Mortgage Underwriting Guidelines & DTI - (@Bill Gulley)

Mortgage Underwriting Guidelines & DTI - (@Bill Gulley)

Finance, Credit, and Insurance · Northwestern, PA · Member since 2015 · 56 posts · 20 votes

In another thread, @Bill Gulley and I had a brief discussion on underwriting guidelines. Rather than take that thread off topic, I created this one to hopefully further the discussion. The main contention was whether a lender will consider excessive availability of revolving credit (large open credit card limits) as a negative in calculating your ability to pay or DTI.

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Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

I assume the credit underwriting you do is with insurance risks, I'd agree.

You can check fannie mae underwriting, if a credit card has a zero balance, and that account is still open, half the high credit amount that had been used is used to compute debt ratios. High credit outstanding within a year, say $5,000.00, at application it has a zero balance, say terms of that card are 3% of balance out standing, then it would be:

$2500 x 3% = $75.00 payment computed to the debt ratio.

This is because, under prudent LOAN underwriting, it is assumed if the account is open, it will be used. That is why I suggested to close accounts not used.

Lenders look at the ability to pay, not your ability to carry credit long term or create more credit. Now, the other side is the ability to carry credit is to other dealings, you have the debt and meet the obligations, like your insurance company, they don't care how much you make but they do want to see you paying everything as agreed and they don't like seeing you in a financial bind, that's an indication for making false claims.

We're talking loans for real estate here, at least I am. :)

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@Bill Gulley, I hope you'll take some time to discuss this as it is of great interest to me and you seem knowledgeable in this area. To clarify, I underwrite loans and sell insurance. I don't underwrite for an insurance company.

I researched the Fannie Mae guidelines a bit since I have no experience with this type of entity. I did find a list of guidelines at: https://www.fanniemae.com/content/guide/selling/b3... titled: B3-6-02: Debt-to-Income Ratios (09/29/2015)

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There is a specific section addressing this topic:

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Calculating Total Monthly Obligation

The total monthly obligation is the sum of the following:

  • the monthly housing expense of the borrower's principal residence (or the qualifying payment amount if the subject mortgage loan is secured by the borrower's principal residence (see B3-6-03, Monthly Housing Expense));
  • the qualifying payment amount if the subject mortgage loan is secured by a second home or investment property (see B3-6-04, Qualifying Payment Requirements);
  • monthly payments on installment debts and other mortgage debts that extend beyond ten months;
  • monthly payments on installment debts and other mortgage debts that extend ten months or less if the payments significantly affect the borrower
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Loan Officer / Processor / Life & Health Agent · Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 757 votes
10y

If you have a credit card that has a zero balance and the credit limit is 10,000 or whatever this will not affect your DTI.

DTI is based on payments not your debt.

Fannie Mae used to make you close your c.c. account if it was being paid off through the loan. They recently changed this and now the account doesn't need to be paid off.

Example on DTI

Mr. Jones makes 10,000 a month gross and is a wage earner. He has the following debts:

Capital one card: Balance $10,756 Payment $202

Ford Motor Credit: Balance $33,987 Payment $309

H.E.L.O.C.: Balance $90,000 Total that can be drawn $100,000 (in this case the UW will calculate the payment based on $100,000) PAYMENT 400

New First Mortgage: $200,000 Payment $1500 (Including taxes and insurance)

Total DEBT: 344, 743 Total PAYMENTS: 2,411

In this case the DTI will be 5.11/24.11 now during the refinance you don't want to use any c.c's because it could affect your DU/LP findings. This is why good loan officers tell you not to buy, co sign or use any credit cards and if you can avoid using any reserves.

Just as a side not I think DTI ( debt to income ratio ) should be changed to PTI ( payments to income ratio)

I hope this helps and I speak about this briefly in my interview on the Joe Fairless Show earlier this year. The link is on my profile.

Have a great day.  

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  • San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    For anyone coming across this after October 24th, 2016 - I believe they have changed things so that credit cards with a balance of $0 are not included in your DTI calculation.

    Also, note that the guidelines instruct lenders to look at credit utilization history as a factor so if you've been carrying large balances and just paid everything off, they may take notice. That doesn't appear to be a DQ from the guidelines perspective but, as mentioned in this thread, each lender can be more strict if they want to be.

    Source: https://www.fanniemae.com/content/guide/selling/b3...

    Am I correct here @Bill Gulley  @Nicholas B.  @Charlie Fitzgerald  @Brian Gibbons  @Russell Brazil  @Shaun Weekes  @Lynn McGeein ?

    DISCLAIMER: I am not a professional in this or any related field. I advise everyone to seek professional guidance before taking any action.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    What I'm seeing is that Fannie guidelines are being considered the requirement for a lender to make a loan. Not so.

