Rental Property Investor · Charleston, WV · Member since 2013 · 262 posts · 109 votes
I found a really great house going up for auction in 3 weeks. I would like to buy it with some friends and family money from the auction. Fix it up and refinance it into a mortgage to live in.
I'm guessing this will take just a few months since the house is in good condition.
I'd like to offer my friends and family interest on the money they lend me, but I don't know quite what a good interest rate would be and how to explain it in monthly terms. I think simple interest would be best for around 7%?
When we talk and agree to a rate and term, how do I write it up in a contract? I know it's family but I would like to be professional and trustworthy with clear terms and expectations.
Also, if the bidding goes too high, do I just give them the money back or should I give interest there too?
Never done this before, if someone could walk me through this that would be great.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y
Merry Christmas!
This is something you need to go to an attorney for, to draft the promissory note and trust deed, it will also be more complicated putting several parties on as the lender.
What you need is a "Partitioned Note", I have designed and used these many times, chances are, your attorney will be in the dark initially, but you can message me, get my number and I will go over it with your attorney! So, Merry Christmas, no charge!
Just as the name implies, a promissory note is divided up among its principal, interest and amortization into sub-note obligations, the different parts constitute the whole note obligation.
This allows multiple lenders to participate on one loan, it is secured by a deed of trust or mortgage and doesn't require multiple filings or priority of liens as a first, second, third mortgage would require.
That leaves a second position open in the event you need to obtain future financing like a HELOC or second mortgage!
This concept is basically the same as "participating loans" between banks, one bank is the lead lender but other banks also contribute to funding, this reduces lending risks in large loan transactions. But, nothing says your loan has to be in the millions!
A "fractionalized note" is similar, but not the same as the different lenders are not defined in the note as holding a specific amount of the total lien, they can be difficult to administer, present collateral issues and lack the flexibility of paying off one of the lenders without paying off all the lenders, these can also be illegal when lenders cross security laws, so if this is suggested, stay away from a note with fractional note holders.
As mentioned, the amortization may be adjusted, one lender can be paid off quicker than another, such as a friend getting their money back before a family member. This also plays into estate planning if a family trust is involved. In a partitioned note, a certain sum can be due at a certain time as a balloon payment providing more flexibility in your financing arrangements or requirements.
While you can have different rates of interest, that is not for the average lender/borrower because then you'll have weighted interest rate computations, so really, everyone should agree to the same rate.
These are used more for commercial lending but may be used for consumer lending and can be fine under the Dodd-Frank Act as required and in your case as private lenders exempt from many requirements. Sounds like you're house hacking so that is a consumer loan.
BTW, for other readers on BP, I mentioned these several years ago, I think it went over a lot of heads, but they can be pretty simple and very useful in creative financing circumstances! I'll introduce this financing method early in 2017. These note can also have a "future advance" feature, those flipping rehabs should pay attention as one lender can be the purchase money, another be the rehab money, all under one note and security agreement.
Investor · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 79 votes
9y
@Jonathan Johnson You need to do a "Promissory Note" between you and your Private Lender. Once the note is satisfied, you will need to do a "Release of Promissory Note". If the lender needs more Guarantee, then you will need to put them on your title as first or second position depending on the amount they are lending you. I would always have the note(s) notarized. Best of Luck to you!
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y
in this scenario as stated above a unsecured Prom note is all you need.. the prom note does NOT have to be notarized in fact its rarely done I have never seen one.. but it does not hurt.
Also as a word of caution... if your tracking one auction property.. if its a foreclosure sherrifs sale the chance of that one actually going to sale is small..
if its a Auction.com or bank type auction those will go.. but they tend to get bid up.
Good luck... 7% interest is very generous on your side of the equation.
Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 74 posts · 41 votes
9y
Jay Hinrichs what types of rates are you seeing in private money lending? What about preferred returns in bigger deals where the private investor takes an equity stake? 12% preferred?
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y
@Account Closed first you must establish usury rates that are allowed....
then its whatever you can negotiate nothing is standard when it comes to private people doing deals.
I like to structure win win... in my deals with the money always getting the lion share... this way I have more money than I know what to do with.
were I see folks use private money in a manner that they cant scale is thinking it should be cheapest money out there short of a commercial bank.. this in my personal opinion is backwards..
I have seen so many on BP never get started because they can't find that unicorn 7% investor....
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y
Merry Christmas!
This is something you need to go to an attorney for, to draft the promissory note and trust deed, it will also be more complicated putting several parties on as the lender.
What you need is a "Partitioned Note", I have designed and used these many times, chances are, your attorney will be in the dark initially, but you can message me, get my number and I will go over it with your attorney! So, Merry Christmas, no charge!
Just as the name implies, a promissory note is divided up among its principal, interest and amortization into sub-note obligations, the different parts constitute the whole note obligation.
This allows multiple lenders to participate on one loan, it is secured by a deed of trust or mortgage and doesn't require multiple filings or priority of liens as a first, second, third mortgage would require.
