Tenants Threatening 'Repair and Deduct' for a Finicky Stove

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Tenants Threatening 'Repair and Deduct' for a Finicky Stove

Kevin Huang
Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes

I have some tenants who are complaining to me about a 'broken' stove where 1 out of the 4 range tops wouldn't ignite. I had someone come out and take a look at it today, and before leaving he called me down and I was able to light all 4 of the range tops prior to him leaving.

I just received a text from the tenants stating that they still can't get the top to light, to which I responded that it might just be finicky and that they might need to try it a few times. I also let them know that I was able to get it to light myself. Their response was that the stove was not 'fully fixed' and then threatened to buy a new stove to replace it and deduct the costs out of their next months rent if it is not up to their standards within the next 14 days, which a lawyer told them they would be able to do.

I was pretty baffled by the unreasonableness and ingratitude of their response, but it seems too late to try and change any of that, and at this point what I want to do is just wait out the 14 days and see what happens. I've done some research online as to what I'm able to do and as far as I can tell, I don't believe I'm obligated to do anything more. That said, I'm no expert and I have basically no experience with things like this, so wanted to pick your brains over here for your general thoughts on the situation as well as any advice that you have to offer.

Thanks in advance - any help is sincerely appreciated!

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John Teachout
Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
5y

Just replace the stove. If you're convinced nothing is wrong with it, keep it and use it somewhere else. This is a minor issue and it's being made into a spitting contest. A gas stove should light on the first attempt. It shouldn't require finesse. It's not an unreasonable request by the tenants.

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  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    What does your lease say regarding repairs? Here they would have to give you written notice and you have 30 days to repair before tenants can escrow rent with the court but that is probably different where you are. I think I'd schedule a visit with them and watch them try to light it and see if you can deal with it as a training issue. Most modern stoves have electric starters, is it a really old stove? if so, perhaps you could just get a newer one off craigslist of fb marketplace.

    1Reply
  • Taylor L.
    Rental Property Investor · RVA · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    Have you talked with a lawyer for yourself? Local and state laws are extremely important. You need to know the law and have a policy in place for your company that is compliant with local, state, and federal laws. Let's say they do it - what do you do next? Is it legal for them to do that in your area? Are they required to place the money into escrow? etc. Time to ask the legal pros.

    3Reply
  • Suzanne PlayerPro Member
    Attorney · New York City / Long Island, NY · Member since 2020 · 597 posts · 248 votes
    5y

    Are these long time tenants?  Are they normally good tenants?  Do they have a long history of paying rent on time with no problems?  If the stove is really old anyway and they are good tenants that could stay for the long term, maybe replacing the stove is a good move.  

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  • Kevin Huang
    OP
    Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    5y

    Thanks for the responses guys - per IL law, I believe they are required to provide me written notice 14 days in advance via certified or registered mail, which has not been done.  They're students and I definitely do not expect them to stay beyond this year, especially at this point.

    My question is really this - does a finicky stove where the burner may take a few tries to ignite successfully qualify as a 'broken appliance'?  I feel like they are being a bit unreasonable with their demands, but I do want to know if I'm just seeing this from a misplaced perspective.

    1Reply
  • Chris John
    Member since 2020 · 671 posts · 937 votes
    5y

    @Kevin Huang

    Take a video of you lighting it and tell them to sue away.  I'd go out of my way to spite them if your side of the story is accurate.

    Good luck!

    1Reply
  • Suzanne PlayerPro Member
    Attorney · New York City / Long Island, NY · Member since 2020 · 597 posts · 248 votes
    5y

    Kevin, you can litigate or you can negotiate, but this looks like a negotiation situation to me.  It's a very minor repair request in the scheme of things & happens all the time.

    Have you called an appliance repair co & asked how much their basic visit charge is, & how much it would cost to replace 1 burner (since that seems to be the most likely situation)?

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    5y

    Is this a gas or electric stove? 

    Your argument is hollow. An appliance should start when you turn it on, not have you fiddle with it because it's "finicky" until it lights. That is unreasonable and I think any court would find you ridiculous on this stance. A brand new electric coil stove costs about $400 on the bottom end and a gas stove not much different.

    If this is an electric coil stove, new burners and new plugs are cheap if you don't want to replace the whole stove and are simple to install. If this is gas, you really don't want anyone having gas popping out of the stove while they try to light the "finicky" burner.

    If it were my house I would repair or replace the appliance. I wouldn't have to get to that point. 

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  • Karl B.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Have the tradesman who fixed the stove send you a letter stating he fixed the stove and it works properly. You can make a copy of this letter and post it on the tenants' door. 

    2Reply
  • Tushar P.
    Member since 2019 · 332 posts · 171 votes
    5y

    Kitchen is used everyday, more than once. Why would any tenant want to continue to deal with a ‘finicky’ stove? What they are being subjected to is not good for their mental health, and that’s why they made their demand. Don’t be a slumlord.

    2Reply
  • John Teachout
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    Just replace the stove. If you're convinced nothing is wrong with it, keep it and use it somewhere else. This is a minor issue and it's being made into a spitting contest. A gas stove should light on the first attempt. It shouldn't require finesse. It's not an unreasonable request by the tenants.

