Creating a new business to “hang” a Solo 401K on

Creating a new business to “hang” a Solo 401K on

Atlanta, GA · Member since 2018 · 94 posts · 33 votes

Hi All,

I'm trying to determine the best structure, and the necessary entities so that I can create a new Solo 401K (for me/wife) and rollover funds from my existing 401K. My current business (where the 401K plan exists) is a single member LLC, w/Scorp election and in a field not related to real-estate . In the real-estate world, my primary focus has been on rental properties, master-leasing, notes and the occasional quick-flip. I am looking to create a legitimate business, that would pay us a salary and also allow us to continue to make retirement contributions. I'd love some feedback on this idea:

Create a multi-member LLC, (me/wife; later on the kids?) and take the S-corp election. We would primarily act as a property management firm, but only manage properties that our other entities own. We would create management agreements (with ourselves), hold annual meetings, collect rent and pay ourselves a salary, file 1120-S Tax return, etc. The only downside to this scenario, is that most of the rent revenue would become ordinary income in the new company, instead of simply being an entry on schedule E. There might also be some other tax disadvantages that I'm not aware of. Other services that the new company would provide; Notary, project management, etc. All these would be ordinary income activities in my mind.

Given the type of business services that we would provide, is this the best course? Any other suggestions would be most appreciated!

Ari

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Nicholas AiolaBusiness Member
CPA & Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

@Ari Newman The structure you describe is fairly common but it's important to make sure it's the right structure for you based on your specific scenario. As you and @Carl Fischer both mentioned - converting passive rental income into ordinary income subject to SE tax by way of paying your PM company a management fee could be costly if the proper steps aren't taken or if your tax situation doesn't allow for any benefit of your proposed structure.

You also want to be sure an S Corp election is right for you. The main benefit of an S Corp is mitigating SE tax but there are associated costs (additional tax filings, payroll, etc.) and potential tax disadvantages (how will an S Corp affect your QBI deduction? What benefits are you intending to capitalize on - how will health insurance premiums, retirement contributions, etc. be affected?) that come along with it.

In order for this type of advice to be meaningful, you will have to work with a CPA who can dig into the numbers and have a conversation about your goals to ensure the structure is right for you and your business specifically.

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  • Carl FischerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Ambler, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Ari Newman

    Is your existing 401k in your company? If so, it can be used to invest in real estate. 
    This is a very simple answer when it comes to $$.  Look at the differences such as turning rental income into ordinary income you pay an extra 15% in Medicare and social security etc. You need to look at your total picture to get the answer. You may need your cpa to help. 

  • Nicholas AiolaBusiness Member
    CPA & Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Ari Newman The structure you describe is fairly common but it's important to make sure it's the right structure for you based on your specific scenario. As you and @Carl Fischer both mentioned - converting passive rental income into ordinary income subject to SE tax by way of paying your PM company a management fee could be costly if the proper steps aren't taken or if your tax situation doesn't allow for any benefit of your proposed structure.

    You also want to be sure an S Corp election is right for you. The main benefit of an S Corp is mitigating SE tax but there are associated costs (additional tax filings, payroll, etc.) and potential tax disadvantages (how will an S Corp affect your QBI deduction? What benefits are you intending to capitalize on - how will health insurance premiums, retirement contributions, etc. be affected?) that come along with it.

    In order for this type of advice to be meaningful, you will have to work with a CPA who can dig into the numbers and have a conversation about your goals to ensure the structure is right for you and your business specifically.

    Aiola CPA, PLLC551 Reviews
  • Retirement Accounts Attorney · Southfield, MI · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    You must be eligible to set up a Solo 401k. In order to be eligible, you must be self-employed (e.g. providing goods and/or services through your personal effort), reporting self-employment activity on your taxes (e.g. Schedule C if you a sole proprietor) & you do not have any full-time w-2 employees (i.e. working 1000 hours or more per year or 500 hours per year in 3 consecutive years) working for your self-employed business or otherwise.

    Please see the following regarding Considerations re Investing in Real Estate & Considerations re Choosing a Solo 401k provider:

    General Considerations Re Investing Retirement Funds in Real Estate:

    1. If you purchase via an IRA (as opposed to a 401k), you will need to open an IRA account at a specialty trust company that allows for investments in real estate. Unless you invest via an LLC owned by the IRA, you will not have checkbook control over the funds which means you need to run transactions (e.g. income, expenses, etc.) through the trust company who will need time to process the transactions and generally charge fees for each transaction. On the other hand, keep in mind that there are costs associated with maintaining an LLC (such as the $800 annual franchise tax in California).

