My HML stopped approving construction draws (A frozen BRRRR!)

My HML stopped approving construction draws (A frozen BRRRR!)

Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2019 · 11 posts · 8 votes

Hello fellow BPers. I've found myself in a bit of a predicament.

Two months ago marks the closing date of my first attempt at a BRRRR. After many showings and a handful of offers, I was more than excited to hear that my offer on a duplex-turned-SFR had been accepted at $15,000 under asking and $10,000 under market value as later appraised. The plan was simple - The house was originally built as a duplex before being converted to a single-family home, so all it would take was a kitchen install, some framing, and a good bit of cosmetic work to convert it back into a duplex and add upwards of $50,000 to its market value.

Now, the deal on financing was that I'd bring $16,000 to the table, and my HML would cover the rest of the purchase price along with a $35,000 escrow for construction costs all at a 12% interest rate along with 3 points up front - Yikes! I know. The first bump in the road came the day before closing, when I learned from the title company that my cash-to-close would actually come out to $21,000. Thanks for the heads up HML! Fortunately, I had enough capital to cover the difference, but this almost entirely wiped out my cash reserves dedicated to this project. Thanks to my contractor, construction has gone smoothly up to this point, and we're about 3 weeks of work from being able to rent both sides out and move on to the refi and some serious cash-flow. Unfortunately, we're now running into a much more serious obstacle. I've been informed that my bank is struggling to process draw requests and other essential operations, as well as that they have lost a 250m line of credit. In the words of my contact at the bank, 'we're f****d.' Three weeks ago, my contact started giving me the run around on construction draws. Fast forward today, the bank is barely responsive and I have not been able to process a draw since then. Construction has halted and my contractor has been forced to move to another project for the time being.

To put some icing on the cake, the bank is still demanding I pay interest on the full amount of the loan including the construction escrow. 

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this BPers, and I hope nobody is in a similar situation, but if you are, how are you managing?

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:

@Caleb Bryant It's a bit confusing when you say "bank" can't process draws, I assume it's the HML. This seems to have nothing to do with Corona, sounds like the HML is over extended and simply out of money. They have to honor their Liam agreement just like you do. I'd talk to an attorney Now and I'd make no more interest payments. They'd have a hard time enforcing/foreclosing when They are breaching their agreement.

@Jay Hinrichs ??

Wayne below clarifies the situation the broker Ken is just a broker.. the lender it appears is really Lima One..  I have done a few new constructions with Lima one.. last I talked to their rep they were no longer doing new construction but were still funding fix and flips.

I am not exactly sure on the legality of a lender to continue to make draws..  If their credits lines are frozen as someone is saying ( I don't know this for sure) and there is no money.. I suspect the borrower at that point has the right to pay the loan off and certainly not owe interest on funds that were never available to them.. So there would be some sort of interest credit in the pay off. 

If Lima One is not making draws for clients I think we would be hearing much more about it now..  Even in a perfect world Lima's draw process was not the smoothest in lenders we have used.. so in this situation they could have staffing issues.. but if someone at the company says they don't have the money .. Well then that's a pretty big issue for them and their borrowers to work out.. there is lender liability in the law just not an expert at it.. 

I would be on the phone to lima one pronto. 

Remember back to the GFC  big banks stopped construction projects mid stream and left high rises in various states of construction. you can still see a few in Vegas for instance.. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Escrow Officer · Temecula, Ca. · Member since 2016 · 418 posts · 152 votes
    6y

    Wow, I am wondering about the legalities of this. Despite CV19, there has to be some options for you as a borrower..or they need to defer payments like some lenders are doing. This is crazy, which I had some help to offer other than "call an attorney."

  • Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 2 votes
    6y

    Caleb Bryant - I picked up your post on a separate thread as well.Appears we are having the same issue with the same Lender - hardmoney man - Ken Vesley. We actually completed our project and was able to only successfully make 1 draw. Now, it has been over 20 days since our last draw request, and he has even seized responding. He keeps citing Covid however, to this day, he can never tell me something as simple as where things stand in the draw process. To add, he is very unprofessional. We continue to make our interest payments as per the terms of our loan, but will be involving our attorney in the matter. 

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    @Caleb Bryant It's a bit confusing when you say "bank" can't process draws, I assume it's the HML. This seems to have nothing to do with Corona, sounds like the HML is over extended and simply out of money. They have to honor their Liam agreement just like you do. I'd talk to an attorney Now and I'd make no more interest payments. They'd have a hard time enforcing/foreclosing when They are breaching their agreement.

    @Jay Hinrichs ??

  • Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2019 · 11 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    @Kibwe Williams

    I did end up talking to an attorney and we were able to deduce that Ken Vesely brokers money from Lima One Capital out of South Carolina. I’ve cut Ken out of the equation and have instead been in touch with Morgan Stiles at Construction(at)investorlendingusa.com who has been much more reliable and professional, although draws have still been delayed to the point of my project being delayed.

