which has a 57 STC (sound transmission control) rating (I had to call the manufacturer to get that info). The HOA told me that though that's a bit low, they will allow it as long as I use area rugs so that 80% of the unit is covered by rugs or carpet (I have carpet in the bedrooms). I seem to remember that some LVP brands boast better acoustic properties (especially with special underlayments), but didn't take notes of which. Just mentioning this in case it gives you some reference for specs / thresholds to consider. I plan on asking the tenant below soon if she notices large differences from the full carpet that was installed before.
The other thing I'll mention is that LVP is of course more sensitive to imperfections in the subfloor than carpet, which has by far been my largest issue to this point, and you may have some of the same things going on with your plywood subfloors. We ended up having to do quite a bit of grinding and leveling and are still outside the flooring manufacturer's specs for flatness - would have been a huge investment to get there, so we just ended up getting it good enough so that we don't notice any obvious dips or bumps and praying that the flooring will be robust to the remaining issues.
I have been looking at the STC and IIC ratings for several different flooring options, underlayments, subfloors, and more. One of the things I've noticed is that the flooring and underlayment options usually give an STC rating based on their use on 8" concrete subfloors.
Part of the rating given is being attributed based on what type of subfloor it is and would be a lower rating than with the plywood subfloors. Not sure if you or your HOA were aware of that, or were just asking for the rating to be that and accounting for the difference.
@Chris Grenzig Great question. I have never thought about this situation before. It's nice to know that you are taking into account the quality of life for your tenants and if that floor will benefit them. That's something investors look past sometimes. We get so caught up in looking for deals and buying that we forget we are providing housing to families. We have a duty to provide them with a good quality of life.
Anyways, what did you decide to do?
I was just talking on our podcast about this with Anthony Vicino, our tenants are our customers and too many landlords ignore customer satisfaction just because everyone NEEDS housing of some sort. It makes it very easy to find customers even with bad support.
I am leaning towards going with the click plank option as I was told, that when it clicks together it adds another substrate or "floor" basically and that with the attached underlayment does a pretty good job of reducing noise.
I looked at adding gypsum concrete (gypcrete), self leveling cementitious subfloors, wool insulation under the plywood, and another type of cement type floor, but they all have their pros and cons and doesn't seem to be worth the extra money in the end.
I will probably test the click plank on the first 2 units and see how it goes.
You can use SPC floors people have been referring to them as LVP. SPC floors itself has some sound proofing to them and you can install them over acoustic/Portuguese 1/4" cork for even more sound proofing. I've installed them in hundreds of units and no complaints yet.
You can use SPC floors people have been referring to them as LVP. SPC floors itself has some sound proofing to them and you can install them over acoustic/Portuguese 1/4" cork for even more sound proofing. I've installed them in hundreds of units and no complaints yet.
Your flooring is only so much of a factor here. The main issue is most likely lack of insualtion between floors and loose/squeaky subflooring. The quickest way to address this in my experience is marking out floor joists and nailing them off every foot or so. Its not very expensive. Once the floor is pulled up, its a quick process that goes a long way.