Guide to Credit Card Hacking for Flippers!

Guide to Credit Card Hacking for Flippers!

Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 38 votes

I'm not sure if anyone has brought up this strategy before but I'd like to share how I funded my flips starting out. I call it credit card hacking though thats probably not a great name for it with cyber crime and all. Oh well lets get to it!

What you need: Credit Cards and Paypal

Purpose: To fully cash out your credits cards and get the lowest interest rates possible in doing so. This money can then be used for down payments and rehab costs.

How it works: First let me start with the easiest solution we don't use: The cash advance. I don't like it because they typically only let you take out 25% of your credit limit. We're trying to get our whole credit line cashed out. So to do that we need to look at balance transfers. For me I'm always getting mail from my credit card companies offering 0% interest for 18 months on balance transfers. If you're not getting them usually you can call and ask for them. A lot of times they'll have them and you can take advantage. I've found that some companies will let you balance transfer your whole credit line into your checking account with these promotions. 

So for example I have 3 cards that are managed by FIA Card Services and two are Bank of America Cash Rewards and the other is a Fidelity American Express. With all three of them I'm able to balance transfer any amount for an up front 4% fee and then I get 0% interest on that cash for the next 18 months. So lets say I have a $50,000 credit limit on the Fidelity American Express, I can borrow that whole amount in cash for $2,000 and have no interest for the next 18 months. Now after the 18 months the APR will jump to a high rate but if you're a smart flipper you should be able to pay it back then repeat.

Now there are some cards that don't allow balance transfers straight into your checking account. I have an AMEX Blue Cash and a Discover card that don't allow me to do that. They have the same kind of 0% for 18 months at a 5% up front fee but its only on balance transfers from another card. 

Here's where the hack comes in:

DON'T CASH OUT YOUR CREDIT CARDS THAT ARE ABLE TO BALANCE TRANSFER STRAIGHT INTO CHECKING! You will need them to balance transfer onto the cards that can only accept balance transfers from other cards. 

For example assume I have a $20,000 limit on my AMEX Blue Cash that only accepts transfers from other cards. You will need to have $20,000 on another card that you can transfer to it. To do this you need Paypal. On Paypal you can transfer cash to somebody as a gift for a 2.93% fee if you use credit card. So you need to create two Paypal accounts. One to transfer money into the other. So for me I would use my Fidelity American Express because it gets 2% cash back on any charge. I would send $20,000 from one account and receive it on the other account. Now my Fidelity American Express has $20,000 in charges on it and I have $20,000 in cash. Then you call up the AMEX Blue Cash number and you balance transfer that amount to it. So now your AMEX Blue Cash is maxed out at $20,000 and the Fidelity American Express has a $0 balance again. Now you can use the checking account balance transfer on the Fidelity American Express for $50,000 and they'll both be maxed out and you'll have $70,000 cash to work with.

Conclusion: So with this hack you now have $70,000 cash for the next 18 months at 0%. So what did it cost? The Paypal transfer of $20,000 cost 2.93% but it was offset by the 2% cash back the Fidelity American Express offers on any charge. So it basically cost $200 to transfer on Paypal. Then the balance transfer on that $20,000 is 5% so thats another $1,000. Then to do the checking account balance transfer for the Fidelity American Express on $50,000 it was 4% so thats $2,000. So the total cost to borrow $70,000 cash for the next 18 months at 0% was $3,200. If you're a flipper thats an amazing deal and there are a lot of properties you can get the next 18 months with that cash.

I hope this hack can help somebody! Please let me know if you have any questions. And lastly I don't recommend this for a beginner. Credit cards are risky if you don't know what you're doing!

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Involved In Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 6 votes
11y

Thank you 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Kaneohe, HI · Member since 2012 · 218 posts · 104 votes
    11y

    @Chris Z.

     I not saying its breaking the law because it isnt, I'm just saying that it raises flags.  Like if I was to claim everything for expenses on my rental in the first year and I come out not owing anything to the IRS then they will most likely audit me.  I would have to show them all the receipts to prove everything is legit.  You also run the risk of getting your credit card accounts shut down.  My point was if you are to do this, do it at a slow rate that noone will suspect.  This Hobby is similar to what many cyber thieves are doing the only difference is that it comes from our money and our accounts instead of a stolen identity.  This is why it is important to not do these transactions in large amounts so that you will not raise suspicion and cause you head aches you dont need.

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 10 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Royce Talbo:

    @Chris Z.

     I not saying its breaking the law because it isnt, I'm just saying that it raises flags.  Like if I was to claim everything for expenses on my rental in the first year and I come out not owing anything to the IRS then they will most likely audit me.  I would have to show them all the receipts to prove everything is legit.  You also run the risk of getting your credit card accounts shut down.  My point was if you are to do this, do it at a slow rate that noone will suspect.  This Hobby is similar to what many cyber thieves are doing the only difference is that it comes from our money and our accounts instead of a stolen identity.  This is why it is important to not do these transactions in large amounts so that you will not raise suspicion and cause you head aches you dont need.

