Contractors Costs Per Square Foot for Second Floor Additions?

Contractors Costs Per Square Foot for Second Floor Additions?

Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes

Hi BP Community,

I'm considering doing a high end redesign and addition to an 1800 sf SFH. I'd like to gut and redesign the existing first floor of the house and add a 1400 - 1500sf second floor for a total living area of 3200 - 3300sf. The property is on the west side of Los Angeles and I'd like to know what this kind of higher end project will cost me i.e. plans, engineering, permits and construction costs?  

I don't know if "high end" is the right description so I'll tell you some of the features I'm considering and maybe you can tell me if it's high end or mid range?  

Mediterranean Style or Traditional Style, 4 beds, 3 or 4 baths, smooth stucco finish for Mediterranean and stone and stucco (not smooth) for Traditional, a few arched windows the rest rectangular.  Two car garage.

Interior- 10' ceilings (currently has 8' ceiling), crown moldings throughout the whole house, 4-6" base moldings throughout.  Gas fireplace on first floor.

12mm engineered floors everywhere except baths.  Baths flooring is 18x24 porcelain tile.  Kitchen counters are granite, back-splash  either granite or some kind of stone tile.

Maybe I should stop here and wait for your response and questions.  I just wanted to give you some idea of the type of project I'm planning so you can give me some kind of idea of the costs.   

Thanks for your help.

Deborah

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Architect · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 10 votes
10y

Hi Deborah,

I am an architect here in Los Angeles and am currently helping several families with additions and remodels of this nature also on the westside. The numbers that I am seeing right now are in the range of $250-350 per square foot for construction costs. For your overall project budget, I would add another 10-20% for soft costs (the plans, engineering, permits, etc.). And your holding costs for the property would also be additional thing to consider.

best,

Stephanie

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  • Architect · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Hi Deborah,

    I am an architect here in Los Angeles and am currently helping several families with additions and remodels of this nature also on the westside. The numbers that I am seeing right now are in the range of $250-350 per square foot for construction costs. For your overall project budget, I would add another 10-20% for soft costs (the plans, engineering, permits, etc.). And your holding costs for the property would also be additional thing to consider.

    best,

    Stephanie

  • Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Stephanie Ericson That's a two part price, one for addition and another for just gut out (presuming) and raising ceiling. And I believe those prices are retail and/or really high end. Although Deborah Cavallaro is posting something on higher end, how high, who knows, until there's a figure per sf on finishes, can't really tell.
  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    Deborah,

    I strongly advise against doing your pro forma based on SF price on an expansion.   There is no good SF price as your dealing with such small area and the type of finish dictates the drastically.

    As for the soft cost I agree with Stephanie.

    Thanks,

    Min

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Stephanie Ericson

    I agree with Manolo D., those sound like retail prices.  Were they for people who are owner occupants planning to live in the property?  Also, is the price per sf the same for the gut out and remodel of the existing first floor the same as the new construction of the second floor?

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Manolo D.

    I tried to give everyone an idea of the quality level of the project in my post at the top of the page.  In addition to that description I can say that kitchen cabinets would probably be in the 5k to 10k area and floor tile in the $2 to $4 sf range.  Kitchen back splash tile or granite $4 sf with accent tiles $10-$12 sf.  Shower tile $4 sf.  

    Given these item descriptions what would you call my project?  Is it mid level, medium high or high end? How should I describe it?

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Min K.

    So how would you estimate the cost if not by square footage?

  • Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Deborah Cavallaro To me that only qualifies for low/mid. Or lower part of a mid.

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    @Deborah Cavallaro

    Depends on how accurate you want the estimate to be.  SF price will be a guess in the dark.  If you want somewhat of a precise estimate, I suggest working with a general contractor (or obtain a quote per each major trade and put allow some money for minor trades).  Major trade would be framing, drywall, finishes (tile, flooring, paint, etc.).  Not sure which part of the building you are expanding but I'm guessing you have concrete for your foundation and slab.

