Attorneys disagreeing over LLC Operating & Partnership Agreement

Attorneys disagreeing over LLC Operating & Partnership Agreement

Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes

Hello BP!

Would love an insight on what is going on here...

My business partner has engaged an attorney for the LLC (not LP) to draft a "partnership" agreement.

I’ve passed the agreement to my attorney and she insists on:

1- my business partner downloaded a templates and drafted himself (which he did not)

2- the “partnership” agreement is incorrect and needs to be completely rewritten as it’s structured as a Limited Partnership Agreement

I am at a loss here because the attorney my partner engaged insists that she’s right and my attorney insists that the other attorney is wrong.

Any insight to whether or not this has happened to you?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Alice

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Investor · Dallas TX, United States · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

Lawyers get paid by the billable hour. If they don't see a problem then they have nothing to bill you for. It is likely that one of these lawyers is trying to milk one of you. How about, you and your partner find a 3rd attorney to draft the document. If you cant agree on a lawyer, you might not survive as partners. 

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  • Investor · Dallas TX, United States · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Lawyers get paid by the billable hour. If they don't see a problem then they have nothing to bill you for. It is likely that one of these lawyers is trying to milk one of you. How about, you and your partner find a 3rd attorney to draft the document. If you cant agree on a lawyer, you might not survive as partners. 

  • Accountant · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    It sounds like the drafting attorney was either given the wrong information, or has no idea what they are doing.

    An LLC needs an "operating agreement" not a "partnership agreement".

    An LLC's operating agreement should not be written in the context of a Limited Partnership, as these are two different legal entities governed by state law.

    Your attorney sounds the most correct based on limited information.

  • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Hey, attys, some times, to the point of killing a deal, advocate for their clients interest.

    Are both attys experienced in RE law and partnerships, I don't know Canada?

    Otherwise, remember when you hire ONE atty, you're employing at least TWO :)

  • Attorney · Slidell, LA · Member since 2016 · 322 posts · 179 votes
    6y

    Sadly, it's pretty common for an attorney to pull a template if they're not well-versed in the types of entities you're working with.

  • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Out of curiosity, what does LA do differently on property transactions?  I know you have a different property description, but does that affect a standard sale on commercial property?

    Had one guy ask me about an apt in Metarie once and outside of not being close enough to French Quarter, I didn't know bupkus.

  • Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I'm mostly uncomfortable that your partner has one attorney, and you have another...

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Anthony Wick

    Sorry Anthony, and others, who have brought this up.

    We have one attorney for the LLC, but the attorney works with the LLC and not the individual members in the LLC as it'll be a conflict of interest.

    Hence, I have my own attorney, watching for my 50% of the interest in the partnership.

    I've advised my partner to do the same if he wishes so we each have an attorney protecting our interest, in addition to the LLC.

  • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    "I'm mostly uncomfortable that your partner has one attorney, and you have another."

    See it a lot here, especially if the partners are linked more by business (I wanna make a profit) interests vs. being grade school buddies and I do understand that.

    Not so much a trust issue as getting things defined up front.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Steve Morris

    I should specify the LLC is in Texas and so are the two attorneys.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Josh Caldwell

    The attorney my partner engaged to draft the partnership agreement is a flat rate basis. Perhaps that’s a warning sign in itself?

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Eamonn McElroy

    These are my thoughts too...thank you.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Sean Morrison

    Thank you for the confirmation. I stopped reading the agreement after 3 sections as I didn’t think it’s applicable to us. Makes sense now it’s a template.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Steve Morris

    Hey Steve, what do you mean by doing things differently in LA?

  • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    "Hey Steve, what do you mean by doing things differently in LA?"

    Meant Lousiana.  They have parishes instead of counties and diff prop descriptions,

    If you though Los Angeles, they're just different down there.

  • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I should specify the LLC is in Texas and so are the two attorneys.

    Am hoping the property is in TX?

