Can seller backout of contract PLEASE HELP

Can seller backout of contract PLEASE HELP

Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote

I am a first time homebuyer in California who has been looking for a home for a year and a half. Never been in escrow before as I was always priced out. But finally got my offer accepted but ran into this issue.

Seller had done the pest inspection through a company which quoted him $8500 for pest work. Report was on MLS. We read this inspection report and knew that if we buy the home we won't be going with this pest company as their quote was very expensive.We bid on the home and our offer was highest. Seller countered saying that the house will be sold "As is" and he verbally told us that he will not do pest work. We said ok and we signed the contract.

Now I am in the 17 day contingency period. We did home inspection and found lots of small issues....nothing really big. Sellers agent emails us saying that the company that gave pest quote was scheduled to do the work next week and asked us if we want to go ahead with the pest work through that company. We told him no and that we want our own pest inspector to give us a new quote as we are paying for it anyways. Two days later the sellers agent replies that the pest work is already done. The company went ahead and did the work without his knowledge. The seller knew about it but the agent didn't.

Now the agent says we have to pay fully to the pest company as we said in the contract that seller won't pay for the pest. But the contract says the home is being sold as is plus we have email proof that we were trying to get better quotes while the original company was doing the work without our knowledge.

The seller already has a higher offer on the house which he received after he accepted our offer. So I am sure he will try to back out if we don't pay the pest guy.

Can he back out of this sale ? What if he is unwilling to close the escrow until I pay the pest company ? What are my options ?

If you know a lawyer who can advise me on this issue please let me know.

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y

I'm not a lawyer, but here's what I'd do...

First, I don't believe you have any obligation to pay for the pest control, and the seller doesn't have any right to back out of the deal because of it.

Second, you may have some recourse if the seller tries to back out, but that will depend on the contract. But there's likely an easier way...

Assuming you have an agent, your agent is almost certainly entitled to his commission on this deal; in my state, if a seller backs out, it's very easy for the buyer's agent to get a judgement against the seller for their commission. Which means that if the seller backs out, they'll still be on the hook for the agent's commission; if this house is in CA, it's quite likely that the commission is more than $8500 (the amount of the pest control).

I'd have your agent remind the listing agent that their client will be on the hook for the buyer's agent commission, plus also may face other action from you. It's quite possible just the idea of having to pay the extra commission will be enough to get the seller to do the right thing.

If that doesn't work, the next step is to go to the listing agent's broker and see if the broker can talk some sense into his agent and the seller.

If neither of those work, get a lawyer...

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    OK I am not going to make a counter offer and hope to just get the pest work paid for the seller. I got some quotes and the gas furnace replacement is around 2200 while the duct work is around 1500 along with asbestos removal.

    @Marie : actually the home is off of Paterson on San Vicente drive.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    That's Goleta on my map. I lived in Goleta for several years and really liked it. Too bad they didn't name it Goleta Beach when they went for cityhood. I had no idea you could buy in those tracts for that price. Congrats on finding one and hope it closes soon!

  • Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Gaurav S.:
    OK I am not going to make a counter offer and hope to just get the pest work paid for the seller. I got some quotes and the gas furnace replacement is around 2200 while the duct work is around 1500 along with asbestos removal.

    @Marie : actually the home is off of Paterson on San Vicente drive.

    I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but there is no "Luck" involved. This is why we have contracts and contract law, it takes all the "Luck" out. Stick to the contract and close if the current terms are acceptable to you.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    OK so tomorrow is the end of contingency period. The selling agent notified the escrow company that he wishes to add a clause which states that buyers will pay for pest through escrow. The escrow officer called us and my agent told her that we are not going to sign off on paying for pest.

    She also talked to the pest company who said they wouldn't stop the closing but the wanted to be paid on full. Ofcourse they accept that the contact was initiated by the seller so technically they can't come after us but the seller said to him that if we don't agree to pay for the pest he will not sell the property to us.