    6Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y

    Sounds like a gas stove , clean the burner . Take it apart , get some small wire to clean out the holes . Gas wont light if the holes are clogged . Also clean the igniter 

    3Reply
  • Dan Maciejewski
    Realtor · PInellas County Largo, FL · Member since 2016 · 902 posts · 810 votes
    5y

    I would pop over and have them show me the issue.  I don't like when a repairman says something is fixed and the tenant says otherwise.  At that point I have to see for myself.

    As someone said above, if it's "finicky," it might be dirty.  If it takes a few tries to light consistently, you may want to look into getting it replaced.  I wouldn't want something that "mostly" worked in my units.  Imagine a "finicky toilet" that mostly flushes after a few tries!  It looks like it's about $250, which seems like a lot when you can get a new one for like $400-600.  

    2Reply
  • Reginald Pittman
    Member since 2021 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    5y

    @Kevin Huang

    I’ve own single family houses. When a tenant threatened to fix something and deduct the rent, I referred to the lease agreement. Most leasing agreements do not allow this. Write your tenant a letter stating that you will fix the stove and expect the full rent, as stated in the lease. Make sure it’s in writing. If you have a lawyer, cc your lawyer to let the tenant know you are serious. Now, if you really need the rent money and it’s hard to find good tenants, weigh your options. I would enforce the lease agreement, fix the stove, and get all of my rent money!

    1Reply
  • John Clark
    Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y
    I had the inverse problem: One gas burner (of four) wouldn't light and I discovered it when the gas company came in to make sure appliances were working properly after moving the meter. I asked the tenant, who told me that that burner had never really worked (she'd been there four years), but she didn't want to bother me with "small stuff." I scolded her and told her to let me know whenever anything doesn't work properly. She pays rent, she's entitled to a working apartment.

    Then I called a repairman -- broken internal stem meant turning the knob was useless. Turned out the stove was so old that you couldn't get parts any more. I bought her a new stove. Home Depot had a sale on one model of Amana gas stoves -- $650 marked down to $450. Cost me $80 for the repairman to come out re the old stove (twice, once with a replacement part that didn't work due to age of stove).

    As for your question, the tenant is entitled to repair and deduct, but must use the cheapest method. Most of the time that means repair, not replace. There are times, however, when replacement is the cheapest option. And yes, you can wind up paying more for replacement if the repair try fails 9like mine did).

    Start pricing stoves, and get a real appliance repairman out there to actually repair/replace parts. Preferably while tenants are there, and even you, if possible.

    And no, you can't have my tenant.
    5Reply
  • Frank Chin
    Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Kevin Huang

    I had similar issues with tenants, as well as my own stove. One of our tenants had an electric stove, and the burners had problems coming on soon after they moved in so we can't blame them. It was an 8 year old stove I bought for a previous tenant. When 3 of the 4 burner went out, got an appliance repair man to come by, but the minimum charge is $100 for a visit, and any additional work is extra. Paid almost $300 for the repair that lasted 2 months, so we asked ourselves, what now? Instead of paying another $300, we got a $600 new stove, on sale for less than $500 with a 12 month warranty. We got an extended 5 year warranty in addition as I recall for $180.00 . This warranty provides for $50 per repair. Good thing I did. Had a repair done at no charge a month before the 12 month warranty expired. Then another repair done a few months after on the extended warranty for $50 to be paid for by the tenant as the lease calls for tenants responsible for repairs under $100. Tenant and I was on good terms so I even volunteered to cover the $50.00. It's been over 3 years now and the stove had no issues since, knock on wood.

    My experience had been if the stove is over 8 or 10 years, the best thing is to get a new one or you'll be consistently running over to check it out. The extended warranty is a great time and money saver besides being great for reducing anxiety.

    3Reply
  • Karl ForsheePro Member
    Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 6 votes
    5y

    Ok I’ll throw in my 2 cents

    Our personal gas stove has a similar issue. All the burners work perfect. However, if I light the back left burner. Then while keeping it on I try to light the right front burner it won’t ignite unless I let a lot of gas out and use a match. Obviously not the best solution.

    I finally determined that when I turn on the back left burner it generates just enough air movement to “blow out” or keep a fire from starting on the other burner since the igniter is on that side. The same will happen if I open our kitchen window first.

    So now I’m mindful of the order we ignite the burners Or I use my hand to block the wind. Although I would never ask a tenant to put their hand near the igniter while lighting it. Lastly, if the hardware isn’t put back correctly after cleaning the stove it won’t work.

