Bought House - Undisclosed Plumbing Issues = High Water Bill

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Bought House - Undisclosed Plumbing Issues = High Water Bill

Dennis Kronenwetter

Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 10 posts · 4 votes

Hello BP Community,

I closed on my first rental property about a month ago. The house was sold by a flipping company. Everything was great and exciting at the beginning - and then....

After buying the washer and dryer for the home I tested the washer out by running a cycle. When the water started to drain I quickly realized the down pipe was clogged about 3 feet down causing water to shoot back out like the Bellagio water show in Vegas. I tried fixing myself but quickly realized it was clogged with dried up dirt/mud. I called a plumber to come out to see about repairing since I had a tenant and I did not have the time that week with work to do myself.

Plumber came out to say the entire plumbing system was done incorrectly and there is also constant water running through the meter (even though nothing was turned on in the house). He was unable to find the home shutoff valve to determine if it was the mainline under yard or under the house leaking. This was about a week ago and I have now received Charlotte, NC Water bill showing ~39,000 gallons of water for a awesome value of $550. Plumber said it would be roughly $4300 to replace plumbing under the house and $1300 to repair mainline (if that is leaking).

BP, has anyone run into this situation before? Can I hold the flippers/sellers accountable? I have Charlotte Water investigating to hopefully forgive the high bill. I am betting this seller knew of the water issues and checked "no representation" on the disclosure forms.

Thanks for any advice!

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Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 15 votes

6y

@Matt P. At the very least, the inspector should have noticed the meter running with nothing on. That is a basic part of inspection. That is how you determine if there is an unknown leak somewhere.

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Caleb Heimsoth
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
@Dennis Kronenwetter most properties you buy the seller will choose “no representation” for everything
1 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Victor S.:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
@Victor S.
Ive been on hundreds of inspections and not once have I ever seen a home inspector do that.

well, you've learned something new :) my current inspector did this on a house we were looking at and discovered a clogged drain.

My inspector checks every drain. That is the only way to know if there is a drain clog. It does mean they need to bring a hose or bucket for drains that don't have a fixture. That being said, I do know some national franchise inspectors who do not check drains.

@Dennis Kronenwetter I would identify where the leak (and the clogs) ares first and take photos / document costs to repair. You have two options for recourse:
1. Seller - Usually your purchase contract outlines a process for disputes. My state contract requires mediation, so the seller has to show up to attempt to mediate. If you can get proof the water bill was high when they owned it, that would be proof they covered up a problem. Usually a seller will offer some concession to work through an issue like this. Even if you have to split it in half, that may be the best route. I have had a couple times that issues showed up within days of closing and my realtor negotiated a settlement with the seller. That is one reason you use a realtor, because things don't always go as planned and they know how to deal with it.
2. Inspector - If the clog or water leak is outside the scope of inspection, then it may be hard to go after them. You can ask for the inspection fee to be refunded. Bad word of mouth and reviews can destroy any business, so it is in their best interest to offer you something.
2 Reply
JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
6y
You're in my neck of the woods. You have zero chance of recovery here so I would focus your energy on fixing the problem in a timely manner and moving forward. The inspector makes a representation of what he tested on the day of inspection only. There's no way to say that a cold snap didn't break the water line or some other issue to cause the leak. If the laundry drain was listed as "not tested" or otherwise not mentioned, there is going to be language that says if they didn't mention it they didn't test it. As for high water use from the previous residents, forget it. They could have had 10 people living in the house or enjoyed watering the lawn all summer.
Your lesson here is to make sure you price your offers accordingly and never assume something works if it wasn't tested and verified to work. I have a property that I didn't find out until a couple of months into the tenancy that the washer drain wouldn't drain properly because it was sloped flat to uphill and had to build a lot of pressure to push water into the main line. I ended up having to repipe the entire washer drain circuit through an army crawl crawlspace. It happens. You fix it and move on. If a couple thousand breaks your deal it wasn't a good deal to begin with.
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Anthony Rosa
Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
6y
You can run All house plumbing and have no backup except when the washer is draining? If so, this may be isolated and not as bad as you think. 3' into the washer drain is the back-up - Why can't it be snaked or change the small section of pipe if accessible or abandon the existing pipe and re-rout to another drain.
Usually the water main shut off is near the water meter. trace the supply line attached to the meter.
Call another plumber especially one that can find the main shutoff.
1 Reply
Account Closed
Realtor · Fayetteville NC · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 12 votes
6y
@Steve Vaughan NC is a caveat emptor state. Buyer beware. If “no representation” is marked on #8(I believe) of the RPD then there may not be much you can do. I’ve seen this on both sides, buyers and sellers. Sadly it is almost always unknown to both parties and negligence on the inspection side tends to be the ultimate culprit. I’m sorry this has happened to you. Suck a pain. But maybe nicely ask for your inspection fee back and see if they will pay for a portion.
0 Reply
Anthony Rosa
Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Victor S.:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
@Victor S.
Ive been on hundreds of inspections and not once have I ever seen a home inspector do that.

