Cash flow is NOT king!

Cash flow is NOT king!

Arn CenedellaPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2008 · 786 posts · 1k+ votes

“Cash flow is king” is a mantra to many.

It’s repeated over and over in forums and conferences. 

I am not a “cash flow is king” investor

Pending one’s stage in life and career, I submit growing equity and increasing net worth should be the goal of most investors in their 30s and 40s and perhaps even in their 50s - as they enter and are in their prime income years. Presumably someone who has cash to buy investment real estate has a W2 income sufficient to cover their total monthly cost of living - their “job” pays for their lifestyle. So they don’t need cash flow to live off of. From folks in that position, I submit it’s better to invest for capital growth. Properties should pay for themselves with some cash flow left over to cover unexpected expenses. But the focus in my should opinion should be on long term capital growth.

Question: Who will be able to generate more cash flow when they want and need it?

Investor A with $1M of investible assets

Or

Investor B with $3M if investible assets

The answer is obvious, it’s investor B.

I see countless investors talking about buying a cash flow property.

I see countless brokers and owners trying to sell property by indicating “it’s a cash flow property”.

If I may offer my perspective on:

Does the property cash flow?

It’s an incomplete question with no answer.
I believe an additional layer of detail and sophistication is required.

I submit:

Every property will cash flow if you buy with all cash. Right?

So the better question the more informative question is:

What size cash down payment do I need to make so that the property cash flows?

Does an investor need to put 20% down or 30% or 50% down to cash flow?

That’s the better question.

Any question or statement about cash flow only has meaning when connected to the amount of cash required to buy it.

And yes in todays market with todays debt costs, I suspect most SFRs will require 30% to 40% down to cash flow. In my opinion you won’t find cash flow with 20% down unless the property and location are horrible. Even MF assets require 30% to 35% down to provide some cash flow. 

The “popular” opinion isn’t always the best opinion. 

One should tailor their investment approach to their assets - education income capital knowledge experience etc etc - and their goals. 

I’d submit investing for capital growth is by far the better option for many. 

Aim to hit line drive base hits not grand slams. 


55Reply
453 views

Most Popular Reply

Joe VilleneuvePro Member
Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
3y

 The problem with you conclusion is you are assuming the person buying CF properties is buying properties that won't appreciate.  One without the other is a fools game.  You have to have both, or don't buy.

See this reply in the discussion

127 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Arn Cenedella:
    Quote from @Andrzej Lipski:
    Quote from @Arn Cenedella:
    Quote from @Andrzej Lipski:
    Quote from @Arn Cenedella:

    “Cash flow is king” is a mantra to many.

    It’s repeated over and over in forums and conferences. 

    I am not a “cash flow is king” investor

    I respect your opinion and I'm approaching my 50s and I have a growth mindset but I disagree with your statement about cashflow not being king. In residential real estate you are probably right because of the way properties are appraised for value. 

    But if you are int he commercial space, multifamily 5+ units Cashflow is and will always be king. Without it you can't achieve growth not matter how hot the market is. I'm sure a hot market can drive cap rates down and sitting on a negative cashflow property might appreciate a bit over time but that runs contrary to your goal which is to grow fast. It also take your own decision making out of the equation you are left to the whims of the market. 

    If I have a $2mil property, 20 units with an NOI of $216k and a cap rate of 10.8% and I replace appliances in all my unit ($2000/unit or $40k of rehab)) and raise rents by $100 dollars I increased the value of the property to $2.1mil. For a $40k investment I made $100k. All by increasing cashflow.

    I am the owner and operator as General Partner on over 1100 apartment units worth say $150M so I am well aware of the value of commercial real estate and how to increase value. 

    I didn’t say cash flow is unimportant. I just say I focus more on equity growth. Yes the value of commercial real estate is based on net operating income not cash flow which is dependent on financing. 

    Your own post actually highlights the growth in equity from value add. You invest $40K to increase value $100K, you just increased your net worth $60K. 

    So it’s both cash flow and equity growth. 

    Well if you wrote a headline to get engagement and then walk it back then mission accomplished.

    @Andrzej Lipski

    What are you talking about?

    Read thru all my comments and I consistently indicate investing for equity growth is primary. Yes cash flow is important. But equity growth is primary.

    Do you comment just to be a troll?


    The most important item for persons to comprehend is the fundamental truth being shared/detailed that Appreciation CREATES cash-flow. 

    Cash-flow is a result, not a thing in and of itself. Cash-flow is only a result. Appreciation creates equity, equity in operation translates into cash-flow. More equity in operation, MORE cash-flow. 

    So yes, 100%, persons should hunt NOT for cash-flow but for APPRECIAITION opportunities, where that appreciation has duration and deployment into operation, to monetize the appreciation, better known as "cash-flow". 

    Either a person "get's it" or doesn't. 

  • Arn CenedellaPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2008 · 786 posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @James Hamling:
    Quote from @Arn Cenedella:
    Quote from @Andrzej Lipski:
    Quote from @Arn Cenedella:
    Quote from @Andrzej Lipski:
    Quote from @Arn Cenedella:

    “Cash flow is king” is a mantra to many.

    It’s repeated over and over in forums and conferences. 

    I am not a “cash flow is king” investor

    I respect your opinion and I'm approaching my 50s and I have a growth mindset but I disagree with your statement about cashflow not being king. In residential real estate you are probably right because of the way properties are appraised for value. 

    But if you are int he commercial space, multifamily 5+ units Cashflow is and will always be king. Without it you can't achieve growth not matter how hot the market is. I'm sure a hot market can drive cap rates down and sitting on a negative cashflow property might appreciate a bit over time but that runs contrary to your goal which is to grow fast. It also take your own decision making out of the equation you are left to the whims of the market. 

    If I have a $2mil property, 20 units with an NOI of $216k and a cap rate of 10.8% and I replace appliances in all my unit ($2000/unit or $40k of rehab)) and raise rents by $100 dollars I increased the value of the property to $2.1mil. For a $40k investment I made $100k. All by increasing cashflow.

    I am the owner and operator as General Partner on over 1100 apartment units worth say $150M so I am well aware of the value of commercial real estate and how to increase value. 

    I didn’t say cash flow is unimportant. I just say I focus more on equity growth. Yes the value of commercial real estate is based on net operating income not cash flow which is dependent on financing. 

    Your own post actually highlights the growth in equity from value add. You invest $40K to increase value $100K, you just increased your net worth $60K. 

    So it’s both cash flow and equity growth. 

    Well if you wrote a headline to get engagement and then walk it back then mission accomplished.

    @Andrzej Lipski

    What are you talking about?

    Read thru all my comments and I consistently indicate investing for equity growth is primary. Yes cash flow is important. But equity growth is primary.

    Do you comment just to be a troll?


    The most important item for persons to comprehend is the fundamental truth being shared/detailed that Appreciation CREATES cash-flow. 

    Cash-flow is a result, not a thing in and of itself. Cash-flow is only a result. Appreciation creates equity, equity in operation translates into cash-flow. More equity in operation, MORE cash-flow. 

    So yes, 100%, persons should hunt NOT for cash-flow but for APPRECIAITION opportunities, where that appreciation has duration and deployment into operation, to monetize the appreciation, better known as "cash-flow". 

    Either a person "get's it" or doesn't. 

    Good point. It’s kind of what comes first - chicken or the egg question.

    Higher cash flow from higher NOI does increase value leading to appreciation.

    That being said, one needs sufficient equity to create enough cash flow to provide financial freedom.

    One can not create $120,000 annual passive income with $100,000 invested.
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.