Tax advice | To 1031 exchange to not...

Tax advice | To 1031 exchange to not...

Culver City, CA · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes

Hello, fellow bigger pocketers. I'm trying to weigh out my options on whether or not to do a 1031 exchange on the planned sale of a duplex I am about to list. I estimate that we will be on the hook for approx $100K in capital gains tax (Federal and CA) if we cash out.  I figure I could roll that into another income prop and I would essentially be using that $100K as a tax-free loan as it would be $100K less than I would need to finance. 

At the same time, I am being told by a family member that the capital gains tax has a high likelihood of increasing in the next 4-10 years depending on the party that is in the white house... He says I should pay the tax now as he thinks my tax bill will get higher if I choose to cash out later. 

I figure the "interest-free" loan on the $100K that I will not pay now along with the re-set of my depreciation recapture bill should offset the risk of a slightly higher tax bill if I decide to sell and cash out in the next 10 years? 

Is my logic off?

I'm not looking to make this a political question but I'm wondering if anyone here is taking this into consideration with their investment strategies.

Thanks-

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Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
Moderator
Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y

Did you have your tax pro calculate the gain? Cash at closing and taxable gain are not the same. 

Did you occupy 1 of the duplex units at any point? 

If you're looking at a 1031 people call it a "swap til you drop" -if you plan to defer tax forever the rate doesn't matter. 

Your friend may be right- our taxes are historically low at the moment, while they may not be higher in the next few years, they may be at some point in our life times. 

Talk to your tax pro- figure out the actual numbers. 

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  • Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Chavez:

    Hello, fellow bigger pocketers. I'm trying to weigh out my options on whether or not to do a 1031 exchange on the planned sale of a duplex I am about to list. I estimate that we will be on the hook for approx $100K in capital gains tax (Federal and CA) if we cash out.  I figure I could roll that into another income prop and I would essentially be using that $100K as a tax-free loan as it would be $100K less than I would need to finance. 

    At the same time, I am being told by a family member that the capital gains tax has a high likelihood of increasing in the next 4-10 years depending on the party that is in the white house... He says I should pay the tax now as he thinks my tax bill will get higher if I choose to cash out later. 

    I figure the "interest-free" loan on the $100K that I will not pay now along with the re-set of my depreciation recapture bill should offset the risk of a slightly higher tax bill if I decide to sell and cash out in the next 10 years? 

    Is my logic off?

    I'm not looking to make this a political question but I'm wondering if anyone here is taking this into consideration with their investment strategies.

    Thanks-

     Jonathan, I don't understand the logic.

    Sell now and pay the taxes or do a 1031 exchange in the future and risk it with a new President?

    Do you think the 1031 exchange code will be repealed with a new administration at the White House? I do NOT think so.

    So, having said that, doing a 1031 exchange will not take THAT long specially since you only have a duplex not a 100-unit apartment building. So do a 1031 exchange NOW, avoid paying the taxes no matter who sits at the Oval Office.

  • Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    Did you have your tax pro calculate the gain? Cash at closing and taxable gain are not the same. 

    Did you occupy 1 of the duplex units at any point? 

    If you're looking at a 1031 people call it a "swap til you drop" -if you plan to defer tax forever the rate doesn't matter. 

    Your friend may be right- our taxes are historically low at the moment, while they may not be higher in the next few years, they may be at some point in our life times. 

    Talk to your tax pro- figure out the actual numbers. 

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    @Jonathan Chavez, So many people want to proclaim that the sky is falling regarding taxes and potentials.  But it just doesn't work that quickly or ever.  You'll get some comfort from looking at a graph of historical top tax levels - https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-Income-Tax-Rates.aspx

    Aside from obvious extreme hikes  for WWs 1 and 2 and Korea and Vietnam (seeing a pattern here) and paying for the New Deal in the Great depression - Tax rates haven't changed that much since the tax code went into effect in the early 1900s.

    Since 1980 ish it's been relatively unchanged around an axis through 3 democratic and 4 republican administrations.  Making decisions by predicting tax policy is a no win game. Instead look at the impact of having an extra $100K to invest.  Can you get 10% on your money???  Then that is an extra $10K in your pocket every year no matter what the tax rate is.  

    Compare that over 10 years - You've made (including compounding) an additional $175k ish of income that continues to work for you.  If the current tax rate doubled you'd still be able to pay your tax out of your future gain. That's the power of tax deferral and compound interest.

    Besides 1031 has been in the code since 1919ish.  And there are several ways to turn tax deferred into tax free and never have to pay that tax.  

    The 1031 Investor5137 Reviews
  • Michael PlaksPro Member
    Tax Accountant / Enrolled Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    7y

    @Jonathan Chavez

    Your post is a little unclear - do you mean $100k in capital gains taxes or $100k in capital gains, subject to tax? I believe it's the former, since it's California. Either way, a substantial amount.

    The starting point is to verify that you really do have $100k tax impact, as @Natalie Kolodij suggested. It may be less than that, and it can be more (if you did not consider previous refinances or depreciation recapture, for example.) 

    Assume it is indeed $100k. So your friend recommends paying it now because later the tax rate can go up. Today the rate is 20% at the highest income level. So, how high do we allow it to jump in the future, politics aside? 30%? If so, your $100k tax turns into $150k tax later. You incurred extra $50k in tax in this hypothetical scenario.

    Now, if you kept it and invested it - how long would it take you to turn $100k into $150k? Or rather, do you expect your new property to appreciate at least 50% before you sell? If the answer is yes - then you WIN by deferring your taxes and investing that amount. 

    Plus, the probability of significant increase in capital gain tax rates is extremely low. Hint: most of our politicians own real estate themselves.

    Finally, as Natalie also mentioned, you can continue to 1031 forever, making tax rates irrelevant.

  • Real Estate Lender and Broker · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 966 posts · 500 votes
    7y

    @Michael Plaks

    We came close to losing the 1031 exchange in 2017 with the new tax laws.  I would hope neither party thinks that removing this exemption is a good idea in the future.  I talked to Kevin Brady a couple of years ago.  He was chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.  He is also from suburban Houston.  He really scared me as he had no clue how the 1031 exchange drives wealth and growth in this country.  We can't take it for granted.

    Mark

  • Michael PlaksPro Member
    Tax Accountant / Enrolled Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    7y

    @Mark Creason

    I don't believe we were close. Congressmen are in real estate, too.

  • Accountant · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Michael Plaks

    Not to mention striking out Sec 1031 (for real property) would definitely cause downward pressure on the demand for real estate (and thus market values) and affect the economy.

    Sometimes I like to think politicians listen to advisors who know a thing or two...

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    If it's a tax break there's always going to be some government representative who knows how to spend my money better than me!  Fortunately over the last 100 years cooler (and wiser) heads have prevailed regarding the 1031 exchange !  

    The 1031 Investor5137 Reviews
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