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Steve Morris

    That is correct.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Steve Morris

    I see. You meant for the note to be directly at

    @Sean Morrison, who is in LA. Got it 😉

  • Attorney · Slidell, LA · Member since 2016 · 322 posts · 179 votes
    6y

    Property transactions aren't substantially different in Louisiana than anywhere else. Unless you're getting into pretty specific areas, or using unique tools like bond-for-deeds, it's the same game. You'll want to watch out for succession issues, which can be pretty different.

  • Attorney · Northbrook, IL · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 549 votes
    6y

    @Alice Huang I quote a flat rate for doing the operating agreement of an LLC so that's not a red flag. If you are creating an LLC you don't necessarily need a partnership agreement because the operating agreement of the LLC acts as a partnership agreement. Sounds like you have a pissing match between attorneys because they want to get your future business and aren't happy they are only getting a piece.

    One attorney should present the operating agreement and if the other isn't happy with it, they can make recommended changes or corrections. This might run up a bill for you though.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Bob Floss II

    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for writing. My attorney specifically said, she could either represent me alone, or the LLC, but not both, due to conflict of interest.

    Is that not the case?

  • Attorney · Danville, PA · Member since 2017 · 26 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    @Alice Huang I agree with @Bob Floss II. In my practice, I quote flat fees for just about everything so that shouldn't be a red flag. As a tax attorney, I always ask my clients what's the purpose your trying to achieve. If it's just a simple operating agreement for you LLC, my operating agreements hardly ever mention partnerships as the differences between the two can be vast, and I prefer to keep the two completely separate to avoid confusion, especially for the IRS. I have practices in PA and GA, and I have never seen a partnership agreement used for your situation. I do know attorneys who pull these agreements off the internet or a business law firm practice guide handbook without knowing the implications. My personal suggestions would be to have a discussion with your partner to learn what objectives need to be achieved with the agreement and then have that discussion with an independent attorney who specializes in business law. The truth is you really should try and get this right as the headaches will only get bigger if it's not. Good Luck!

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 223 posts · 83 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chase Cannon:

    @Alice Huang I agree with @Bob Floss II. In my practice, I quote flat fees for just about everything so that shouldn't be a red flag. As a tax attorney, I always ask my clients what's the purpose your trying to achieve. If it's just a simple operating agreement for you LLC, my operating agreements hardly ever mention partnerships as the differences between the two can be vast, and I prefer to keep the two completely separate to avoid confusion, especially for the IRS. I have practices in PA and GA, and I have never seen a partnership agreement used for your situation. I do know attorneys who pull these agreements off the internet or a business law firm practice guide handbook without knowing the implications. My personal suggestions would be to have a discussion with your partner to learn what objectives need to be achieved with the agreement and then have that discussion with an independent attorney who specializes in business law. The truth is you really should try and get this right as the headaches will only get bigger if it's not. Good Luck!

    Thank you Chase.

    The LLC attorney just wrote us (word for word):
    "As long as other factors were also present - you both share profits, both participate in control, agree to share losses and both contribute money to the operation - then under Texas law you will be considered partners. We can omit the specific operation language. You just need to be have the elements necessary to claim a partnership for tax purposes."

    Is this true?!  

  • Attorney · Danville, PA · Member since 2017 · 26 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    @Alice Huang I can not comment on specific Texas law as it relates to the formation of partnerships. However, I was able to find an article from a law firm in Houston that does a very nice job walking through Texas partnership structure as it relates to real estate. You can find it here: https://lonestarlandlaw.com/partnerships-and-joint-ventures/

  • Josh C.Pro Member
    Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Alice Huang

    The conflict of interest thing is dumb to me. Shouldn't the 50/50 LLC equally benefit both sides? So what's good for the LLC is good for you? Is it likely the LLC will do something not in the member's best interest?

    I’d nope right out of there.

  • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Sean Morrison:

    Property transactions aren't substantially different in Louisiana than anywhere else. Unless you're getting into pretty specific areas, or using unique tools like bond-for-deeds, it's the same game. You'll want to watch out for succession issues, which can be pretty different.

     I get asked about LA as an investment market (mostly by guys from there originally), so now I have someone to refer them to.

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