Secondary Credit Number ?
Real Estate Investor · baltimore · Member since 2008 · 5 posts · 0 votes
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I have heard about this 9 digit number but I thought it was called a CPN number. Here is a link to the privacy act. I don't know about a clean slate, but I do have on and I use it for non government issues (You cannot use it for government issues ie...taxs, fha, va, employment). I don't sale this, I'm just giving info.
http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/1974ssnu.htm
Using ANYTHING oter than your government issued SS# to apply for a loan is fraud. NEW CREDIT FILE SCAMS are all over the place and the customer is the one who ends up paying the price. You can not just erased you entire credit profile and start all over. This isnt even close to legall. Look it up folks.
Thanks for the info, Alina! We're going to keep this post live in order to help people understand what kind of stuff is out there.
I have heard about this 9 digit number but I thought it was called a CPN number. Here is a link to the privacy act. I don't know about a clean slate, but I do have on and I use it for non government issues (You cannot use it for government issues ie...taxs, fha, va, employment). I don't sale this, I'm just giving info.
http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/1974ssnu.htm
Alina is correct! Using another number is FRAUD! What confuses me is why people are actually offering this as a remedy for fixing their credit. I do this for a living and there are so many great techniques out there to improve your credit score that one does not need to resort to illegal scams or fraud.
There are CPN and TIN numbers people use when applying for bussiness credit but if you are applying for a home mortgage and the form asks you for your SS number and you use ANYTHING other than you government issued SS number, it's fraud as clearly stated in the terms and conditions. This applies to credit cards and almost all other forms of credit. Just because you don't get caught once or twice doesnt mean you won't get caught down the road and fraud is no slap on the wrist. Why would it be legall to just go out and get a new number? What would be the point of credit scores if that were the case? :) Just be carful out there.... the sharks love cold water and the days of hot financing are long over!
Well.... in some cases we add their rental history up to the past 3 years to reflect as an open active REV tradeline that continues to report as long as you are not late, if you move the subscriber will continue to report with the new landlord.... How is that fraudlent? We are working on being able to do the same thing with cell phone bills and other utilities.... don't asume, it's not an apealing quality. Another form of tradeline is Authorized user accounts which although are still not counted by all underwritters, they still help boost your score. Example: Wife has a Macy's card she's had for years and never been late on. Why not add the husband as an authorized user so that he gets credit for the payments too? It's not fraudulent is it? Should he not also get credit for that? It's not like we are making up tradelines and reporting to the credit report.. not like making up a new number so they don't have to be responsible for their inability to pay their bills in the past. Everything we do it carefully looked over by our team of lawyers to make sure it is legall. We are not some over night chop shop, we have been around over 13 years. We've had 0 complaints with the BBB.. don't believe me? Look it up.
Authorized users do not get any FICO goodness any more. The example you used of the husband being added to the wife's account only works if it is converted to a joint account.
As to adding the rental history and other non-traditional trade lines, Fair Issacs has already said they are going to adjust the models to either exclude or severely reduce any positive impact those provide.
However, all of this is moot in the current lending environment. Underwriters are not going to let anything the least bit questionable slide any more.
Taz.... you are completley inccorect. FICO 08 has not even been implemented yet and my cstomers authorized user accounts are still showing up on credit reports. I recently had my husband add me to 3 of his cards and as of last week they not only reported by my scores are higher. Tell me something..... everyone think carefully and tell e why it would make sence for all three credir bureaus to se the same scoring module? (FICO08) wouldn't they all be pretty much reporting the same score? Wouldnt that negate the need to have 3 credit bureaus? So why would they purposely put themselves out of business... why would banks want to pay to see three scores when they are all the same? Everything Taz has said here is hearsay not fact. (except the fact that using a secondary number is illegal.... because it is) Unfortunatley there are many credit myths out their that are very inccorect. Trust me when I say that when these changes are implemeted we will be amoung the first to know. We are all board certified by the NATIONAL BOARD OF CREDIT EDUCATION (NBCE) This means we were trained and certified to know everything there is to know about credit. We are not some fly by night useless "Credit Repair" company shooting off dispute letters and calling it credit repair.
The score you see with your consumer report is absolutely NOT a FICO score and NONE of them claim it is.
