Trying to help my girlfriend/ fiancee get the big picture

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Trying to help my girlfriend/ fiancee get the big picture

Quinton Slay
St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes

My girlfriend and I are trying to buy a 4 family home in Rhode Island. We want to live in a unit and rent the other three units (House hacking). My girlfriend seems to not understand why we need to house hack opposed to just buying a single family house.  She also seems to lack a business mindset. The fact she doesn't understand why we need to run credit checks on tenants and require co-signers depending on age or credit history is concerning. 

We've established we will house hack our way to our "forever home" or "Dream home" but she keeps making comments about amenities she wants within the home that you just don't find in any apartment in America. 

She is really trying to understand what I'm talking about and has even been reading all of my emails between myself, a banker, and people I've found here on BP and she still doesn't understand whats going on. I've tried to get her to read Brandon Turner's book but she's too busy with Social Work school. She has listened to one of the podcast and didn't feel moved or enlightened and I've tried to explain things to her for a couple of months now and she says she still doesn't understand. I am trying to be patient and I want her to understand what we are doing before we meet with an agent in September but I am running out of ideas on how to break this all down to her. 

Has anyone experienced the same thing? If so, how did you overcome it?

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Maybe a different book will help get her excited to read it?

Maybe she's just not that into this like I am? I'm really not sure at this point and I just need some help.

Should I just handle it all and tell her "Ok. This is the address of our home for the next year or so." Then a year or two later, move us to another 4 family building and so on until we can buy a single family? I'd like to help her understand how investing of any kind works but it's just getting frustrating at this point.

Thanks!

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Ryan Kinsella
Contractor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 89 votes
9y

Dump her.

I'm kidding don't do that.  You probably aren't going to have any luck changing her to a business minded person, but there might be some other ways to get her interested.  If there are some upgrades needed in the unit you are moving into, give her a budget and let her take the lead on fixtures or appliances.  Sometimes people that might not be interested in the business side can knock things out of the park from the creative side.

Or, you can always designate one of the units as her engagement ring fund.  That's a good way to dangle the carrot.

73Reply
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  • Ryan Kinsella
    Contractor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 89 votes
    9y

    Dump her.

    I'm kidding don't do that.  You probably aren't going to have any luck changing her to a business minded person, but there might be some other ways to get her interested.  If there are some upgrades needed in the unit you are moving into, give her a budget and let her take the lead on fixtures or appliances.  Sometimes people that might not be interested in the business side can knock things out of the park from the creative side.

    Or, you can always designate one of the units as her engagement ring fund.  That's a good way to dangle the carrot.

    73Reply
  • Michael Lucero
    Rental Property Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2016 · 164 posts · 149 votes
    9y

    Half of what you are doing or more shouldnt be expected to change her mind, you are just showing her random dicussions with a banker and random people from a website and expecting her to change her value system? Why not have her read a widely accepted book that has transformed the mindset of many, such as rich dad poor dad, millionaire next door, etc. You also have to make it connect on an emotional level, talk/sell her on the lifestyle you can have if you do your stuff in the long term, whereas the life of rat race and standard two weeks off a year if you go the other route, after living in a house for a month or two, the honeymoon phase is over and its back to the grind. She isnt motivated by the same things you are.

    She probably just needs to get educated on a very simple level of the true benefitd of being business minded and how it can help you live the life you want. Maybe she doesn't even know whats possible so of course she doesnt want it.

    13Reply
  • James Fede
    North Kingstown, RI · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    9y
    My friend can help you finance great guy
    0Reply
  • Quinton Slay
    OP
    St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes
    9y

    Thanks, @Ryan Kinsella I will keep that in mind. I'm sure she can do some interior design of all the units if needed. Great idea. Something I didn't even think of!

    @Michael Lucero Thanks, Rich Dad Poor Dad is a book I didn't think of. Maybe it will get her on track.

    @James Fede Who does your friend work for?

    2Reply
  • James Fede
    North Kingstown, RI · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    9y
    He works for embrace home loans
    1Reply
  • Paul Choi
    Rental Property Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2017 · 350 posts · 611 votes
    9y

    I can sort of relate. My wife is an excellent doctor but cannot handle finances and money management. She doesn't understand investment vehicles, loan terms, 401k's, what's a good or bad property, ROI, etc. BUT she supports me 100% in what I do and do for our family. I support her 100% in her career as well. That is key - support and trust. Just because I do real estate does not mean I have to get my wife involved in every aspect. I enjoy conversations at the dinner table because it's not all about real estate. It's about her day, my day, goals, plans and vacations. Your girlfriend may not be into property investments, but make sure she supports you.