    My agent is giving me two options. offer the seller to pay half of pest work or not sign the contingency and back out. In the second case I am out of $1000 for appraisal and home inspection even though I am DG following contract

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Gaurav S.:

    My agent is giving me two options. offer the seller to pay half of pest work or not sign the contingency and back out. In the second case I am out of $1000 for appraisal and home inspection even though I am DG following contract

    Your agent doesn't decide what options you have. You are the client and can do whatever you want (within the law), regardless of whether the agent agrees/approves or not.

    It's up to you how you want to proceed (I gave my opinion above), but the key here is that it's up to YOU...not your agent. If your agent has any issues with what you want to do, talk to the agent's broker.

    Btw, what contingency does your agent want you to sign?

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    13y

    Gauruv, I think you mean "remove the contingency" when you say "sign the contingency".
    If so, then yes, remove the contingency and let them know you're preparing to close, as per contract. Send them the report detailing asbestos, if you haven't. I assume you have verified that your purchase agreement does not require you to pay for the termite treatment. If your agent can tell you what your options are if the buyer balks, then ask the agent's broker.

  • Rental Property Investor · Irving, TX · Member since 2010 · 107 posts · 34 votes
    13y

    Without seeing your contract, it's hard to give definitive advice, but on the surface, I agree with J Scott and those other agents who have offered their opinions.

    Just to share my experience on a similar deal and I was the listing agent - My seller had second thoughts after the contract was signed and wanted to back out (just like your seller). I had to gently remind him that if he chose to back out of the contract, he would be the one breaching the contract and the buyer could sue for specific performance. Contracts are there to protect both parties. Read them carefully and you'll know where your rights are.

    Angie

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Gaurav S.:
    Oh.... I didn't know that. Well they already have a backup offer higher than mine so probably they won't negotiate anyways.

    I guess I am counting on the pest issue to get resolved in my favor.

    Excuse me, it sounds as if you are in a very strong legal position. You can make his life hell. I'd have my attorney file a lis pendens ASAP. In MD that would only cost me a couple hundred bucks and guarantees he can't resell it.

    The pest issue seems to me to be a non issue. You didn't contract with the pest people the owner did end of story.

    The house can transfer without the pest people being paid. (Unless the file a workman's lien but not likely before settlement)
    Good luck - Ned

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Before you get legally fortified, I suggest being pragmatic about the pest repairs. Have you seen the completed work and are you satisfied with it? Was the house tented as part of the treatment? That has real value, IMO. If the pest treatments are completed, your move-in won't be slowed down. If you offer to pay half of the $8K, and the seller accepts that, is that the same $4K you were going to spend for treatment and repairs anyway? In previous posts you said you were planning to do the treatment and repairs after you saw the initial report when it was part of the listing.

    It sounds like the seller and agent are asking to you sign an addendum, not a contingency. He wants to change the terms of the original purchase agreement so that you pay for repairs (that he ordered). If you really want the house and the $4K makes sense to you, I would counter with offering to pay half, and let the seller pay half from his proceeds.

    The seller IS liable for the entire pest repair bill, but I suggest you not let the principal of the thing get in the way of buying the house you want IF you can come to a satisfactory compromise. (Although I do wonder if his agent is giving him accurate info about trying to back out of this contract. Even so, sellers do what they want to do.) As others have suggested, you can insist on performing on the contract, but you'll be into that project for more than $4K before you know it. $350/hr for attorneys adds up fast.

    Who is the listing agent? If you want to send me a PM or email and let me know, maybe I can help.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ned Carey:
    Originally posted by Gaurav S.:
    Oh.... I didn't know that. Well they already have a backup offer higher than mine so probably they won't negotiate anyways.

    I guess I am counting on the pest issue to get resolved in my favor.

    Excuse me, it sounds as if you are in a very strong legal position. You can make his life hell. I'd have my attorney file a lis pendens ASAP. In MD that would only cost me a couple hundred bucks and guarantees he can't resell it.