well, you've learned something new :) my current inspector did this on a house we were looking at and discovered a clogged drain.
My inspector checks every drain. That is the only way to know if there is a drain clog. It does mean they need to bring a hose or bucket for drains that don't have a fixture. That being said, I do know some national franchise inspectors who do not check drains.

@Dennis Kronenwetter I would identify where the leak (and the clogs) ares first and take photos / document costs to repair. You have two options for recourse:
1. Seller - Usually your purchase contract outlines a process for disputes. My state contract requires mediation, so the seller has to show up to attempt to mediate. If you can get proof the water bill was high when they owned it, that would be proof they covered up a problem. Usually a seller will offer some concession to work through an issue like this. Even if you have to split it in half, that may be the best route. I have had a couple times that issues showed up within days of closing and my realtor negotiated a settlement with the seller. That is one reason you use a realtor, because things don't always go as planned and they know how to deal with it.
2. Inspector - If the clog or water leak is outside the scope of inspection, then it may be hard to go after them. You can ask for the inspection fee to be refunded. Bad word of mouth and reviews can destroy any business, so it is in their best interest to offer you something.
Even if you had an inspector checking every drain in the house it doesn't mean a back-up will not occur. IE: The inspector ran running water down all the drains for 10 minutes...Now, you move into the house and had a water back-up 5 minutes after running water down a drain. Can you blame the inspector for not running the water for 15 minutes because maybe he/she would have caught the back up?

When a 3rd party home inspector inspects the property at the end of each page there is a disclaimer to the effect that This is a representation of what I visually inspected and tested. I cannot be held liable for any particular occurrences whether i inspected it or not - Basically, nobody can hold the inspector liable.

Now, in NY when its time to go into the sale contract; accepting the home As-Is box is checked, the new buyer acknowledges they are accepting the home As-Is and are okay with it because they had an inspection (if they don't sign it the sale is bust because the seller will not have it any other way). It also says the seller may not be held liable for any occurrences that happen after the sale. How can the seller be held liable for any damages?

0 Reply
Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
In my area water meters are in a vault at the curb line , they belong to the county . I have never heard of an inspector opening the vault to check the water main
0 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Anthony Rosa:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Victor S.:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
@Victor S.
Ive been on hundreds of inspections and not once have I ever seen a home inspector do that.

well, you've learned something new :) my current inspector did this on a house we were looking at and discovered a clogged drain.
My inspector checks every drain. That is the only way to know if there is a drain clog. It does mean they need to bring a hose or bucket for drains that don't have a fixture. That being said, I do know some national franchise inspectors who do not check drains.

@Dennis Kronenwetter I would identify where the leak (and the clogs) ares first and take photos / document costs to repair. You have two options for recourse:
1. Seller - Usually your purchase contract outlines a process for disputes. My state contract requires mediation, so the seller has to show up to attempt to mediate. If you can get proof the water bill was high when they owned it, that would be proof they covered up a problem. Usually a seller will offer some concession to work through an issue like this. Even if you have to split it in half, that may be the best route. I have had a couple times that issues showed up within days of closing and my realtor negotiated a settlement with the seller. That is one reason you use a realtor, because things don't always go as planned and they know how to deal with it.
2. Inspector - If the clog or water leak is outside the scope of inspection, then it may be hard to go after them. You can ask for the inspection fee to be refunded. Bad word of mouth and reviews can destroy any business, so it is in their best interest to offer you something.
Even if you had an inspector checking every drain in the house it doesn't mean a back-up will not occur. IE: The inspector ran running water down all the drains for 10 minutes...Now, you move into the house and had a water back-up 5 minutes after running water down a drain. Can you blame the inspector for not running the water for 15 minutes because maybe he/she would have caught the back up?