Then it should be trivially easy for you post links to verifiable data to prove that hearsay incorrect.
You also seem to forget FICO is not monolithic. Most of the lenders out there don't even get the FICO from Equifax, Experian or Transunion, they use a customized version from Fair Issacs run against the raw data in the credit files.
I can't find any details on your National Board of Credit Education. Care to provide some details?
Exactly... thats what I was saying... FICO 08 isnt implemented yet. The webite for the board of credit edcation is down or I'm ptting it in wrong. Be patient and I'll post that information. Still not sure where you are getting your from though. Tell me... what is your job title that makes you qualified to give advice on credit.
A consumer will never, ever, not ever, not under any circumstance see their real FICO score. What's more the score for a mortgage lender is NOT the same as the score a utility will see or a credit card or a department store instant credit or even an employer.
The credit scores offered to consumers by the credit bureaus uses their own algorithms. The one offered to consumers by Fair Issacs on myfico.com is the generic one no lender uses.
Qualifications huh? Let's see ...
I have been a major shareholder in a private lender for almost 20 years. I have served my normal rotation as the managing member of that lender four times. I know lending from a lenders perspective. When we signed up with Fair Issacs, I am the one who negotiated the first contract and decided on the criteria to be used in "our" model.
I have been an active investor in real estate for over 24 years. I know lending from an investors perspective.
I am the publisher of a private site catering to the needs of investors. We employ a full-time research staff as well as real honest to God non-guru Subject Matter Experts, some of which just happen to have legal and accounting degrees.
I'll be happy to compare my CV with yours should you desire to pursue this line.
Being a lender shareholder, in no way qualifies you as an expert in credit. I was an underwritter with several lenders as well as an account manager and AE, that alone doesnt qualify me either. Every LO thinks that just because they can read credit scores that they know about credit and its just not true.
I am not arguing that a consumer will never see the same scores as a finiacial institution or the like pulling their credit. It states on most sites in the disclaimer that these consumer websites use their own scoring modules based on the public information provided by the bureasu to generate their own credit scores.
BTW, why don't you explain to the readers here the differences between ...
Consumer Credit Report
vs
Merchant Credit Report
vs
Standard Factual Credit Report
vs
Investigative Credit Report
Two hints, two of those are the same just called different things by different providers and as a lender we use the 3rd one.
ING uses the raw data and runs the FICO model with their variable adjustments on it.
Just like there is no super secret the wealthy keep from the unwashed masses about making money, there is no secret about credit either. Well, unless the fundamentals of economics and risk are alien to you, then it all looks like secrets and magic.
This information is flat out incorrect. I can't even believe how far off base you are. Stop giving advice out of the scope of your profession, you may end up misinforming someone at their expense. 75% of credit reports have errors on them and there is NO law that states a subscriber must provide proof of them item they are reporting so your claims that all items are accurate are ridiculous. Taz... you don't know what you are talking about. You sound like an educated man but I think your relying too heavily on a source of information that is just incorrect.
Alina & Taz, I appreciate both of your contributions here. This must be kept non-personal. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Please keep this discussion civil and non-personal.
I never said everything in the credit files was accurate. If you are going to continue to misrepresent my writings you can continue this discussion with yourself.
However, opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one and everybody thinks everyone else's stinks.
Have a good one.
Oracle is the database engine the most of the bureaus use. It is part of the back end technology.
if the app says SSN and you give a CPN, TIN, SCN or bloody CNN its FRAUD
lol
plain and simple
lets pretent that a CPN or SCN is real..if they app requires a SSN, wtf will you give other wise
sorry for my anger
and i am sure that i didnt read everything
but this stuff pisses me off
STOP ENCOURAGING FRAUD
I love when people like Alina and others spout that everything is fraud if it varies from the norm. I have been in finance as a lender for 15 years, both personal and corporate and though there is fraud out there not everything thing is.
Most people don't know how much information the top three have on them ir that depending on the plan they buy as a creditor some information your score can vary. When you pull your score privately, it can be up to 100 points higher then when a auto dealer or mortgage lender. Simply put they want the information that isn't readily available. Judgments that should be off can be included.