    34Reply
  • Quinton Slay
    OP
    St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes
    9y

    Ok, @James Fede What is his location? You can send me a Private message with his contact information if you have a second.

    0Reply
  • Quinton Slay
    OP
    St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes
    9y

    @Paul Choi This is great. I've been wondering if she's into real estate like I am. If she's not, that's fine. I support her and she supports me. 

    The main reason I am trying to get her involved is that I currently live in St. Louis Missouri and she just moved home to Rhode Island. I don't know the area well and I don't know anyone there besides her, and her family. Because of that, I think she should be involved in the first deal/house hack because it impacts her as much as it impacts me because we plan to live in one of the units for a period of time. 

    I am basically asking her to find a location and just talk to people about what we're trying to do. Nothing too crazy. That's when she starts up with the other unnecessary stuff. 

    Would you agree She should pick the location, and I find the deal and handle the financing and business end of it and she just live happily? 

    0Reply
  • Paul Choi
    Rental Property Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2017 · 350 posts · 611 votes
    9y

    @Quinton Slay If I was in your shoes I would approach it that way. Even though she knows the area better, I don't get the impression that she will pick a location from an investment point of view.  I would get her input on location and set an area 10-15 mile radius and find deals in the area.  Sure she can talk to people but I don't think she would be asking the right questions to get the right content.  You would be better off doing it yourself.  Property investment in most locations can be good if the deal is right and the numbers work.

    5Reply
  • Joseph M.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    9y
    It can be pretty hard to change someone's mindset . They have to be open to change . You mentioned that she said she doesn't have time to read . How about audio books ? You can also find them for free at many libraries and also many libraries give you the ability to borrow audiobooks that you can listen to on your phone . I think as the other poster mentioned Rich Dad Poor Dad is a great beginner book. Also you mentioned girlfriend but put fiancée in the headline . I know many don't recommend buying property with those that you aren't married too but only you would know how serious the relationship is . Just seems like things could get a little messy . In the beginning you say "we want to buy a 4plex" but then later it sounds like you are saying she doesn't really want to do that . Dave Ramsey might be a good one for her to listen to also . You can listen to the podcast free on your smartphone , etc . Although I haven't really heard him talk about househacking but it seems like the type of ting he would be into . But he often says the phrase , "Live like no one else so you can live and give like no one else" In this case it would be "sacrificing" living in an apartment unit ( that you own ) .. so that you could later live in a nice single family home . Driving a "crap" car today so that later you can buy that sports car .. in cash ( if you want to ). At the end of the day though she just might not want this setup and if she isn't happy living in a 4plex then it could cause a lot of stress in your relationship . I wouldn't just go ahead and do it without her really being onboard . Another Dave Ramsey quote i like , "Normal is broke. Normal is a Victim Mentality. Normal sucks. BE WEIRD." Best of luck to you
    12Reply
  • Quinton Slay
    OP
    St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes
    9y

    Thanks, @Paul Choi and @Joseph M. I this is really helpful advice. I will be sure to try both ideas!

    Thanks!

    1Reply
  • Joseph M.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    9y
    Please update us on the situation. I've heard some good things about St Louis as a cash flow market . In L.A it's not uncommon to see 4plexes now for $1 million or more not even for a great area . It's more an appreciation/speculation play and some of these older 4plexes and multi family get redeveloped eventually.
    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 24 votes
    9y

    Hi Quinton!

    I'm brand new to the BP community and your question caught my eye! My husband and I actually JUST went under contract for our first investment property (4-unit building), and we also plan on house hacking. When J (my better half) first brought up the idea of investment properties to me I shot it right down. He explained everything he possibly could about what investing and house hacking would mean for us, he showed me the numbers (I even ran them myself), and he bought me the books! I was still super skeptical, not because the number didn't add up, not because I don't believe we're capable, and not because I was too busy.

    I was deathly afraid of being someone who profited off of other people by over charging for housing. I didn't want to be part of the "system" that profits from eviction, and I didn't want to judge/value potential residents based on their earned income. Many of my perceptions and experiences of real estate investors and landlords have been awful. How could I possibly stay true to the social justice (based on my social work experience) that I believe in deeply and choose this path of earning income? I finally realized that by becoming an investor I would have the power to be a better landlord than those who treated me and my family poorly. I started seeing the opportunities for social justice action within property management. My perceptions shifted to possibilities for the future, and I realized I could create positive change through owning properties.

    You mentioned that your girlfriend is studying social work, and I wonder if she might be struggling with determining if this fits into her identity in the social work space? I share this part of my story with you because there are so many reasons why she could be disinterested. I would encourage you to take her to her favorite coffee shop or dinner spot, ask her why she seems disinterested, and then listen.