    The pest issue seems to me to be a non issue. You didn't contract with the pest people the owner did end of story.

    The house can transfer without the pest people being paid. (Unless the file a workman's lien but not likely before settlement)
    Good luck - Ned

    Ned: Unless the OP is a pro per kinda guy or a legal eagle, there is no cheap lis pendens solution in CA. The statewide civil case filing fee starts at $435. And attorneys here in SB are $300-400/hr. For an attorney to execute and record the simplest doc is at least two billable hours. Even if the lis pendens is successful, the OP will be in at least 2K (after the attorney bills more hours to cancel the LP) just to threaten the seller. LPs make sense in the right situation, of course. Hopefully there is an acceptable compromise for the OP.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Yes you guys are right. I meant signing the contingency removal form.

    The listing agent also sent us an addendum which says the following

    "Buyer are to pay through escrow the cost for pest control repairs from xxx Pest Control Report dated 2/27/2013.
    [b]
    Escrow is not to close until this addendum is signed by Buyer and Seller. "

    So if I don't sign the addendum he is saying we can't close. Is that legal ?

    I am now leaning towards offering him 50% of the pest work even though I know I will have to pay 40k on top of that to fix the home. But the listing agent is not talking to my agent at all. He doesn't talk to her or reply to her emails. He is just trying to do his own thing.

    My agent told me that listing agent called the pest company and asked them to put a mechanics lien on the home to prevent the closing !!!! Does that even make sense ? How will the owner sell the home if the mechanics lien is put on the home ? I feel the listing agent is going on a personal vendetta and owner is not even in the loop here.

    Anyways, I have 12 hrs to decide to fight this battle or move on.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    BTW this is estate sale. So I am not sure if that changes the legal process if the sale doesn't close on time.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Gaurav S.:

    "Buyer are to pay through escrow the cost for pest control repairs from xxx Pest Control Report dated 2/27/2013.
    [b]
    Escrow is not to close until this addendum is signed by Buyer and Seller. "

    So if I don't sign the addendum he is saying we can't close. Is that legal ?

    Yes it is 100% legal. Free country the owner agent can say what they want - freedom of speech and all that. Of course although legal it is totally unenforceable.

    Until you sign it the addendum has no legal weight. So the instruction not to close has no force behind it.

    Frankly it is pretty laughable.

    Not advice, but I would absolutely not pay, now that they are playing games.

    It seems to me a friendly but assertive talking to the Broker (head agent) is in order.

    I would (again not advice for you, just how I would respond)

    1) Remind him that his agent is putting his brokers license at risk.
    2) That his agent is breaking his fiduciary duty to his client by putting his client at risk.
    3) The agent is "interfering with a contract" That is a tort that I could sue the brokerage and the agent for.
    4) That I believe the agent has "abandoned" the listing because of his failure to respond to me or my agent. I therefore request he assigns another agent to the listing. (alternatively I might threaten the agent with this by leaving a message with him or her t get the agent to respond)
    5) That the contract is very clear and that no one will side with his agent or seller.
    6) That I won't hesitate to file a complaint with the real estate commission so he, the broker, better personally get involved and fast.

    I would then contact the title company. (First I would make sure they are not stupid enough to follow the unsigned addendum's instructions not to close. Sadly some title companies are stupid enough to believe that.) I would tell them to schedule closing and I would show up whether I believed the buyer would be there or not. I would them make it clear to the Seller his agent and the broker that I would be at closing and if the seller is not there he or she will be in default.

    Now that is what I would do. My reason is that people who are professional and have a fiduciary duty to do what is right need to be held accountable. My guess is the agent doesn't have the courage to stand up to his or her stupid client and is taking it out on you.

    I have the confidence to know I am right, what I can enforce and how far I can take a threat. However you have the contract in front of you and have to decide these issues for yourself, or with the help of an attorney.

    Ok I am wound up. I hope I can get to sleep.