Try getting a merged report straightened out. where a person screws up your middle name, it could take years. There was a push to tighten up the FICO software so it would harder for people to dispute information on their report. Where do you draw the line.
Before trying to correct or improve your credit do your research. Take to an attorney, find out your options before your pay for a service. But the true be told you CAN improve your score, it just takes some hard work.
And remember if you do get back on track monitor your credit daily. Watch it closely because mistakes and fraud can wipe you out quickly.
ok
I have read a lot of what was written and the bottom line is putting any other number on an application that asks you for a SSN is fraud. If you want to ask the lender if you can use another number other than your SSN, be my guest...lol...i will post a report that I wrote on my blog going through some details and some truths about these secondary numbers and CPNs.
http://www.creditrich.net/the-truth-about-cpns-letting-the-cat-out-the-bad-credit-bag/
thats the link but the report is below
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This post has information that part of me thinks that I should not put on the blog but another part of me says that people need to be aware. CPN stands for Credit Profile Number or Credit Privacy Number, or pretty much what ever the “credit guru’s†that sell them choose to call them. The following is a report that I gave out for free a while back, but I see that these CPN guys are still at it and I have a couple clients emailing and calling me with questions. The following is in the context of an ebook because that is where I took it from.
DISCLAIMER
Intended for informational purposes only
Read the following page very closely before you start.
The information provided in this E-book is not intended to be considered legal advice in any way. This is simply to show you HOW companies are obtaining Credit Privacy Numbers or Credit Profile Numbers. In no way do we encourage anyone to use the following information.
Any misuse of this information is fully your responsibility. If you should choose to create a CPN that is your decision alone and in no way do we encourage anyone to do so. It is not illegal to have a new number for business however, but what is done with this number can be illegal and that, again, is why this is only for informational purposes and is not sold in an attempt to scam, cheat or defraud any creditors what so ever.
The Truth about CPNs.
For those of you who do not know, a CPN or SCN is something that is being sold on the internet under the pretence of creating a new credit file.
This report is meant to expose the truth about CPN Numbers, more commonly referred to as credit privacy identification numbers! or Credit Privacy Numbers and recently I have seen something called an SPN which is even more absurd. .Many people like you, read on the Internet about CPN numbers that offer a new start by giving you a brand new credit file.
Let me start my saying that most believable lies are based on some truth. Here is the only thing in the stories about the advent of CPNs that are true. Social Security numbers were not created for credit building purposes. They were created for identity purposes and technically, you are not required to use your social security number for building credit. This is something that many credit repair companies site as the reason for a CPN. What they do not continue to say is that NO LENDER’S credit application has a space for an alternative number. When applying for personal credit, all lenders require a social security number. If you have a lender that allows you to knowingly submit a CPN please let me know.
When the credit bureaus decided to use social security number to as one control to indentify an individual’s credit file, they needed a creative way to get your social security number into their database. Now, acquiring the entire database of social security numbers from the social security administrations is actually illegal because there are a number of privacy laws that will be broken so an alternative system has to be developed and this system has ridiculous flaws.
The system that was created is this:
When you first apply for credit, a file will automatically be created. WOOHOO. Genius. Now let me explain in a little more detail what I mean by this so you will have a clear idea what I am talking about. Let us say that you were born in 1991 and you are one of the lucky ones where your credit was never used by your family before you turn 18(yes it happens). So you now turn 18 and you want to go out and apply for your very first credit card or bank account. When the lender requests your credit for the very first time, they get a response that reads something like this “No Record Foundâ€. Now if they go back 2 minutes later and request information on you again, they will get a response that reads something like this, “Insufficient Creditâ€. What does this mean? It means that the simple pull of your credit had created a new credit file. WOW. Exactly, I am sure you feel like I do.
Now, you will think that if you use a social that is already issued and used for credit, the bureaus will pick this up immediately. That’s not the case. I have seen cases where individuals buy a CPN and use it for months before the two files merge. Now what do I mean by the two files merging? At some point, something triggers the computers that the credit bureaus use to finally realize that one person is using two files or two people are using one number. At this point, all the credit from both files will be merged. There is no way to know if your old credit and the new file will merge or your new file and the previous owner of that number will merge.