     I used to do this when CVS let me buy $4k per day in Visa cards. I'd do $20k per month on one cc. Deposited into my business bank account. I even told my bank what I was doing. Eventually I got the card shut down, but that's because I abused it. No big deal. If you do $20k slowly over 1-2 months to pull the cash for a BT offer you'll be fine. Btw I kept every last receipt and card when I did this for a compete money trail in case anyone came knocking on my door.

  • Philly Burbs, PA · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 133 votes
    11y

    This sounds like something the crackhead hooker that rented from my mom would dream up when she was just a coke head hooker.

    Granted she was a smart hooker, but now she is in a home for wayward women, and I've been watching her cat for like 4 or 5 years.

  • Information Technology · West Chester, PA · Member since 2014 · 40 posts · 20 votes
    11y
    Not advising this at all but it looks like you can buy bitcoins with a credit card and then convert the bitcoins into USD. (Just be mindful of the exchange rate.)
  • Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 471 posts · 267 votes
    11y

    I don't think this is a bad idea given how high hard money can be. If you do it right my guess would be that it doesn't wreck your credit, but actually help it long term. Short term may take a few dings, similar to other cc hacking methods. You have to be absolutely organized and certain that you can make payments because getting hit with that rate on the back end would be brutal. Thanks for the interesting post it's always important to know every piece of financing that is available to you so you can make the best decision for your business/needs.

  • Investor · Plano, TX · Member since 2015 · 74 posts · 22 votes
    11y

    Another option is to get a Square and process your own cards to your own checking account.  2.75% no big deal.

    Yeah and tracking and records are a big deal to make this work correctly.

  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mike Jury:

    Another option is to get a Square and process your own cards to your own checking account.  2.75% no big deal.

    Yeah and tracking and records are a big deal to make this work correctly.

     Before doing this, you should read the terms of service for the Square.  This may be a violation of the terms and could get your account revoked.

  • Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2014 · 332 posts · 74 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I'm not sure if anyone has brought up this strategy before but I'd like to share how I funded my flips starting out. I call it credit card hacking though thats probably not a great name for it with cyber crime and all. Oh well lets get to it!

    What you need: Credit Cards and Paypal

    Purpose: To fully cash out your credits cards and get the lowest interest rates possible in doing so. This money can then be used for down payments and rehab costs.

    How it works: First let me start with the easiest solution we don't use: The cash advance. I don't like it because they typically only let you take out 25% of your credit limit. We're trying to get our whole credit line cashed out. So to do that we need to look at balance transfers. For me I'm always getting mail from my credit card companies offering 0% interest for 18 months on balance transfers. If you're not getting them usually you can call and ask for them. A lot of times they'll have them and you can take advantage. I've found that some companies will let you balance transfer your whole credit line into your checking account with these promotions. 

    So for example I have 3 cards that are managed by FIA Card Services and two are Bank of America Cash Rewards and the other is a Fidelity American Express. With all three of them I'm able to balance transfer any amount for an up front 4% fee and then I get 0% interest on that cash for the next 18 months. So lets say I have a $50,000 credit limit on the Fidelity American Express, I can borrow that whole amount in cash for $2,000 and have no interest for the next 18 months. Now after the 18 months the APR will jump to a high rate but if you're a smart flipper you should be able to pay it back then repeat.

    Now there are some cards that don't allow balance transfers straight into your checking account. I have an AMEX Blue Cash and a Discover card that don't allow me to do that. They have the same kind of 0% for 18 months at a 5% up front fee but its only on balance transfers from another card. 

    Here's where the hack comes in:

    DON'T CASH OUT YOUR CREDIT CARDS THAT ARE ABLE TO BALANCE TRANSFER STRAIGHT INTO CHECKING! You will need them to balance transfer onto the cards that can only accept balance transfers from other cards. 

    For example assume I have a $20,000 limit on my AMEX Blue Cash that only accepts transfers from other cards. You will need to have $20,000 on another card that you can transfer to it. To do this you need Paypal. On Paypal you can transfer cash to somebody as a gift for a 2.93% fee if you use credit card. So you need to create two Paypal accounts. One to transfer money into the other. So for me I would use my Fidelity American Express because it gets 2% cash back on any charge. I would send $20,000 from one account and receive it on the other account. Now my Fidelity American Express has $20,000 in charges on it and I have $20,000 in cash. Then you call up the AMEX Blue Cash number and you balance transfer that amount to it. So now your AMEX Blue Cash is maxed out at $20,000 and the Fidelity American Express has a $0 balance again. Now you can use the checking account balance transfer on the Fidelity American Express for $50,000 and they'll both be maxed out and you'll have $70,000 cash to work with.

