EXPLAINED: bookkeepers v CPAs - hire one of each or combo?

EXPLAINED: bookkeepers v CPAs - hire one of each or combo?

Michael PlaksPro Member
Tax Accountant / Enrolled Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes

Should you hire a bookkeeper and a CPA separately or look for a one-stop provider?

Neither approach is inherently better than the other. Both have pros and cons. Some considerations:

- The least expensive route is to have a bookkeeper and a tax person separately, since bookkeeping is generally cheaper. A CPA's charges for bookkeeping would normally be at their regular rate.

- Also, a solo practitioner who does both taxes and bookkeeping has no way to balance their load throughout the year. As a result, almost inevitably, expect delays, poor responsiveness and cut corners.

- On the other hand, any real estate CPA will tell you that the quality of the work we see from outside bookkeepers is godawful. Then we have to tell our clients to go back to their bookkeepers and get things fixed/redone, and that ticks off everyone involved. And it costs more. And it tends to push things towards the last-minute mad rush to the IRS deadline, cutting more corners and creating more stress for everyone.

- This disconnect problem is especially harsh in real estate. Bookkeeping for real estate is extremely complicated. Regular bookkeepers have no clue. They know how to do bookkeeping for Realtors, which is very straightforward, and they foolishly assume that real estate investors are similar. Absolutely not. It's crazy complex, and unless your bookkeeper understands how real estate taxation works, there is NO WAY your books will be ready for tax preparation. Your bookkeeping money will probably be wasted.

- Same is true for pretty much all of those remote bookkeeping companies that market themselves as economical and efficient alternative. For Realtors or wholesalers - yes, it could work. For investors - a pipe dream. Even worse than working with an individual bookkeepers, these outfits will insist that they have their "systems" well-oiled and will refuse any adjustments. Of course, because it hampers their "efficiency." Which is worthless to you because their results end up useless for tax preparation.

- Bookkeepers who know real estate normally specialize in this niche and work with investors exclusively. These competent real estate bookkeepers are EXTREMELY difficult to find. In fact, much harder than finding us, good real estate tax accountants. Those few competent real estate bookkeepers who are out there are in a very high demand, meaning that they are very busy. And not cheap.

- If you're going with a multiple staff company as opposed to a one-person shop, and they provide both bookkeeping and taxes - you eliminate the disconnect problem. What you do not eliminate is the competence issue. It has to be a firm specializing in real estate, otherwise you will only get both sides botched: bookkeeping and taxes.

- And you will introduce another problem: losing flexibility in hiring help. With two separate providers, if your bookkeeper is good but your tax person is not, you keep the former and upgrade the latter. If it's the same firm, you're stuck. You either have to tolerate their underperformance  (or poor service or unreasonable pricing) on one of their two services for the sake of keeping the other - or you have to dump the entire firm and start from square one.

- Yet another problem: turnover. If your CPA firm offers bookkeeping, and their in-house bookkeeper leaves, they will be scrambling to plug the hole. Often it results in a rushed and undertrained replacement. And you have no control over that, because you're not hiring, they are.

- Finally, often you can find a real good real estate tax person who does not provide bookkeeping and, less common, a real good real estate bookkeeper who does not do taxes. For example, my tax firm does not offer bookkeeping. Are you willing to dismiss such opportunities while waiting to find a one-stop provider?

See, I gave you no recommendations. Only food for thought. The decision is your personal choice.

Closing tip: if you hire two separate providers, absolutely make sure upfront that their approaches are compatible. You don't want to bring your expensive books to your CPA on his cutoff deadline only to hear that he cannot work with this mess, and the books must be redone. If I had a nickel for every time I said this, I'd be retired by now.

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Attorney · Boston, MA · Member since 2023 · 139 posts · 75 votes
3y

@Michael Plaks so agree on the last piece. If the providers are on a different cadence it can be a nightmare and this should be discussed ahead of time

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  • Bernard ReiszPro Member
    CPA delivering RE Tax Tools: 1031 Exchange, SDIRA, 401(k), Cost Seg · New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 581 posts · 563 votes
    3y

    @Michael Plaks Didn't either get any nickels for saying this, but it's still the reason I retired (from real estate CPA services)!

  • Simon W.Business Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Lehigh Valley PA & New York City · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 659 votes
    3y

    I think it is just crucial to have both teammates know real estate and not just the general knowledge.

    I typically work with my clients' CPAs. It helps that I review their work and vice-versa. 

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  • Accountant · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2019 · 247 posts · 134 votes
    3y

    I agree there are positives and negatives to both approaches. 

