Creative Financine:Buy Under Your Own LLC & Refinance to Yourself

Creative Financine:Buy Under Your Own LLC & Refinance to Yourself

Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 85 votes

This has already been briefly talked about on here but I wanted to run it by anyone interested in a discussion(especially lenders). The quick and general idea here is; you have some cash, create an LLC, have that LLC write you a note on a loan for a property, buy the property under your name.

Once property is financed using your LLC, refinance under conventional loan of say 15% down (if primary residence). In theory this method should be much better than a cash out refinance because you would be able to get regular refinance rate, are not limited to 20%-25% down which you regularly are on a cash out refi, and are not limited to purchase price but cash out is based on appraisal. This allows you to potentially pull out more cash than you put in.

In Depth;

Scenario 1:

  1. You or your family have an LLC named FLLC with $X cash reserves
  2. You place an offer on a property and purchase it via loan / note written from the FLLC(lets say 15% down);
  3. You then immediately go for a regular refinance and are able to to get down to a 15% down conventional as a primary residence or a 20% down investment property

Scenario 2: 

  • You or your family have $X in cash reserves 
  • You place an offer on a property and purchase it via cash
  • You then refinance immediately via delayed financing exemption (this may cost you higher interest rates because not all banks know about this or are willing to do it and this is a cash out refi which is a different product than a regular rate and term refi, again more points higher cost)
  • You can only refi up to the cost of the purchase price + renovations cost OR appraisal price - whichever is lower

You can see the clear powerful advantages of scenario 1 here if you purchase a property below ARV- my only concern is;

- In scenario 1, banks will need your statements and will pull your credit, they will easily see that your HELOC or cash reserves or whatever were transferred to your LLC account and thereby be able to identify that the LLC funding you is yours. Is this a problem?

Anyone else have any input on these two methods?

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    Andrew PostellPro Member
    Lender · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    @Edit B. the first thing that we should be practicing is only working with lenders who work with investors and are investor friendly. Most loan officers do 1 investment property loans for every 50 that they write. And the industry average is 2.5 loans per month. Which means that the average loan officer writes 1 investment property every 2 years? Yup. And that's the issue. Everyone will say "yeah, I can write investment property loans"...but very few are experts and it. Try going to a lender and saying "I'm going to house hack a property I got subject to that I'm looking to BRRRR"....they won't even know what you are talking about. This means, you shouldn't work with this lender. So how do you know if a lender is "investor friendly"? Receiving a recommendation from another good real estate investor is a great way to start. I wrote a series of questions I want you to ask any lender you interview. If you find a lender who can answer these well then maybe they will be a little easier to work with. Here's the list:

    Questions for Lenders

    1. When do you start using rental income to help me qualify? (the answer needs to be immediately)
    2. When do you start using “After Repair Value” on my property?
    3. How long do you need me to be on title to refinance? (this is important if you do need a short term loan to purchase then refinance out - and the answer should be 1 day...very important that it is 1 day on title is all that is needed to refinance)
    4. What is my minimum down payment required? (if they only require 15% down on a single family home that is usually a good sign that you are working with a flexible lender)
    5. How many loans can I have with you?
    6. Can I change title to my LLC?
    7. Do you sell your mortgages?
    8. What is your loan minimum?
    9. Can you explain to me what your reserve requirements are?
    See this reply in the discussion

    13 Replies

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    • Islip, NY · Member since 2013 · 95 posts · 27 votes
      6y

      I must be missing the point on this. I bought a rental in florida in the name of our llc. so are you saving that I should have the LLc write me a note and then I take that to the bank to refinance. so dont you also have to put the property in the name of the LLC. if so where is the protection ??

    • Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 85 votes
      6y

      @JJ GONZALEZ II The LLC in this case is operating as any bank or lender even though it is yours or some family members. Once it writes you a note it does not own the property, it simply holds a 1st lien as any lender would. You are not putting this property in the name of the LLC, the LLC is writing a loan / note to you to purchase the property. After the purchase you can then immediately refinance. This is in comparison to using cash to buy a property then performing a cash out refi with delayed financing exemption (waives the 6 month seasoning period bc cash purchase)

    • NV · Member since 2019 · 254 posts · 57 votes
      6y

      In scenario 2 you do not have delayed financing, it is simply a refi (you will be refinancing from a private loan).You then are able to take a loan according to whatever your lenders rates look like ex: (75% LTC, 80% LTV)

    • Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 85 votes
      6y

      @Rene Doyle - In Scenario 2 you do not have a financing delay (hence delayed financing exemption as I mention above), however you cannot do a regular refinance, you are doing a cash out refinance. Furthermore with scenario-2 you cannot do a regular 15% down(primary residence), you are paying higher points(cash out refi) and are limited on how much you can pull out by purchase price + repair or appraisal (lower one).  What I'm mainly interested in is the practicality of scenario 1, because as I mention above it would be much more desirable from a cost perspective and limit on cash out.