    If a` lender wants to sell a mortgage in the secondary market, the Fannie/Freddie/FHA/VA/USDA guidelines are the minimum requirement to block new loans (purchase or REFI) into a securitized package.

    What can be more important is the type of institutional lender and their supervisory agency, ie. FDIC or Treasury and more over, you'll find regional influence affecting what can be considered prudent or wild and crazy lending (usually because of home prices).

    Overlays have already been mentioned, it's not just what Fannie requires but what is considered "prudent lending practices" for that type of loan, the institution, in that region and other factors play on specific lender's as to their ratings and solvency. 

    Underwriting guidelines come from loan experience, bad loans have things in common and loan losses, to slow payments identify risks. To paint a picture with a broad brush, Fannie puts out minimum standards that investors have been guaranteed, as to the quality of the investment. Loan losses and poorly performing loans cannot be eliminated and there is tolerance within the bond portfolio for the fall out. 

    A lender may circumvent some underwriting guidelines adopted in the secondary, for many reasons but one simply to be more competitive. Large DTI is rather irrelevant after time has passed, the further the originated loan is from initial compliance the longer it may take to become accepted by a buyer or the secondary market. Remember too, loans sold in the secondary are the responsibility or the originating lender or seller and if they go bad they may be required to repurchase the loan.

    And, because no lender wants to repurchase loans,  they add "overlays" basing their originations in a` more prudent manner. 

    What you're also considering in this thread are "contingent liabilities" the possibility of additional debt being created. 

    When Fannie says you don't need to count a % of median or high balances of a zero balance credit card, they are really saying "in order for you to sell us that loan, you don't have to do this or that".

    That doesn't mean a lender may not originate their loans in a more prudent manner and most do.

    Okay, so if I'm sitting at the loan  officer's desk, I need to know what guideline is currently in effect, I'm taking applications!

    It's much more relevant for investors attempting to borrow to understand the underlying parameters of underwriting guidelines than trying to memorize them and then stay current with adjustments. The old 24/36 ration for residential loans is on the prudent side but FHA can take you to 50% and in cases higher, there are always compensating factors.

    Blatant statements` like closing a CC account will hurt your credit is not true, if that's the only card you had and you cut off your ability to borrow and establish credit you won't have established credit to be analyzed, but if you have other credit established it won't effect your history, further, if you lessen your ability to go over a prudent debt amount, closing an account can benefit you in that analysis. 

    Any credit card is not an asset, it's a liability or a contingent liability to the credit limit.

    HELOCs are mortgage debt, either a liability or a contingent liability, a lender may allow you to keep a HELOC, most will want it paid off and closed, then reapply with them if there is room for the LTV.

    As to existing mortgage debt, say a second that is to be left and subordinated to a new first mortgage holder, there are two aspects of underwriting, origination may use the interest rate at application, however, the total debt in underwriting may consider an increased rate, by the ceiling of the next adjustable rate or even the life time cap. Another overlay that you'll see in reality.

    6 Months or 10 months? It's 10, but if you're that close at 9 months left and your ratios are way out because of your new Jaguar S payment,  a lender could very well ask you to come back later. Think in terms of "use of credit" rather than in terms of strict ratios.

    These adjustments to underwriting are basically compensating factors taken into consideration, at a point in time, under current economic conditions, flowing with the housing and bond market, they can open the gates and close them later on. 

    So, that's why I suggest that investors learn the basics of prudent lending along with basic underwriting requirements that don't fluctuate with the wind, like job or income stability, use of debt, compensating factors, management of debt and your business (most will be on the commercial side but don't think the thought process of a residential underwriter doesn't understand commercial aspects of lending.....at least a good one). 

    Certainly take note of Fannie's underwriting guidelines, but know too that not every lender walks on the edge of the current guideline or can't make a loan outside of those requirements on a prudent basis. And, if you are counting down to the wire on existing debt, don't forget the time it takes to close, your position is considered at the time of application but the date it closes begins the portfolio period and lag time, if any, to selling that block of loans, so  you could be in like Flint!

    Been on vacation a while, see ya in the forums!  :)   

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y

    Welcome back @Bill Gulley  Hope you had an awesome vaca!

    Not that anyone cares - but my thoughts are this: If you have to finagle and worry about closing this or opening that credit line to get your DTI at or below something that starts with a 4... you are over-leveraged! Cheers!

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Welcome back @Bill Gulley  Hope you had an awesome vaca!

    Not that anyone cares - but my thoughts are this: If you have to finagle and worry about closing this or opening that credit line to get your DTI at or below something that starts with a 4... you are over-leveraged! Cheers!

     Thanks...

    And you said it quicker than I did, LOL! :)

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