Need to replace whole house furnace. I'm currently paying gas...

Need to replace whole house furnace. I'm currently paying gas...

Real Estate Investor · Marysville, OH · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 196 votes

One of my 4-plex units I recently purchased in a hot suburb in the Cleveland Ohio area has a furnace that needs replacing.  I knew this was going to be a cost early on, so that's not a big deal in and of itself.

It is a whole building furnace, that supplies heat to all 4 units.  The owner (myself) is currently paying the gas because the units are not sub-metered.  It's < $200 per month now, but of course I expect winter will be substantially more.  In any case, I would say that it's going to costing me a minimum of $200 per month in perpetuity.

I am very keen on the notion of using this as an opportunity to significantly change my cash flow on the building by eliminating the gas bill (for me, anyway:)  I see a few options:

1.) Just replace the furnace, keep paying the gas.  Cost me 2-3 grand and the continued monthly bill in perpetuity.

2.) Sub-meter each apartment in the building with its own gas meter.  This would require FOUR meters, FOUR new furnaces, and also at least two more hot water tanks since there are 2 for the whole building now.  Possibly other issues such as insufficient supply line for 4 meters or whatever other gas related extra work.

3.) Put in elec baseboard heat or electric-hydronic baseboard heat in the units.  Everyone just has an electric bill to worry about.  Possible upgrade panel work if existing is insufficient to add this.  Probably toss in 4 new elec water tanks as well.

4.) Any other ideas I haven't thought about.

I would love to hear ideas.  I think this is going to be an awesome long term building.  I would like to make it even awesome-er.

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  • Investor · Marysville, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    Hey Marc, I am anxiously awaiting others inputs on your post here....great question and I like your approach to turn this problem into opportunity. My gut feel is option 3 looks like an simpler path for you if you can get the electric work done reasonably.

  • Investor · Parma, OH · Member since 2016 · 101 posts · 46 votes
    9y

    I'm interested if anyone knows what the associated costs for sub-metering units are in Cleveland and what the restrictions/obstacles for sub-metering electric, gas, and water.  I've got a duplex and I've kind of kicked around the same idea except with water.  Whenever something needs replacing, will it be feasible to drop rent by say $25 per month, sub meter the water, and pass the water/sewer expenses on to the tenants?

  • Real Estate Investor · Marysville, OH · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 196 votes
    9y

    I'd will follow up here when I get info on the feasibility of #2 since that will involve sub-metering gas.

    Pretty much everywhere in Cleveland, the water/sewer has to stay in owner name, so you would basically be charging tenants for something that is never in their name.  I'm not sure what recourse you would have if they don't pay the water.  Given that, I think just making it part of the rent and having the rents reflect that is sort of the standard play for everywhere I have a unit.

    My gut reaction on my original post is also #3 being the best option if it can be done for a reasonable cost.  One of the biggest pains with rentals for me is dealing with utilities and switching in and out of your name.  If I can cut one utility completely out of the mix, that's even better!

    Head contractor for my units is looking into the various options to see what ones are most practical and affordable.

  • Investor · Plano, TX · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 27 votes
    9y

    If it's a long term hold then sub metering is going to best the best way.  The upfront cost can be significant (as you've found) but also does technically increase the value of the building (using the income valuation approach).  

    Depending on the age of the building be careful about any work being done on the panel.  Some City's will come in and require that you bring the entire building up to code.  Higher chance of that with a multi-unit property versus a single family.  Depending on what year of the NEC the City follows it could mean full AFCI/GFCI and tamper resistant outlets.  A massive cost that basically requires either a full rewire of the building or potentially extensive troubleshooting.  

    There are a number of companies that will go read meters and bill the tenants for you.  So while the account needs to be in your name these companies will basically do the billback for you.  And with sub meters you can bill back 100% of the cost (whereas for water and electricity most places only allow a certain percentage if its not sub metered).  

    I think if you calculated your numbers based on a cash on cash return it might surprise you, plus would give you more cash flow so ideally helping you to qualify for larger loans on subsequent investments.  

    If you used a 20% return method based on $200/mo then you would be looking at being able to spend $12k or 3k a unit.  I don't know how pricing looks in your area, but $3k a unit would come very close to getting it done for the furnaces but not the water heaters.  

  • Real Estate Investor · Marysville, OH · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 196 votes
    9y

    Unfortunately it turned out not really to be possible to sub-meter the gas, becauase there was not room to add 4 furnaces and separate ductwork for the units.  (The units are fairly small.)

    I also discovered some or all of the units also have gas stoves in the kitchen along with the common gas water heaters.

    In the short term, I simply replaced the whole house furnace and kicked the can down the road.  I am likely going to still do an electric conversion, but not just yet.

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