    Conclusion: So with this hack you now have $70,000 cash for the next 18 months at 0%. So what did it cost? The Paypal transfer of $20,000 cost 2.93% but it was offset by the 2% cash back the Fidelity American Express offers on any charge. So it basically cost $200 to transfer on Paypal. Then the balance transfer on that $20,000 is 5% so thats another $1,000. Then to do the checking account balance transfer for the Fidelity American Express on $50,000 it was 4% so thats $2,000. So the total cost to borrow $70,000 cash for the next 18 months at 0% was $3,200. If you're a flipper thats an amazing deal and there are a lot of properties you can get the next 18 months with that cash.

    I hope this hack can help somebody! Please let me know if you have any questions. And lastly I don't recommend this for a beginner. Credit cards are risky if you don't know what you're doing!

    Ryan, I would recommend to do this with business credit cards that don't show up on your credit report (US Bank, B of A, Wellsfarfo, Citi, Chase) Do not use Discover or Capital One, even thought they are ''called'' business they will show up on your credit report.

    The main reason is to use business credit cards vs personal cards is because eventually you will not be able to qualify for a personal loan (if your DTI is too high)

  • Madison Heights, MI · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 132 votes
    11y

    I've never heard of using Pay Pal. Every card I have used allowed me to get a "balance transfer check" instead of doing a direct transfer. I simply deposit the checks into my checking account. I have one home that is currently financed with credit cards. I just keep transferring the balance near the end of the 0% period.

  • Boston, MA · Member since 2014 · 48 posts · 6 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Cory Land:

    Not advising this at all but it looks like you can buy bitcoins with a credit card and then convert the bitcoins into USD. (Just be mindful of the exchange rate.)

    Money orders bought with prepaid gift cards are hit or miss depending on the location. In my area you cannot do this as the money order needs to be bought with an actual debit card not a gift card. Not to mention buying 40 cards and 40 money orders must be a pain. It seems like the coins will not work either based off what others have said.

    I am not advising any of this either, but with that said Bitcoin on the other hand, I think, is the best consistent alternative. Most Bitcoin sites allow you to do 3k transactions for about 1% in and 1% out. You can also do multiple transactions in a short period of time, it depends on the exchange you use. So you use your CC to purchase Bitcoins for 1%, and then sell your Bitcoin for USD and are charged another 1%. If you are extra paranoid about the cash-in-cash-out idea, there are online services that randomize your coins. For example if 100 people put in 100 Bitcoins, then they are all mixed up, and randomly redistributed (to a different online wallet for about 3%). These different coins can then be resold, more than likely no one would ever connect the trail. I would say on average this whole process could be done from a computer in a day or two, would cost you 2-5%. Again I am not advising this.

  • Investor · Annandale, VA · Member since 2015 · 54 posts · 10 votes
    11y

    @Jacob Sanders This would be interesting to do for cash back cards too, can you essentially get cash back from this? 

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    11y

    @Account Closed That's pretty awesome. How did this impact your credit score? Did you use 100 % of your CC balances or did you have certain credit utilization on each credit card in order to minimize the impact on your credit score? 

  • Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    @Account Closed yes I used close to 100% of the limit. Honestly I haven't checked my score. I'm sure it's brought it down but it doesn't really matter to me what it is for what I'm doing. 

  • Investor · South Amboy, NJ · Member since 2008 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Ryan Pineda

    Do you know which cards have the best offers for using this strategy now?

  • WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Gift card tricks are very hard to come by nowadays since most CCs and Retailers have caught on to the manufactured spending. Paypal might be risky as well. I have thought about doing this before, but sending the cash to my brother instead, who would then send it back to me. You could definitely still utilize the balance transfer checks, though I would not max out the cards. Still a good way of extracting the cash you need for less than what HML would charge, if you have large enough credit limits.

  • Investor · Delaware, OH · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    I know this was started some time ago, but I just saw it for the first time and want to offer a missing piece of info..

    I have done the Credit Card Hack a few times listed in the first post of this thread, thread, it works...   However, if you do it, you want to make sure you do not make any additional charges on the card being transferred to, put the card away and do not touch it until after you have the balance paid off.  Here's why...

    One gotcha the CC companies use on these 0% Balance transfers comes from how they apply payments you send in each month (it is in the fine print on most of CC agreements).  While the 0% applies the Balance transfer amount, any subsequent charges get charged at the normal rate until the initial balance transfer is paid back.

    For example (I will use 24% as a rate)

    If you initially transferred $20K,  and then took the same card and went to Home Depot and charged an additional $2K,  you will get charged 24% on the 2K while you are pay back the the initial $20K.  If it takes the full 18 months to pay back the $20K, you just got popped for another $720 in interest fees on the $2K you spent at Home Deot. 

    Ed

  • Lender · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2016 · 68 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    Anything having to do with Paypal is automatically off my list of options. They can literally freeze your money at any point they choose. Any point. And then force you to wait up to a year sometimes to get that back. 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 507 posts · 171 votes
    10y

    I don't plan on "credit card hacking" but this was definitely an interesting read.

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