In some cases you can buy a CPN from one of these frauds that was not issued to anyone and you will think that that is a good deal but this is the issue with that. First, let us understand how social security numbers work. The first three numbers is created through some sought of charge to identify which state the SSN was issued. The second two numbers are suppose to indentify the year it was issued and the last four numbers just go in a sequence. Now let me give you a real life scenario that happened to clearly understand how these SSNs work.
When I first came to the US a number of years ago, I came to go to school. Being an immigrant means that I did not have a SSN so I had to be issued one. The international student association organized for all the international student to go at the same time. We then realized that all our social security numbers were one after each other. Who would have known that 10+ years later, this will give me insight on how SSNs work. So my friend’s social was 218-61-1000(an example), mine was 218-61-1001 and the others were 1002, 1003 and so on. Thinking back on how SSNs are issued, this situation showed me two things:
When these “Credit Gurus†aka Frauds, tell you that you need a social that’s issued in the year you were born, that’s wrong. You simply need a social issued in a year after you were born.
I better understand the sequences. 218 are socials issued in Maryland and 61 indentifies the year it was issued and the last four simply increase in order.
Now that we know all this you may want to know how SSNs are validated and viewed. So we know that due to various privacy laws, the banks and the credit bureaus cannot have the database of SSNs and names. So how do sites like ssnvalidator.com “validate†your so-called CPN? They do this through public information. The Social Security office publishes a list of sequences that are used in every state and the year that they are used. Because I know that 217-61-XXXX was issued in 2001 I checked to see if these sites are correct and they are. They simply use the public database of public information that the social security administration issued. Another way to test this is to go to one of those sites and put in 222-22-2222 and they will spit out a year and state they were issued. Also, the only way they can tell you if a social was not issued to anyone is it is a number in which the sequence isn’t used yet. The problem with these numbers is that some banks also check your ssn with the public information database. So most of these so-called CPNs that are being sold that pass the first basic scan by the banks are actually someone else’s social. This is a HUGE issue because if/when the two files merge, the person who owns that social will see all the accounts and tradelines on your file and now the word will be out.
The Inside Scoop on the Ads
I just want to touch quickly on many of these ads that are out there. You may see ads on craigslist or backpage that read like this, “Get a CPN with a tri-merge report. Only the pros will give you proofâ€. Or something like, “Receive a new credit file with a $500 Visa or Master Card and a $100 store cardâ€.
Lets first talk about ad 1: “Get a CPN with a tri-merge report. Only the pros will give you proofâ€
A tri-merge report is simply a credit report of the new number. If they are using any service to pull credit in order to create the credit files, they automatically get the tri-merge report. Now any mortgage broker and most loan officers out there have access to such a system, so it doesn’t take a genius to produce a report. If the person are even more fraudulent, they can do something as simple as creating the number out of thin air, then use all the information provided and apply for any credit card on the internet. That will automatically create a file. Then, if they had a tri-merge report in pdf formal(as they usually come), they can use a pdf editor to create a fake clean report and send it to you via email.
Ad 2
When you are offered a credit card with the file you assume that everything is on the up and up. That’s not the case. The person selling you the file simply uses this new credit file created and applies to a bank that offers credit to people with no credit history. So basically these guys are first creating a file by pulling these numbers, name and address from some source and then applying for a credit card. This is all done in as little as 15 minutes and are selling these dangerous numbers on the internet for $500+. I know for a fact that most of the cards that are being offered are from Capital one, which is sad because if there are more and more fraudulent applications that are being approved everyday, they will stop giving credit to people who actually want to start establishing credit.
My conclusion and suggestion is that we should stick to the basics.
Marc
Not meaning to bump this post or anything. I have been seeing a lot of this lately so I did some research. All of what you guys said in this post was very informative and thank you for that.
This is what I found to be fact about the law on it is.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_secondary_credit_numbers_legal
So my determination is. It may be unethical but not illegal as there is no law saying you have to give your social security number. Meaning you can give another number if you want to. Not that I would use this service as I believe it to be unethical. Now for instance if you had never gotten credit before using your ssn then this would be ok other than that I see no reason why it would be used except to avoid your credit issues and that seems to be fraudulent and the law needs to be fixed on this issue.