    2. If you are self-employed with no employees, you can set up a Solo 401k through a 401k provider which allows for investing in real estate. In that case, you can simply have the account at a bank or brokerage where you will have direct checkbook control.

    3. In either case, all of the income and expenses will need to flow in and out of the retirement account.

    4. In either case and if you will use debt to acquire the real estate, it must be non-recourse financing. See more at the following link: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/9552/70408-ira... If debt-financed real estate is acquired via an IRA, any income attributable to such investment will generally be subject to unrelated debt finance income tax.

    5. In either case, you can't live on the property or otherwise use it for personal use.

    6. In either case, you can't work on the property as it must be a passive investment (e.g. you must hire someone to fix the toilet and can't pay the expense with non-retirement funds).

    7. In either case, you must purchase/sell real estate from/to an unrelated person and the real estate can't be titled in your name personally (e.g. in the case of the 401k, it would be titled in the name of the 401k and you would sign as trustee of the 401k).

    8. In either case, you should verify that you are eligible to transfer the funds from your existing retirement account (e.g. if the funds are in your current employer 401k, you will likely not be able to transfer until you quit your job).

    Considerations in Setting up a Solo 401k to invest in real estate:

    1. First, you must be eligible to set up a Solo 401k. In order to be eligible, you must be self-employed (e.g. providing goods and/or services through your personal effort), reporting self-employment activity on your taxes (e.g. Schedule C if you a sole proprietor) & you do not have any w-2 employees working for your self-employed business or otherwise.

    2. If you are self-employed with no employees, you can set up a Solo 401k through a 401k provider which allows for investing in real estate. In that case, you can simply have the account at a bank or brokerage where you will have direct checkbook control.

    3. All of the income and expenses will need to flow in and out of the retirement account.

    4. If you will you debt to acquire the real estate, it must be non-recourse financing. See more at the following link: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/9552/70408-ira...

    5. You can't live on the property or otherwise use it for personal use.

    6. You can't work on the property as it must be a passive investment (e.g. you must hire someone to fix the toilet and can't pay the expense with non-retirement funds).

    7. You must purchase/sell real estate from/to an unrelated person and the real estate can't be titled in your name personally (e.g. in the case of the 401k, it would be titled in the name of the 401k and you would sign as trustee of the 401k).

    8. You should verify that you are eligible to transfer the funds from your existing retirement account (e.g. if the funds are in your current employer 401k, you will likely not be able to transfer until you quit your job).

    Considerations in Choosing a Solo 401k Provider:

    1. Confirm that the provider has a pristine reputation (e.g. Better Business Bureau reviews, etc.).

    2. You may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider has experience with the particular investments in which you intend to invest your retirement funds as you very likely will have questions in terms of the mechanics (e.g. how do you invest in real estate, etc.).

    3. You may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider will handle the ongoing compliance support such as any required 5500 filing (e.g. 5500-ez for a one-participant plan with assets in excess of $250,000), any required tax reporting (e.g. 1099-r in the event of a distribution or in-plan Roth conversion), mandatory plan updates and amendments, etc.

    4. If you might take a 401k loan, you may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider will prepare the required 401k participant loan documents.

  • Justin WindhamPro Member
    Banker · Nationwide · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Ari Newman

    I would definitely recommend talking with a qualified tax advisor on how to structure your entity. An S-Corp might not be recommend below a certain amount of income, which is something to consider for a new entity. As far as the Solo 401k, you should consider your longterm eligibility for the plan before jumping in. Will the self-employment activity be ongoing? Will you plan to hire full time employees? Those are a couple examples of things to consider.

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2018 · 94 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    Thanks all for the feedback.  I realized that I need to clarify a few things.

    1.  I worked with a TPA to create a 401K plan for my primary business.  Since we have employees, the company match is caped @ 6% of salary and I can make after-tax contributions that would total the allowed $57K (including Employee elective deferral) for 2020.  I am the trustee of the plan and can invest in real property, notes, etc.  My Employees can only invest in a limited number of securities.

    2.  Sooner then later, I will sell this business hence the desire to plan now and create the new entity.

    3. Although the new entity may not generate much revenue in Year 1, I would like the ability to continuing making contributions, hence the desire for a Solo 401K vs a Self-Directed IRA. The new business would only have me & possibly my Wife as Employees. (if we take the S-corp route)

    The CPA I've worked with for over 10 years is extremely knowledgeable, but knows very little about real estate.  Any recommendations for someone who could work with me to develop a strategy?

  • Carl FischerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Ambler, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Ari Newman

    Good plan you outline. There are great CPAs that continually make posts to the forums. @Michael Plaks, @Lance Lvovsky, @Ashish Acharya, @Brandon Hall are a few to start with. Seth Peabody is in Atlanta if you need local.

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