When a 3rd party home inspector inspects the property at the end of each page there is a disclaimer to the effect that This is a representation of what I visually inspected and tested. I cannot be held liable for any particular occurrences whether i inspected it or not - Basically, nobody can hold the inspector liable.

Now, in NY when its time to go into the sale contract; accepting the home As-Is box is checked, the new buyer acknowledges they are accepting the home As-Is and are okay with it because they had an inspection (if they don't sign it the sale is bust because the seller will not have it any other way). It also says the seller may not be held liable for any occurrences that happen after the sale. How can the seller be held liable for any damages?

I don't understand your point. Running a five gallon bucket of water down a floor drain will catch a clogged drain. I am not sure why you need to run water for 15 minutes. There is a big difference between running no water and running it 15 minutes. Of course if the sewer main is clogged, then 15 minutes may not catch that. That is why you always want to run a sewer scope ideally. The point isn't to catch everything, but catch obvious stuff. Some inspectors are thorough and some are rubber stampers. That is just what I have experienced.
0 Reply
Anthony Rosa
Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Anthony Rosa:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Victor S.:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
@Victor S.
Ive been on hundreds of inspections and not once have I ever seen a home inspector do that.

well, you've learned something new :) my current inspector did this on a house we were looking at and discovered a clogged drain.
My inspector checks every drain. That is the only way to know if there is a drain clog. It does mean they need to bring a hose or bucket for drains that don't have a fixture. That being said, I do know some national franchise inspectors who do not check drains.

@Dennis Kronenwetter I would identify where the leak (and the clogs) ares first and take photos / document costs to repair. You have two options for recourse:
1. Seller - Usually your purchase contract outlines a process for disputes. My state contract requires mediation, so the seller has to show up to attempt to mediate. If you can get proof the water bill was high when they owned it, that would be proof they covered up a problem. Usually a seller will offer some concession to work through an issue like this. Even if you have to split it in half, that may be the best route. I have had a couple times that issues showed up within days of closing and my realtor negotiated a settlement with the seller. That is one reason you use a realtor, because things don't always go as planned and they know how to deal with it.
2. Inspector - If the clog or water leak is outside the scope of inspection, then it may be hard to go after them. You can ask for the inspection fee to be refunded. Bad word of mouth and reviews can destroy any business, so it is in their best interest to offer you something.
Even if you had an inspector checking every drain in the house it doesn't mean a back-up will not occur. IE: The inspector ran running water down all the drains for 10 minutes...Now, you move into the house and had a water back-up 5 minutes after running water down a drain. Can you blame the inspector for not running the water for 15 minutes because maybe he/she would have caught the back up?

When a 3rd party home inspector inspects the property at the end of each page there is a disclaimer to the effect that This is a representation of what I visually inspected and tested. I cannot be held liable for any particular occurrences whether i inspected it or not - Basically, nobody can hold the inspector liable.

Now, in NY when its time to go into the sale contract; accepting the home As-Is box is checked, the new buyer acknowledges they are accepting the home As-Is and are okay with it because they had an inspection (if they don't sign it the sale is bust because the seller will not have it any other way). It also says the seller may not be held liable for any occurrences that happen after the sale. How can the seller be held liable for any damages?

I don't understand your point. Running a five gallon bucket of water down a floor drain will catch a clogged drain. I am not sure why you need to run water for 15 minutes. There is a big difference between running no water and running it 15 minutes. Of course if the sewer main is clogged, then 15 minutes may not catch that. That is why you always want to run a sewer scope ideally. The point isn't to catch everything, but catch obvious stuff. Some inspectors are thorough and some are rubber stampers. That is just what I have experienced.
My point is that the new homeowner cannot blame the inspector or the previous homeowner when something like this event occurs. Sure, running a 5 gallon bucket into a floor drain will catch a clogged drain If the difference between the clog and top of the floor drain is less than 5 gallons. Running water for 15 minutes was just an example that I used for the homeowner playing the "who to blame game". IE: Assuming the inspector runs all sinks, dishwashers and washing machines for 10 minutes and no clog appears. Then, the new homeowner opens up a faucet and in 5 minutes there is a water backed up. Now, the new homeowner wants to blame the home inspector for not running water for 15 minutes. For a situation like that, the inspector did his/her job and if for whatever reason they could not test a particular drain(s) it should be noted in the report. I do agree that a scope is the best way to go but running water should be done also because there may be a backup before the scope entry point.

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