  • Architect · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Yes, those prices are retail, for an owner who will live in the property. I don't know the cost of first floor gut and rebuild vs. adding the second floor, but that's why I gave a range. I can tell you that I tell clients to add $100/sf for projects that add a second floor vs. a first floor addition.

    And I agree with Manolo D. about the finish level that you are describing.

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Manolo D. and @Stephanie Ericson

    Very interesting.  I have priced a few of the materials like the tile, kitchen cabinets, faucets, tubs etc. that I see in houses that are selling for $1.2M to $1.6M on the west side of Los Angeles and the prices I mentioned are what I've found at HD Supply, Home Depot, Kitchen cabinet distributors, Ferguson's Plumbing Supply etc. so maybe that's just what a mid level rehab/remodel on the west side costs...I don't know?  The houses look beautiful and very impressive but don't seem to have to use very expensive materials. The fixtures and finishes look elegant so maybe the project won't cost as much as we're thinking?

  • Beverly Hills, CA · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 10 votes
    10y
    Hey Deborah Cavallaro The developers whom I work with on the Westside of LA (excluding complex Geo) average about $200-300/SF for ground up new build, and about $70+/SF for cosmetic (move a few walls + new drywall, kitchen, baths, flooring, etc...). This is for hard and soft costs for modern or transitional style houses, generally 2-story, that sell in the $2-4mm range. Does not include holding and closing costs. Thanks for sharing and best of luck. I look forward to hearing about your progress.
  • Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Deborah Cavallaro High end in reality is somewhere around honed travertine or something where it costs $60/sf, mid is somewhere around $10/sf when we talk about tile. Right now, a 170-230 is a good range for what you are asking I am assuming some ~200/fixture to match tile and all. gut/reconfiguration on existing building could vary, or it might come close to the new construction/addition, raising ceiling is not that easy, but it is not rocket science either, you are raising the frame itself. The design of the engineer, and how he will tie the existing frame to the new 2' higher will come into play, I am even assuming the whole roof coming off. but this is all speculation, i have not even seen the house and all that, it is an assumption to basic construction method. If you really need a figure based on a forum, I would say 200/sf is enough, if it is not, you will have to sacrifice it from the finish/fixtures. With a 400k budget, it will work, but you need to sit down and write SKUs with an estimator/contractor, then find a contractor that can do it at that price, then make an air tight contract with a lot milestones and SOV items. Just my $0.02.
  • Developer · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 898 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Deborah Cavallaro:

    @Manolo D.

    I tried to give everyone an idea of the quality level of the project in my post at the top of the page.  In addition to that description I can say that kitchen cabinets would probably be in the 5k to 10k area and floor tile in the $2 to $4 sf range.  Kitchen back splash tile or granite $4 sf with accent tiles $10-$12 sf.  Shower tile $4 sf.  

    Given these item descriptions what would you call my project?  Is it mid level, medium high or high end? How should I describe it?

     What you are describing is not even midrange in my opinion.  I build $200k duplexes and spend more than what you describe on my rentals, and my units are small and not built for homeowners.  I cant see any place were $1m plus houses are installing cheap $2-4/sf material cost tiles.  It would scream cheap.

    I would suggest estimating your material and labor cost for each aspect of the built.  The more detailed the breakdown, the more accurate the end result.  Determining the material costs should be relatively straight forward, as you can shop for them basically, the labor is something that would be more difficult without experience.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    A sq ft price is only a  guess , until a contractor sees specs with plans and looks at the building its just speculation .  Pricing ? Retail ?  As a contractor I dont care if you are a homeowner , flipper , landlord , it doesnt matter on pricing . Its work , its the same amount of work and money to replace a 10 sq roof on a homeowners house , as it is on a landlords house .  Contractors overhead does not change  because  someone is flipping or renting a house , neither does the margins 

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Rancho Palos Verdes, CA · Member since 2010 · 15 posts · 61 votes
    10y

    I don't think you can really separate your first floor rehab with your second story addition. It sounds like you are almost covering the entire first floor with the addition so it will need almost a complete rebuild as opposed to a rehab. You will need to redo foundation to support the second floor and also reframe the first floor to raise the ceiling and support the second floor. 