    BEST OF LUCK!!!

    24Reply
  • Robert Hudson
    Crossville, TN · Member since 2017 · 121 posts · 168 votes
    9y

    This is a relationship issue, not a real estate issue. If your partner's goals and expectations are not aligned with your's then they become a liability to your success.  Dont expect a dog to fly and a bird to bark. select a partner in business or life for their core nature. You cant change the core.

    8Reply
  • Quinton Slay
    OP
    St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes
    9y

    Yes, I definitely plan to invest in St. Louis as well.

    0Reply
  • Linda S.
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Quinton Slay,

    Sounds like she is overwhelmed, and is shutting down.    She also may feel like you're pushing her to do something that she may not want to do.    I'd emphasize the plan with her, what's your exit strategy?   How long does she have to be a little multi-family before she gets a gorgeous house she wants?     If she's analytical, show her facts,.. if she's more emotionally based, push that it's short term, and show her logically, houses you can get with all the extra income afterwards!!    My gut tells me it's way too much for her, between deal analysis, property management, etc.. on top of her school?   She is likely stressed!   She doesn't have your passion, that's okay.. but that also doesn't mean she can't be a part!  Tell her you can be in charge of tenant selection, and that when you have a good one, you can bring it to her for approval, since ya know.. you guys are sharing a multi-family house together!   Don't push her to learn something she doesn't really care about, and instead, focus on ways she can help!   Have her pick out the vanities, paint, stuff like that, fun and easy stuff so she feels involved!    

    5Reply
  • Kyle McCorkel
    Rental Property Investor · Hummelstown, PA · Member since 2015 · 638 posts · 653 votes
    9y

    @Quinton Slay

    This is a common issue that comes up from time to time on BP.

    A few thoughts:

    • It is rare for both spouses/significant others to have the same amount of fire and ambition.
    • Some (most) people are just happy to work their 9-5 jobs and don't want to worry about investing or starting a business.  This is OK!

    I personally had this issue with my wife when we first started out.  I can't say there is any one answer to this - every relationship is different - but here is how we dealt with it:  

    We listened to many podcasts together and also Rich Dad Poor Dad on Audible.  We also spent a lot of time discussing the big picture...the WHY.  We started by asking ourselves what we really wanted out of life...what does our perfect life look like in 5, 10, 15 years? For us, we see ourselves financially free, not having to work full time jobs, a few kids, and we want to have a lake house where we spend most of our summers.  When we defined this vision, it makes it a lot easier to link that future success to your current real estate endeavors.  You just work backwards saying - in order to reach our ideal lifestyle we need (for example) $10k per month in passive income, and we want to reach that point in (for example) 10 years.  So you need to generate $1K additional income every year for 10 years.  Maybe you generate $250 per month, per property (maybe more if you are talking about house hacking a 4-plex).  So your goal would be to buy 4 properties per year, in this example.

    Anyways, I felt like "beginning with the end in mind" really resonated with my wife.  Now she (as well as me) doesn't think of it as buying another ugly house - it's just another brick in the foundation of building our ideal life!

    One more thing, it also helps to convince her that you are protected if things go wrong.  Things like asset protection, plenty of cash reserves, and not burning bridges in your current 9-5 jobs.  My thought is that if all my real estate endeavors burned to the ground, the worst case is I end up working until I'm 65...which is where I would have been had I not even tried anyways!

    12Reply
  • Jason Chen
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 240 posts · 153 votes
    9y

    some people will just not "get it", despite the fact that absolutely nothing in real estate is rocket science, even at the highest tiers of buying and selling.

    the very essence of real estate can be boiled down to this simple statement:

    "MY REAL ESTATE INCOME IS BIGGER THAN REAL ESTATE EXPENSES, YES? If the answer is yes, continue to do what you are doing while figuring out an even mroe efficient way to do it. If the answer is no, then do not continue to do what you are doing."

    Your girlfriend sounds entitled and spoiled, as well as not very bright. I'm 99% sure this will cause future problems in your relationship with her or evolve into worse, and about 1% sure it won't. The day you start making something like $350,000-$400,000 a year from passive income about 7 to 9 years from now, and you pull up in a brand new Porsche or Corvette or something, she will then mysteriously "get it" all of a sudden. 

    3Reply
  • Stewart Wyne
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 41 posts · 31 votes
    9y

    Here's my 2 cents. 

    Different people think differently about life, and have different risk profiles. I tried to get my wife engaged and excited about RE early on. After years of failure, I realized I was trying to make her excited about something she'll never be excited about. I also realized that she doesn't like taking risks. So we just agreed to keep it completely separate. I do the RE thing, and she doesn't. 