    Best of luck and let us know how it turns out. It's a great story. - Ned

    PS: The fact it is an estate could be to your advantage. The executor or personal rep has a responsibility to do whats right. However there could be a risk someone without the authority for the estate may have signed the original contract. In which case you may have no contract at all. Boy would the real estate agent be in one mess then.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks for letting me know the name of the listing agent . I was hoping it was someone who worked in a brokerage where I know other agents. The agent is indeed doing his own thing. He is DBA under one of the low-budget flat fee listing franchises. Nothing wrong with those, as I'm a fan and repeat user of flat fee listing services. But it means the seller was looking for a discount when selecting an agent, which isn't always a good sign.

    I suggest getting clear about the max. that you and your wife want to pay for the house and make your counter offer and leave it at that. To be honest, and just my opinion, but that's a lot of house for the money. Finding a "fixer" in SB is challenging, as I'm sure your finding in your home search. Updating aside, that house is very livable and in pretty good condition. You could move in today. That's always a plus in this area.

    The property does not appear to be a true estate sale as I see no evidence that the wife is deceased. Do you know for certain that both owners are deceased? Who signed the purchase agreement as seller? If both parties are deceased, it's unlikely that they could close this month as the husband died October 2012. If the property really is an estate sale,, your purchase agreement would/should spell out any specifics and contingencies that require court approval or a finalized court order.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ned Carey:

    I would then contact the title company. (First I would make sure they are not stupid enough to follow the unsigned addendum's instructions not to close. Sadly some title companies are stupid enough to believe that.) I would tell them to schedule closing and I would show up whether I believed the buyer would be there or not. I would them make it clear to the Seller his agent and the broker that I would be at closing and if the seller is not there he or she will be in default.

    More state specifics, Ned. No one attends a closing in CA. It's all done remotely. Docs and funds are gathered and then recorded and disbursed. The escrow/title company is totally and absolutely neutral. They'll close if everything is signed and funded. If not, they will hold off, indefinitely. They will not cancel an escrow or close an escrow or refund EM funds without the permission in writing from both parties or a court order. It sounds like the seller, in this case, would be happy to refund the OP's EM in order to perhaps take a better offer (that we assume includes paying 100% of the pest treatment/repairs). But if the OP holds out in order to perform on the original terms of his contract, he's looking at lawyer money in order to file an LP or suit for specific performance. And his EM could be in limbo 4evah until the seller comes to his senses.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Thank you so much for spending your precious time on this issue. You are the only people who are supporting me while everyone else (title company lady, my realtor,her broker, and her other colleagues) are all advising me to give in or walk away.

    Here are the most noteworthy parts of the purchase contract. These are four different snapshots. Please click on them to zoom in. Most important in my mind is #11 where "Wood Destroying Pest Inspection and Allocation of Cost Addendum" has not been selected/provided.

    [url]https://plus.google.com/photos/107558014387610912697/albums/5865093673210661025?authkey=CITt2aK1hLOvDA

    Yes both husband and wife have passed away and the five children are going to get the proceeds from this sale. One of the brothers has signed off on all the documents. He is also the one who ordered the pest inspection work.

    The contract does say that " The property is being sold by the executor of the estate for xxx subject to the approval of Probate Court".

    Ned Carey : I don't think he even has a head agent or broker above him. He works for this independent firms as Marie pointed out. All your other points are valid and I will try to use that strategy.

    Here are some pictures of the home
    [/url]https://plus.google.com/photos/107558014387610912697/albums/5859507916502765905

    K. Marie Poe : There is not much room for negotiation on price as seller already has a better offer. Also, tomorrow morning my contingency period expires so I don't have time left for that anyways.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    K. Marie Poe You are spot on. The cheaper option of mediation or arbitration are not available to me as this is a Estate sale through a probate court. The lawsuit itself will cost me more than the pest work.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    The heirs just filed the probate in January. It takes a min. of 6 months to get that type of probate action closed in CA (and I've never seen it done that fast). They are are many months away from closing, IMO. Also, if the property needs to be sold to satisfy debts (as opposed to being distributed to the heirs), the property will be subject to a public bid up at court. There are a lot of variables to the probate part of this sale.