    I’m interested in supporting you in a class action lawsuit if you decide to go this route. Feel free to DM me for my contact information.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:

    @Caleb Bryant It's a bit confusing when you say "bank" can't process draws, I assume it's the HML. This seems to have nothing to do with Corona, sounds like the HML is over extended and simply out of money. They have to honor their Liam agreement just like you do. I'd talk to an attorney Now and I'd make no more interest payments. They'd have a hard time enforcing/foreclosing when They are breaching their agreement.

    @Jay Hinrichs ??

    Wayne below clarifies the situation the broker Ken is just a broker.. the lender it appears is really Lima One..  I have done a few new constructions with Lima one.. last I talked to their rep they were no longer doing new construction but were still funding fix and flips.

    I am not exactly sure on the legality of a lender to continue to make draws..  If their credits lines are frozen as someone is saying ( I don't know this for sure) and there is no money.. I suspect the borrower at that point has the right to pay the loan off and certainly not owe interest on funds that were never available to them.. So there would be some sort of interest credit in the pay off. 

    If Lima One is not making draws for clients I think we would be hearing much more about it now..  Even in a perfect world Lima's draw process was not the smoothest in lenders we have used.. so in this situation they could have staffing issues.. but if someone at the company says they don't have the money .. Well then that's a pretty big issue for them and their borrowers to work out.. there is lender liability in the law just not an expert at it.. 

    I would be on the phone to lima one pronto. 

    Remember back to the GFC  big banks stopped construction projects mid stream and left high rises in various states of construction. you can still see a few in Vegas for instance.. 

  • Member since 2019 · 10 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    Disclaimer: I work for Lima One

    For clarity, we are still processing and funding construction draws. Our process is lengthened primarily because of the issues with getting inspectors on-site during the pandemic, but borrowers can fully expect to receive funds for completed work. Borrowers can contact us directly and we are happy to assist.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Robert Neely:

    Disclaimer: I work for Lima One

    For clarity, we are still processing and funding construction draws. Our process is lengthened primarily because of the issues with getting inspectors on-site during the pandemic, but borrowers can fully expect to receive funds for completed work. Borrowers can contact us directly and we are happy to assist.

    Good for you to jump on here and nip this in the bud.. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2017 · 517 posts · 772 votes
    6y

    They shouldn't be able to freeze draws as your repair amounts are placed in escrow at the time of purchase...they aren't just cash sitting in their bank account. 

    Thus, it is concerning if they stop allowing you to draw on it. 

    As mentioned above, though, you could see delays in inspectors coming out to approve/deny draws...but more than 1-2 weeks is quite excessive.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

    They shouldn't be able to freeze draws as your repair amounts are placed in escrow at the time of purchase...they aren't just cash sitting in their bank account. 

    Thus, it is concerning if they stop allowing you to draw on it. 

    As mentioned above, though, you could see delays in inspectors coming out to approve/deny draws...but more than 1-2 weeks is quite excessive.

    AS a general rule private lenders don't escrow your draw money.. they just have enough deal flow and payoffs to never run out of money.. But for sure they are not letting it sit in an account.. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2017 · 517 posts · 772 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

    They shouldn't be able to freeze draws as your repair amounts are placed in escrow at the time of purchase...they aren't just cash sitting in their bank account. 

    Thus, it is concerning if they stop allowing you to draw on it. 

    As mentioned above, though, you could see delays in inspectors coming out to approve/deny draws...but more than 1-2 weeks is quite excessive.

    AS a general rule private lenders don't escrow your draw money.. they just have enough deal flow and payoffs to never run out of money.. But for sure they are not letting it sit in an account.. 

    That's always the language they used with me...but obviously I can't verify anything. Like you infer, they probably just know they'll have the money when it comes for a draw...but in this OP's case, that may have come back to bite them.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

    They shouldn't be able to freeze draws as your repair amounts are placed in escrow at the time of purchase...they aren't just cash sitting in their bank account. 

    Thus, it is concerning if they stop allowing you to draw on it. 

    As mentioned above, though, you could see delays in inspectors coming out to approve/deny draws...but more than 1-2 weeks is quite excessive.

    AS a general rule private lenders don't escrow your draw money.. they just have enough deal flow and payoffs to never run out of money.. But for sure they are not letting it sit in an account.. 

    That's always the language they used with me...but obviously I can't verify anything. Like you infer, they probably just know they'll have the money when it comes for a draw...but in this OP's case, that may have come back to bite them.

    you cant borrow money on a lending credit line and then just stick it in the bank waiting for draws . Just like any bank they don't have 100% deposits sitting to match up to 100% of their construction loans they are cycling money.

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