Drawings for Permits

Land & New Construction
6yFollow

Drawings for Permits

Emily L. Wiersema
Flipper/Rehabber · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2019 · 26 posts · 3 votes

Hi all,

I'm looking to complete a rehab for a BRRRR property. There is an opporrunity to take some space from a massive closet/den to turn a half bath into a full bath in the "master" bed room. I know a permit will be required but do I need an architect to create drawings for me so I can get the permit. I am project managing this property myself so I can learn as much as possible so I won't have a GC to do it.

Thoughts, ideas all welcome!

0Reply
59 views

Most Popular Reply

Marcus Auerbach
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y

@Emily L. Wiersema you will not need an architect, but Milwaukee will require some plans. You can either draw them up yourselves or you can ask you carpenter to help you with that. Maybe you have a friend who is an engineer and will help you? 

If the wall is load bearing you will need a header to span the opening - think of it like a bridge that has to span the distance and carry the weight of the structure above. If it's more than just a few feet, you will probably use aa LVL (laminated veneer lumber) beam, which will require a load calculation. Some lumber yards can do that for you.

You want to make sure your carpenter knows what he's doing when installing the beam, otherwise you will see cracks in the drywall or worse later on - think snow load next winter.

The easy way is to install the beam under the ceiling, but the you loose room height. Much nicer is a hidden flush mounted beam which sits in te attick and the joists hang from the beam. This way you have a nice open ceiling without interruption.

3Reply
See this reply in the discussion

9 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Joseph H.
    Kansas City, MO · Member since 2018 · 91 posts · 30 votes
    6y

    From my experience that is up to the cut you are requesting through. We used hand drawings to scale for one house where another required professional prints. If you do them by hand they have to include everything. 

    0Reply
  • Samuel Pavlovcik
    Architect · Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 214 posts · 236 votes
    6y

    @Emily L. Wiersema, I believe what @Joseph H. was saying is that it will depend on the City/Jurisdiction who you have to request the permit thru; which is correct. You can avoid Stamped Architectural drawings in many smaller towns, sometimes even hand-sketched plans drawn to scale is enough. In larger municipalities like within the City of Milwaukee, you may need architectural drawings stamped by an Architect. Additionally, the scope of work will have something to do with the requirement as well. Depending on how the layout is changing, ensuring that no load-bearing walls are being moved, and also if plumbing fixtures are being added (which it sounds like there will be) you may need an Architect. The easiest thing to do would be to reach out to the Municipality that you would be submitting the permit to and just ask what they would require for your project scope.

    3Reply
  • Pat L.
    Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I guess we're lucky here with a more lenient bldg. inspector. 

    Although not exactly the same, I took an old mudroom & closet & made it into a kitchen with a section of wall removed for a passthrough. The bldg inspector did not require a drawing as the wall with the pass through was not load bearing. Plumbing was already conveniently in the walls, (it backed up to the main bathroom), so all I did was upgrade the counter top electrical with GFI's & a separate outlet to the dishwasher. The fridge went into an existing single circuit to the panel.

    Yet on improving egress & fire safety etc throughout the building we had to get a commercial architect involved.

    1Reply
  • Marcus Auerbach
    Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Emily L. Wiersema you will not need an architect, but Milwaukee will require some plans. You can either draw them up yourselves or you can ask you carpenter to help you with that. Maybe you have a friend who is an engineer and will help you? 

    If the wall is load bearing you will need a header to span the opening - think of it like a bridge that has to span the distance and carry the weight of the structure above. If it's more than just a few feet, you will probably use aa LVL (laminated veneer lumber) beam, which will require a load calculation. Some lumber yards can do that for you.

    You want to make sure your carpenter knows what he's doing when installing the beam, otherwise you will see cracks in the drywall or worse later on - think snow load next winter.

    The easy way is to install the beam under the ceiling, but the you loose room height. Much nicer is a hidden flush mounted beam which sits in te attick and the joists hang from the beam. This way you have a nice open ceiling without interruption.

    3Reply
  • Emily L. Wiersema
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2019 · 26 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    Thanks @Marcus Auerbach an answer machine! And everyone! I'm getting confirmation it is not load bearing, but I don't believe so. Time to put my drawing skills to the test!

    0Reply
  • Marcus Auerbach
    Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Emily L. Wiersema:

    Thanks @Marcus Auerbach an answer machine! And everyone! I'm getting confirmation it is not load bearing, but I don't believe so. Time to put my drawing skills to the test!

    One way to tell if a wall is load bearing is if it sits right on top of a basement support post or on top of the steel I-beam or wooded carriage beam that spans across the basement. But always best to let a pro look at it.

    0Reply
  • Joseph H.
    Kansas City, MO · Member since 2018 · 91 posts · 30 votes
    6y

    @Samuel Pavlovcik That is correct. 

    0Reply
  • Jared W SmithBusiness Member
    Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 684 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Marcus Auerbach - Most urban and suburban cities/towns require someone to assume responsibility and also take liability for areas of design and construction which affect public life, welfare and safety.   

     Per City of Milwaukee Code Building and Zoning Code Ordinances Vol 2 200-26. Application for Permits. An architect or engineer (design professional) is required for many projects types. (See:https://city.milwaukee.gov/Ima...) 

    Permits required for these project type: See https://city.milwaukee.gov/obt...

    @Emily L. Wiersema you should call them before putting in effort creating drawings that still require a design professional to sign/seal.  

    Jared W. Smith, RA

    Principal Architect - Architect Owl

    Architect Owl PLLC521 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
  • Eli Na
    Toms River, NJ · Member since 2026 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    1w

    What's worked for me on rehabs: call the building department and ask exactly which drawings this scope needs. Cosmetic work usually needs none. Moving walls, plumbing or electrical usually needs a floor plan. Structural changes need a stamped engineer letter or drawing. For non-structural layout changes, many towns accept owner- or contractor-drawn plans if they're to scale (1/4" = 1'-0"), dimensioned, and show existing vs. proposed (dashed = removed, solid = new). Keep a standard sheet size (24x36 is the norm for full sets, 11x17 for small jobs) and bring the number of copies they ask for. Many still want 2–3 paper sets even with e-submittal. Budget-wise, a draftsman for a simple floor plan is often a few hundred dollars, versus an architect for anything structural. Ask the plan reviewer whether they have a sample of an approved homeowner set; it saves a resubmittal.

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free