Fresher than Mint - Tracking Personal Finances

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Fresher than Mint - Tracking Personal Finances

Julie MarquezPro Member
Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes

I highly recommend that people track their personal finances, especially beginners that are just learning about real estate. I use (obsess?) mint.com, but there are lots of platforms and other's that have come up in forum discussions that people highly recommend. This article lists alternatives that are fresher than Mint, and I'll list them here.

I love to get other people's opinions and thoughts. I have only tried Mint, and don't really want to switch because then I might not have the history I have created in my Mint account. But if it's easy to switch to another platform and there is something better, I'm all ears.

1. Personal Capital

2. You Need A Budget (YNAB)

3. Quicken

4. EveryDollar

5. MoneyDance

6. PowerWallet

7. LearnVest

8. CountAbout

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Mark Smith
Schaghticoke, NY · Member since 2015 · 216 posts · 57 votes
9y

Great advice in here from @Ben Leybovich as always.  Thanks for making me want to quit my W-2 job even more!  And just to stay on topic @Julie Marquez, I have an obsession with Mint as well.  I have not used any of the others so for all I know they're all better than Mint, but I probably spend 10 minutes a day on Mint even if I haven't spent a dollar!

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  • Benjamin C.
    Investor · Stamford, CT · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 16 votes
    9y
    I'm a big fan of personal capital, I think it's better then mint for net worth tracking. It also have nice features to analyze your portfolio across multiple accounts you may have. But I also use mint, I think it's better for budgeting.
    2Reply
  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    +1 for Personal Capital. Their fee analyzer alone saved me thousands!

    [email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #261
    BiggerPockets
    3Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Brandon Turner does it all on a napkin (when he does it), and he has more money that all you all (cause he just worries about creating more). What's up with that?! haha

    There are like 4 really good lessons in what I wrote above. Help me out, @Mindy Jensen :)

    0Reply
  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    Ben is a big proponent of "just earn more." But Ben, how do you know when you have enough?

    Plus, Brandon's like 12, so he is still in the wealth accumulation phase of life. 

    I was shocked when I threw my numbers through Personal Capital. Some of the funds I was invested in came with pretty hefty fees that would cost me thousands of dollars for basically nothing in return.

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  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    Spend less, to earn more, @Ben Leybovich . No one is arguing against the merits of earning more. But, if you work a full-time job and spend everything you earn, you can't reliably earn more without building a business, on the side. Very difficult to do. 

    I use both Mint and Personal Capital. Takes like 10 minutes to hook everything up, so the cost to using more than one is very very low. I use mint for budgeting and keeping track of my expenses, including those which are tax deductible, and find their system extremely intuitive. 

    I find Mint to be way too rigid, and I happen to invest entirely through Robinhood (free trading). Robinhood does not have an integration with Mint. This is not Mint's fault, but Mint does not allow me the option to put in manual investment holdings. Personal Capital does. So, I use Personal Capital to track my net worth (at least those parts of my net worth that can be harnessed in the pursuit of financial freedom - doesn't count retirement accounts, my car, or home equity if I owned a home that wasn't an investment property). 

    I use Mint to track the retirement accounts, car, and spending. I use Personal Capital to measure my progress towards financial freedom.

    If you can spend less than $2,000 per month you may find that it is extremely easy to begin accumulating assets, switch jobs to one that offers more opportunity, or start a business with very low risk. So I say track your spending, build an efficient lifestyle, so that you can start really turning on the hose on the income front.

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  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Mindy Jensen, @Scott Trench - you guys are funny...

    Last night I had at my dinner table a guy who has already paid $72,000 in income/FICA taxes this year, and by the time it's all said and done, this number is more than likely going to go up.  He was here asking questions...at least he is smart enough to ask me, instead of Scott :)

    Scott - you are totally wrong in your characterization of my message. Here's the thing - he has an option of earning an extra $100,000 next year. But, having done the figures, it is clear that because of jumping bracket he would lose at least $60,000 to taxes. That is to say that in addition to what he paid this year, he would pay $60,000 more... What the hell is the point of working that hard for so little?!