  • Attorney · Boston, MA · Member since 2023 · 139 posts · 75 votes
    3y

    @Michael Plaks so agree on the last piece. If the providers are on a different cadence it can be a nightmare and this should be discussed ahead of time

  • Investor · Member since 2023 · 118 posts · 61 votes
    2y

    @Michael Plaks

    So far this thread has only had input from CPA's and attorneys.

    I used to write software for airplanes. I know if you get 10 pilots in a room and ask them how best to set up workflow (displays, data entry, etc), you get 10 different answers. If I as a bookkeeper ask 10 different CPA’s how to do real estate bookkeeping “the right way”, will I get 10 different answers?

    I’ve read and absorbed a book on RE bookkeeping written by John Hyre, CPA and attorney. If I do it that way, is that enough? Or am I going to have endless battles with CPA’s as I expand my bookkeeping practice?

    I do my own taxes and bookkeeping for my own RE deals, and I’ve had no battles with my tax preparer (me), and no IRS issues ... so far. Also done bookkeeping for 2 partnerships I was in, and the CPA we used only had a few minor questions with no corrections needed.

  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    @Michael Plaks

    So far this thread has only had input from CPA's and attorneys.

    I used to write software for airplanes. I know if you get 10 pilots in a room and ask them how best to set up workflow (displays, data entry, etc), you get 10 different answers. If I as a bookkeeper ask 10 different CPA’s how to do real estate bookkeeping “the right way”, will I get 10 different answers?

    I’ve read and absorbed a book on RE bookkeeping written by John Hyre, CPA and attorney. If I do it that way, is that enough? Or am I going to have endless battles with CPA’s as I expand my bookkeeping practice?

    I do my own taxes and bookkeeping for my own RE deals, and I’ve had no battles with my tax preparer (me), and no IRS issues ... so far. Also done bookkeeping for 2 partnerships I was in, and the CPA we used only had a few minor questions with no corrections needed.


     Hey David. I love this answer. I was an engineer before I owned by firm and this made me chuckle

  • Michael PlaksPro Member
    OP
    Tax Accountant / Enrolled Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    @Michael Plaks

    So far this thread has only had input from CPA's and attorneys.

    I used to write software for airplanes. I know if you get 10 pilots in a room and ask them how best to set up workflow (displays, data entry, etc), you get 10 different answers. If I as a bookkeeper ask 10 different CPA’s how to do real estate bookkeeping “the right way”, will I get 10 different answers?

    I’ve read and absorbed a book on RE bookkeeping written by John Hyre, CPA and attorney. If I do it that way, is that enough? Or am I going to have endless battles with CPA’s as I expand my bookkeeping practice?

    I do my own taxes and bookkeeping for my own RE deals, and I’ve had no battles with my tax preparer (me), and no IRS issues ... so far. Also done bookkeeping for 2 partnerships I was in, and the CPA we used only had a few minor questions with no corrections needed.

    I used to write software for doctors, many years ago. It's still in use by some of them, by the way. :)  Surprisingly, they more often than not agreed between themselves what they wanted. Not surprisingly, it was VERY different from what my team of software developers had in mind. 

    Lesson from this story is the same as the message in my original post: what matters is who ultimately is going to use your data and how. 

    Bookkeeping data produces financial reports. But they are not the destination. The destination is taxes. If your taxes are going to be prepared by a CPA, then you better make your bookkeeping digestible by that CPA.

    Conversely, if your taxes are prepared by you, then your bookkeeping should make sense to you, and to you only. (And to the IRS, should you get audited, but that is a different conversation.)

    John Hyre is more than an attorney and an investor. He used to have a tax business and a bookkeeping business, and he is an expert in both. His bookkeeping guide is solid, however, as far as I know, it has not been updated in at least 10 years. At one point we were going to rewrite it together actually. Bookkeeping principles has not changed since, but the QuickBooks software is now very different from his old examples. Unless John has updated his manual, its usefulness is limited, but the concepts are still valid.

    Whether his approach to bookkeeping would be embraced by your CPA depends on the CPA. So ask your CPA. In your case, ask yourself. 
  • Nate MeekerBusiness Member
    Real Estate CPA | California · Member since 2020 · 543 posts · 251 votes
    2y

    Great post. One of the easiest ways I’ve found to keep track of books for small time investors is by creating a separate bank account for each rental. Run every transaction through that account and at the end of the year you can export everything to an Excel document where you can further categorize, sort, and sum totals.

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  • Gita FaustBusiness Member
    Accountant · Richboro - Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2008 · 901 posts · 246 votes
    2y

    Instead of a bookkeeper, I would look for an accounting advisor who also offers bookkeeping services. Add one-second goal to the list to track your day-to-day operations, which will let you know your equity in the property and have your financials ready for partners, shareholders, and lenders.

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