    Only you know if the property is worth holding out for.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:

    Only you know if the property is worth holding out for.

    From what I can tell you know this area better than anyone, including the buyer.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Joe Delia:
    Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:

    Only you know if the property is worth holding out for.

    From what I can tell you know this area better than anyone, including the buyer.

    Yeah, it's probably because of the 20 years that I've lived here. And that houses and REI and the data and the legal stuff that go with it are my idea of fun. Not so fun for those that are just trying to buy their first house where starter home choices are very old 2BDR fixers in town or 1970s suburban ranch properties.....with few choices under $600K.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Hi Everyone,

    We decided to not fight this battle and did not remove the contingency. Since this was a estate sale I did not have the cheaper mediation/arbitration tools available to me and suing the seller would have cost as much money as the pest remediation problem.

    Also after we notified the selling agent that we were backing out he forwarded an email to me where my realtor had asked the seller to do the Section 1 of the pest work before the appraisal. So if I would have gone to the court this email would have definitely worked against me.

    My realtor never told me that she had asked the seller to do the pest work before appraisal. She kept insisting that the seller went ahead and did this work on his own and we shouldn't pay for it. But from day one it was the seller who was going to initiate the work and we had verbal agreement that we would pay for it.

    Now I am wondering if I should fire my realtor :(

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Marie if you find a affordable home that is not in MLS and you are not interested in buying please send it my ways. As a first time homebuyer we have been looking for a year and a half now and have bidded on several homes. We have been outbid each and every time by offers way above the asking price.

    There was a home listed recently in Monte Vista school district. It was 4bd/2ba listed for 1 million. It got 15 bids and it got sold for 1.3M an all cash purchase.

    In this hot market would you recommend us to not waste our time and just keep renting ? Frankly this house hunting has become a full time job on weekends with no progress or end in sight.

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 105 posts · 31 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Gaurav S.:

    My realtor never told me that she had asked the seller to do the pest work before appraisal. She kept insisting that the seller went ahead and did this work on his own and we shouldn't pay for it. But from day one it was the seller who was going to initiate the work and we had verbal agreement that we would pay for it.

    Now I am wondering if I should fire my realtor :(

    This is why realtors have insurance. She lied because she knew how much trouble she'd be in once you knew the truth. Go to her broker. She needs to pony up that cash so you can move forward. Maybe even give up her commision (if legal).

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Gaurav,

    Sorry that I came late to the party. Based on what K. Marie said above about the property and the area, it's my opinion that you will regret in the very near future for backing out of this deal. If it were me, I'd have asked your agent to pay 1/2 for the pest work and call it a day. It's not worth losing this deal over several thousand dollars.

    Good luck with future house hunting.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    I'm concerned that you say there is an email from your agent to the seller that actually has her approving going forward with the pest work. What does she say about that?

    I'm sorry that I don't have any wise words about the house hunt. Renting in SB can be a very good deal. $3K a month in rent will often get you way more house than a $3K PITI payment. We are (finally) back on the appreciation track here. But if you had bought an SB house in 2003-5, you'd just be coming out of a long upside-down period, and your house would now be worth what you paid for it. Yay.

    It sounds like you are still a few years from needing a certain school district. No wise words on that either. I didn't send my kids to school. SB schools are at best average, and mostly worse than average. We could and did do better by spending time at home, at the beach, the park and the library. They turned out fine. :)

    So far I haven't done any deals in the South County. The North County (and Ventura County) is more my speed when it comes to coastal RE. That being said, I'm always looking and have considered some major rehab/resale projects here. Since there's a lot of competition, I'll have to find the ones that need my special skills (title and estate related issues).

    If you do decide to keep looking, definitely get clear with your agent about what went down on this one.

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