    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      6y

      @Edit B.

      So if I understand, you as a person by a house and pay for it via a loan from xyz LLC.

      After you buy it you (the person) look to get a bank to refinance it.

      Not sure what that is getting you versus just paying cash for a house and refinancing.

      Banks will see you just bought it and the security instrument (note / mortgage would be recorded) so the bank will see it and not sure why the bank would treat either any differently.

      Definitely talk to some lenders.

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    • Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 85 votes
      6y

      @Chris Seveney As I mentioned above a few times, by having an LLC loan to you then refinancing, you are just doing a regular refinance, this comes with regular refinance terms. Ref above for what you get when you do a cash out refinance instead. Its not the same thing in any way. With non cash out refi but a regular refi you are getting lower rate, access to primary residence loans, no limit on cash out, as you normally do in cash out refi. Its an entirely different thing in a better way.

    • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 7 votes
      6y

      @Edit B. Look up posts from Andrew Postell or contact him. I had the same idea a few months ago and I was not the first person to think about it 😀

    • Andrew PostellPro Member
      Lender · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 6k+ votes
      6y

      @Edit B. I seem to remember seeing an article on this exact subject that I think you can read HERE.  It's a strategy we have been using for several years and it works great.  Let me know if you have any questions on it.

    • Andrew PostellPro Member
      Lender · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 6k+ votes
      6y

      @JJ GONZALEZ II this strategy is NOT for asset protection. This is just to avoid "delayed financing" when purchasing a property in cash and using Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac to refinance.  If you aren't using Fannie/Freddie...then no reason to use it.  Hope that makes more sense.

    • Andrew PostellPro Member
      Lender · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 6k+ votes
      6y

      @Chris Seveney it's Fannie/Freddie that look at this differently. It sounds a little weird at first but Fannie/Freddie was really burned during the housing crises when people purchased with cash and then did an immediate cash out refinance. So they built these rules to protect themselves....or maybe I should say congress did. In either case, if you show you borrowed the money, even if you borrowed it from your own company, they are much more comfortable with that. It's almost like when you were in grade school and your teacher required you to show you work for 9x9. We all know 9x9 = 81. But showing your work was the requirement. Same type of theory here - they are requiring you to show your work with a lien from your LLC. And if you do it your rate and terms are better. If you are using commercial money, none of this matters. Just for Fannie/Freddie money. Hope this makes a little more sense.

    • Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 85 votes
      6y

      @Andrew Postell thats exactly what I was looking for- I think you answered my concern more or less. The issue I foresee is many lenders dont even know about cash our refi with delayed financing exemption, you literally gotta tell them to ask around inside their dept to verify that its a thing. So I foresee issues when using this LLC to write me a note bc to someone inexperienced this looks like a scam or some workaround that might be illegal. However you are stating from your experience they do not have any issue with this? Is this something that you first have to explain or do you not even mention to them that this is your own LLC?

    • Andrew PostellPro Member
      Lender · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 6k+ votes
      6y

      @Edit B. the first thing that we should be practicing is only working with lenders who work with investors and are investor friendly. Most loan officers do 1 investment property loans for every 50 that they write. And the industry average is 2.5 loans per month. Which means that the average loan officer writes 1 investment property every 2 years? Yup. And that's the issue. Everyone will say "yeah, I can write investment property loans"...but very few are experts and it. Try going to a lender and saying "I'm going to house hack a property I got subject to that I'm looking to BRRRR"....they won't even know what you are talking about. This means, you shouldn't work with this lender. So how do you know if a lender is "investor friendly"? Receiving a recommendation from another good real estate investor is a great way to start. I wrote a series of questions I want you to ask any lender you interview. If you find a lender who can answer these well then maybe they will be a little easier to work with. Here's the list:

      Questions for Lenders

      1. When do you start using rental income to help me qualify? (the answer needs to be immediately)
      2. When do you start using “After Repair Value” on my property?
      3. How long do you need me to be on title to refinance? (this is important if you do need a short term loan to purchase then refinance out - and the answer should be 1 day...very important that it is 1 day on title is all that is needed to refinance)
      4. What is my minimum down payment required? (if they only require 15% down on a single family home that is usually a good sign that you are working with a flexible lender)
      5. How many loans can I have with you?
      6. Can I change title to my LLC?
      7. Do you sell your mortgages?
      8. What is your loan minimum?
      9. Can you explain to me what your reserve requirements are?
    • Islip, NY · Member since 2013 · 95 posts · 27 votes
      6y

      andrew thanks for the reply, perhaps things in Texas are different. in the lovely state of florida, only small banks will give loans on an LLc and not many of them. Mortgage brokers all turn them away because they cant sell them to fannie and freddie. So you are stuck with paying higher fees and higher rates. I did put the property in the name of an LLC because its a short term rental so liability is a concern. But you cant get more than 1 or 2 local banks to quote on a loan or a refi and they know they have the market to themselves.

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