    Sounds like a pretty big job to take on, especially if this is your first.

  • Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2015 · 377 posts · 200 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Deborah Cavallaro:

    @Min K.

    So how would you estimate the cost if not by square footage?

     I worked as a professional estimator for 25+ years.  I NEVER used square foot prices.  Even on napkin sketches I would use quantity takeoff and base prices off of those quantities.

    A napkin sketch is where you only have a floor plan and no other information.  With experience you can turn that into an estimate and be within 5% or better of the actual contract amount.  I was expected to develop a "not to exceed" estimate based off of this info.  After all, it is always easier to reduce a budget rather than having to go find more money for a project.  My projects were hospitals, treatment plants, manufacturing facilities, etc.

    It's all about knowledge and knowing what questions to ask to develop an estimate.

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Adam Phebus

    Thanks Adam, that was very helpful.  Is the spread between $200 and $300/SF determined by the quality of the finishes?

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Manolo D. 

    @Mike Wood

    Good suggestions on shopping the SKU's perhaps a little more carefully and really nailing down the type and quality of finishes and fixtures I want or need to accomplish my goal.  Are you including landscaping in your cost estimates or is that extra?

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Matthew Paul

    I understand that a contractor's costs don't change regarding retail or investor.  My point is that contractors who work primarily with investors and get repeat business from them usually reduce their profit margins a bit because they understand that the investor must make a profit on the deal or it won't work.  The investor expects the contractor to make a profit too otherwise it makes no sense for him it just needs to be a smaller profit.  It has to work for both parties of course.

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Frank Nolan

    You're right about the foundation and framing but I think I can reinforce the foundation rather than do a new one, at least I think I can do it.  Does anyone know if instead of completely re-framing the first floor to raise the ceiling, can I keep the existing framing and stack two 4"x12" beams on top of each other to raise the ceiling two feet?  I agree with you Frank, it is a big project especially for a first one.  That's why I'm soliciting everyone's help and advise to determine if I will proceed or not.

  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Hugh Ayles

    Hugh, can you explain what this means "I would use quantity takeoff and base prices off of those quantities."  I'm not familiar with that terminology.  Thanks.

  • Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2015 · 377 posts · 200 votes
    10y

    @Deborah Cavallaro

    Quantity takeoff is figuring out how much of each type of work is required - how much wood framed wall, how much roofing, how much painting, etc.

    I am not sure if you realize but the unit prices you have been given each have a $100/sf difference which is about a $300,00 budget spread on your project or ~30% swing.  That is a lot of risk.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Rancho Palos Verdes, CA · Member since 2010 · 15 posts · 61 votes
    10y

    Deborah, you can reinforce foundation but it still requires drilling into existing footing, gluing in rebar and adding new wider, deeper footings not only on the perimeter of the home but also on internal support walls as well. The existing framing isn't built to support the weight of a second story so it's not as simple as adding a couple of 4x12 beams to raise the first floor ceiling. Probably best to get a contractor or an engineer to come out and look at the house and have them explain the process to you. 

  • Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Deborah Cavallaro I don't do landscape, they are unpredictable, specially if it is a city requirement. Some city planners want a specific design to a curbside, I just had a client spend 8k for a city requirement, it was only a 100' frontage, i told the city planner i need it in writing because he was calling out outrageousness all over. It is also a special trade, you will need to put a system in place so that new plants will not easily die.
  • Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Hugh Ayles

    Yes I do realize that Hugh, which is why I'm going to do a lot more shopping so I can be more precise as to what I really plan to do.  Thanks for pointing it out though.

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