That leaves a second position open in the event you need to obtain future financing like a HELOC or second mortgage!
This concept is basically the same as "participating loans" between banks, one bank is the lead lender but other banks also contribute to funding, this reduces lending risks in large loan transactions. But, nothing says your loan has to be in the millions!
A "fractionalized note" is similar, but not the same as the different lenders are not defined in the note as holding a specific amount of the total lien, they can be difficult to administer, present collateral issues and lack the flexibility of paying off one of the lenders without paying off all the lenders, these can also be illegal when lenders cross security laws, so if this is suggested, stay away from a note with fractional note holders.
As mentioned, the amortization may be adjusted, one lender can be paid off quicker than another, such as a friend getting their money back before a family member. This also plays into estate planning if a family trust is involved. In a partitioned note, a certain sum can be due at a certain time as a balloon payment providing more flexibility in your financing arrangements or requirements.
While you can have different rates of interest, that is not for the average lender/borrower because then you'll have weighted interest rate computations, so really, everyone should agree to the same rate.
These are used more for commercial lending but may be used for consumer lending and can be fine under the Dodd-Frank Act as required and in your case as private lenders exempt from many requirements. Sounds like you're house hacking so that is a consumer loan.
BTW, for other readers on BP, I mentioned these several years ago, I think it went over a lot of heads, but they can be pretty simple and very useful in creative financing circumstances! I'll introduce this financing method early in 2017. These note can also have a "future advance" feature, those flipping rehabs should pay attention as one lender can be the purchase money, another be the rehab money, all under one note and security agreement.
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y
@Bill Gulley No securities issues ?... I know in my state Oregon you cannot put multiple bene's on a debt obligation.... without doing whats called a real estate paper offering... which Is a mini PPM
although my banks that I have large facilities with do partner with other banks.. and of course we never see who it is or how much.. other than my banker tells me they got a partner.
Rental Property Investor · Charleston, WV · Member since 2013 · 262 posts · 109 votes
9y
Thank you guys for the wealth of information. @Paul Thacker
@Ari T. That makes sense. I'll have to look up some promissory notes, do you know where I could find some to look at?
@Paul Thacker Software for private money lenders? Or contracts?
@Jay Hinrichs It's an auction.com property. The interesting part is that the address, when plugged into google maps, goes to a wrong house. Both houses are similar, but the one I'm interested in has a bigger property (26 acres). 7% is generous? If I borrow 100k for 6 months, I think that comes out to $3,500 100,000 * (7% / 12) * 6mo = 3,500 right? Not sure if I'm doing that correctly.
@Bill Gulley Wow, that definitely went over my head. I was envisioning a promisory note that says I'll pay them back in 6 months, and then getting the money in some sort of escrow that I can take to buy at the auction. These auctions are cashiers checks and such.
@Bill Gulley No securities issues ?... I know in my state Oregon you cannot put multiple bene's on a debt obligation.... without doing whats called a real estate paper offering... which Is a mini PPM
although my banks that I have large facilities with do partner with other banks.. and of course we never see who it is or how much.. other than my banker tells me they got a partner.
I like it though... can't wait to see it... !!!
You're correct, a PPM may be required which can be a pretty simple process, a partitioned note can also be done among owners of a TIC, within the TIC Agreement. These agreements can be rather boiler plate, they may also be fine tuned to meet most any contingency.
The foundation of securities laws goes back to 1933, as to an owner or investor having a passive roll in a common venture with the expectation of profit.
BTW, there are no exemptions for private lenders, family or friends to avoid securities laws, but that doesn't mean that just because a note is a security that is is an issue with the SEC, which is what I meant by that comment.
A Trust may have multiple beneficiaries, when the note is held by a Trust the partitioned note divides the asset distribution amount the beneficiaries.
As I mentioned, legal council should always be sought, the point here is the drafting of a partitioned note into sections comprising one note obligation, not rocket science really.
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y
@Bill Gulley can't wait to see it and see if I can get it blessed by the department of corporate securities here in Oregon.. .they are nutso over this stuff.. I know I got hammered by them once when I got bad legal advice form one attorney.
@Bill Gulley can't wait to see it and see if I can get it blessed by the department of corporate securities here in Oregon.. .they are nutso over this stuff.. I know I got hammered by them once when I got bad legal advice form one attorney.
Any issue won't be with the form of the note, but how you might use it. Get a different attorney, Lol.
Remember too, notes may be used internally, partnerships, Trusts, LLC's, affiliates where a note isn't required to be filed but can address disposition of assets or disbursements. :)
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y
@Bill Gulley No kidding the first one cost me 30 large... LOL and was wrong.
although they argued they were correct and the state was wrong and we could take it to law review court for another 100k in lawyer fees LOL.. .I caved and went along with the states opinion...
I like your note I like tic and something for all the folks that have friends and family that want to keep it looking perfessional