    I’m doing IT in my day job and I’ve learned playing 20 questions goes along way to solve problems instead of making assumptions. Works with renters too

    All that just to say what I would do

    1. Ask more questions to learn in what scenarios does it become tough to light. Maybe watch them do it. Say I would like to understand the problem more clearly, can you show me what’s going on? Either in person or something like FaceTime. Of course in person is better. I’ve learned that some of the brightest people aren’t that bright in simple things. Or the mother of these kids didn’t teach them the basics

    2. If it is like my experience above or them not understanding how something works then a simple education is in order.

    3. If it’s clearly a problem with the stove then call the service man back or find another

    4. If it’s beyond repair or too expensive to fix then replace it

    The important thing is they see you are working with them to resolve the issue and not ignoring it. If you don’t solve it now the next tenant will complain about the same thing

    0Reply
  • Judy Parker
    Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
    5y

    First of all check your Lease. There should be a paragraph to the effect of "Landlord supplies refrigerator, stove, washer and dryer, however it is Tenant's responsibility to keep the appliances in good working order."

    If three out of four burners work fine, Tenant can not use "Repair and Deduct," which is only used in life threatening situations (i.e., no heat in the middle of winter). 

    Make arrangements to watch tenant turn on the alleged defective burner. I assume this is a gas stove? The tube or holes may be clogged, which is an easy fix - just unclog them with a fine wire.

    As a last resort, buy a new stove. They are very inexpensive. Check out the "Landlord's Specials" or "Scratch and Dents" at PC Richards or Home Depot.

    0Reply
  • Dennis Wayne
    Member since 2020 · 339 posts · 356 votes
    5y

    Before you really peeve the guy off by posting notices hiring lawyers or calling in the national guard go over and look at the $&@@ stove ! Maybe it’s a piece of crap and you gotta buy a 150$ off market place . Is it really worth causing a huge war over and having this guy stop paying for two months and have to litigate .

    0Reply
  • Michael Plante
    Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Kevin Huang:

    I have some tenants who are complaining to me about a 'broken' stove where 1 out of the 4 range tops wouldn't ignite. I had someone come out and take a look at it today, and before leaving he called me down and I was able to light all 4 of the range tops prior to him leaving.

    I just received a text from the tenants stating that they still can't get the top to light, to which I responded that it might just be finicky and that they might need to try it a few times. I also let them know that I was able to get it to light myself. Their response was that the stove was not 'fully fixed' and then threatened to buy a new stove to replace it and deduct the costs out of their next months rent if it is not up to their standards within the next 14 days, which a lawyer told them they would be able to do.

    I was pretty baffled by the unreasonableness and ingratitude of their response, but it seems too late to try and change any of that, and at this point what I want to do is just wait out the 14 days and see what happens. I've done some research online as to what I'm able to do and as far as I can tell, I don't believe I'm obligated to do anything more. That said, I'm no expert and I have basically no experience with things like this, so wanted to pick your brains over here for your general thoughts on the situation as well as any advice that you have to offer.

    Thanks in advance - any help is sincerely appreciated!


     $500 for a new stove I would have just replaced it and told my tenants sorry for the trouble.   If you like please feel free to sell it and keep the money 

    0Reply
  • Keith McCoslin
    Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    @Kevin Huang I see a lot of good points, both pro and con getting it repaired or replaced. In your reply you mentioned you’re in Illinois, which isn’t known for being a landlord friendly state as far as the courts are concerned. I like the idea of a meeting with the tenants where you can either show them that it does work reliably or they can show you that it doesn’t, then you can decide next steps from there. I would also document this meeting as well as your prior discussions with them and your actions regarding the stove so that you have that ready, just in case. It sounds like they’re not following the proper procedures for withholding rent, so if they do withhold rent, and you can show that you’ve tried to be reasonable at every step, the withholding would probably not be deemed legitimate and they’d be short on the rent, which is grounds for eviction. The court fees alone are probably more than the cost of a repair, however, and as students, they’re probably gone in a matter of months anyway.

    0Reply
  • Catheryn Barry
    Member since 2018 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    5y

    @Kevin Huang I moved into a house with a gas stove after having always used electric. Almost 6 years later I STILL get nervous if it doesn't work 100% perfectly. Like someone else suggested, I would schedule a time with them to have them show you the problem themselves. Listen to their concerns. If you know what they're doing wrong then demonstrate the stove yourself or you will see what the problem is. There's zero need to turn this into a power struggle.

    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    5y

    Perhaps they don't know what they are doing or as someone said, it is having a combination of burners on or the order in which they are lit. Were they there when the repair man was?

    0Reply
  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    @Kevin Huang - if one burner doesn't ignite it either needs to be cleaned or the cap is off center.  Go over there, take the cap off, clean out the part where the gas comes on, and try it again.  If it lights, take a video of you lighting all the burners and make sure to send it to them for their records along with the invoice from the repair company.

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  • Terrell Garren
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    M2M agreements. One ultimatum and I'll mention the agreement. 2nd ultimatum and I I'll find someone that appreciates my property.

    2Reply
  • Curtis Mears
    Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 729 posts · 596 votes
    5y

    @Kevin Huang I have a finicky gas grill I personally use outside my house. Sometimes it lights, sometimes I throw matches at it with the gas on until there is a large "woosh" sound and a small explosion, but it lights. Do you really want students lighting the stove inside your house by throwing matches at it from a distance? I think not. Fix the stove. And if it is electric, fix the stove.

    0Reply
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