    Point being, don't try and get her excited about it. Don't expect her to even help with it. If you want to do it, make it your thing. 

    For your situation, I'd talk less about how house hacking is profitable or exciting, and more phrase it as something you are excited about and want to try, and ask her to support you in this effort to make your lives better.  She may be more receptive to that. 

    11Reply
  • Quinton Slay
    OP
    St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes
    9y

    Hey @Account Closed I will give that approach a try. in the end, I am just trying to make our lives better. Thanks for the advice! 

    3Reply
  • Jason Chen
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 240 posts · 153 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Quinton Slay:

    Hey @Account Closed I will give that approach a try. in the end, I am just trying to make our lives better. Thanks for the advice! 

    im merely translating what everyone here means to say, but theyre just too polite and politically correct to say it in the way that i said it

    its all up to you what you want to do. i understand youre just here to ask for other people's opinions, and well, im here to give mine. if you dont want these opinions, them simply dont ask for them.

    this woman is talking about having you buy the things she wants for herself (updates to house), and having you pay for them just because "youre her boyfriend". she doesnt appear to have an income yet. shes racked up tons of debt in student loans, and the very job shes going to classes for pays a notoriously low amount of money. from what it sounds like, this is the definition of entitlement and stupidity. i would feel pretty selfish if i were to even mention something as ridiculous as that, and yet im earning nothing.

    so suddenly im the bad guy simply warning you about this woman? the rude thing for me to say is to tell you to stick with this woman and say the total opposite of what i just said, but im not going to do that since most of the time, it will end up in a catastrophe either to your relationship or your bank account.

    its pretty clear to me that her "financial blueprint" is set for having less than zero net worth, and yours is set for much higher than zero. when you mix these two opposites in a relationship, its only a matter of time before something bad happens. it might not be today, or a year from now, or even fifteen years from now, but it will eventually happen. theres more women out there who have the same mindset as you to meet.

    5Reply
  • Quinton Slay
    OP
    St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes
    9y

    @Jason Chen while I totally understand and agree that the differences in financial goals could create a problem down the line, it is still very rude for you to jump here and give bad relationship advice when I didn't ask for your relationship advice. I asked how to help her see the bigger picture. She agrees that house hacking in the way to go but she wants help understanding business so she can contribute and you've gone off the deep end and called her spoiled and stupid. I am. It sure where you get off thinking that is ok. I'm not even sure why you think I'm here for relationship advice. Just about everyone else offered up meaningful advice and experiences. But you're getting in your feelings because I told you I don't appreciate your rude comment? Get real.

    4Reply
  • Jason Chen
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 240 posts · 153 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Quinton Slay:

    @Jason Chen while I totally understand and agree that the differences in financial goals could create a problem down the line, it is still very rude for you to jump here and give bad relationship advice when I didn't ask for your relationship advice. I asked how to help her see the bigger picture. She agrees that house hacking in the way to go but she wants help understanding business so she can contribute and you've gone off the deep end and called her spoiled and stupid. I am. It sure where you get off thinking that is ok. I'm not even sure why you think I'm here for relationship advice. Just about everyone else offered up meaningful advice and experiences. But you're getting in your feelings because I told you I don't appreciate your rude comment? Get real.

     basically im telling you that i think you should find someone else and you should just skip the whole "how do i get her to understand the whole real estate" thing. is it unsolicited? perhaps. but is it smart?..................yes.........

    who knows what this person wants once you start making extra cash. first it might be some enormous 24k gold bracelet. then it'll be some brand new BMW or something. if im the rude and bad guy for helping someone prevent themselves from being financially taken advantage of by going slightly off topic on a message board, then fine, sue me

    1Reply
  • Billie Miller
    Real Estate Agent · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 151 posts · 101 votes
    9y

    This would take some work, but maybe you could show her the advantages of house hacking in real numbers? 

    So show her your budget if you house hack vs. your budget if you buy a single family home. Then take it a step further and show her home much you'll be making in rental income when you move out. 

    Also, on the amenities front. Maybe just let that one go for now. When you guys do buy a house and she starts to see how much the granite countertops cost vs. the laminate (or whatever the amenity is) she might realize what's reasonable.

    2Reply
  • Quinton Slay
    OP
    St. Louis, MISSOURI (MO) · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 72 votes
    9y
    Jason Chen I'm going to assume you failed to read my post in its entirety. I never said she was asking for anything. No BMW, no enormous bracelets, nothing. I said she's struggling to understand the business side of real estate investing. She asked me for help, I tried and it doesn't seem to help so now I turned to your guys and you didn't come close to answering any part of the post.
    0Reply
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