    Your guys's interpretation of me which would have you go and earn more topline, ignoring all else, is just about as far from the actual advice I would offer, which is this:

    Frugality is key - it matters less how much you earn, and more how little you spend of what you earn. And having said this, however, it's time to realize that while Scott would have you focus on skipping starbucks (which I concur with), and tightening your belt in every other way, my advice to you is - don't sweat all that small stuff. You are being robbed and killed before you even see your paycheck. Focus instead on the big stuff, like getting down from 33% effective tax rate to 4%. If you can do that, you'll realize that you don't need to deprive yourself of everything :)

    Now - what is important to realize is that W2 income creates an iron-clad barrier between you and a low effective tax rate. Scott doesn't like to talk about that. Nether does Dave Ramsey. But - W2 income is your problem...not spending an extra $400/month :)

    0Reply
  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    9y

    You are ahead of 95% of the country, who think a mint is for their breath (and who care more about their breath than they do their finances).

    2Reply
  • Patrick Squires
    Investor · Oxford, MI · Member since 2016 · 110 posts · 41 votes
    9y
    I used mint. At first it seemed great then a hassle. It is Personal Cap- for me now - love it.
    2Reply
  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
    9y

    @Scott Trench Great explanation of the two services. I'll try Personal Capital along with my beloved Mint and see how it works for me. No matter how much or little you make or spend, I think it's a useful tool to understand yourself and your goals.

    0Reply
  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    Ben - you are absolutely right. W2 Income is less efficient that real estate cash flow, dollar for dollar. This is why I work at BiggerPockets and why I save everything I can and learn as much as I can so that I can invest in real estate and rapidly make that a dominant source of income.

    And, I believe that for many people starting out on this journey, this comes down to being smart with the biggest parts of their spending - namely housing and transportation. However, if you are willing to cut back on those things, you might naturally also feel inclined to optimize the rest of your spending. Hence, Mint and Personal Capital. 

    Sorry - did not mean to provoke! 

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    0Reply
  • Chris K.
    Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @julie marquez

    One question to ask is whether it makes sense to use two different websites for essentially the same task. I'm fairly OCD when it comes to apps and websites, so I often find myself trying to find the "perfect" tool or website instead of focusing on what @Ben Leybovich would call the "big stuff." As someone who had to keep track of every billable minute, I know too well how much time I can waste looking for the perfect tool. :) 

    Now I did check out Personal Capital, but I didn't see anything strong reason to change from Mint. For my IRA and 401k investments, I'm what people call a "boglehead" so I rarely do any kind of active management. So Mint gives me enough information to make sure nothing funny is going on (e.g. account balance showing $0 due to hacking).

    0Reply
  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
    9y

    @Chris K. Good to hear that you found no difference in the two platforms for yourself. That's useful information for me, I'm like you, I like to keep track but I don't have too many moving investments.

    0Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Scott Trench:

    Ben - you are absolutely right. W2 Income is less efficient that real estate cash flow, dollar for dollar. This is why I work at BiggerPockets and why I save everything I can and learn as much as I can so that I can invest in real estate and rapidly make that a dominant source of income.

    And, I believe that for many people starting out on this journey, this comes down to being smart with the biggest parts of their spending - namely housing and transportation. However, if you are willing to cut back on those things, you might naturally also feel inclined to optimize the rest of your spending. Hence, Mint and Personal Capital. 

    Sorry - did not mean to provoke! 

     Scott - I know you just had surgery, so I am being really nice here...this is me being nice! First - speedy recovery to you, Scott! Second - you're wrong again lol

    W2 income is not just less efficient than real estate cash flow. It is also less efficient than any business cash flow, self-employment cash flow, or just about anything else.

    RE is the obvious thing here. not only are there no FICA taxes, but because of paper losses we are able to knock down taxable bracket as well. However, you can also accomplish a lot of the same things, though not efficiently, via entity formation for other business streams outside of RE.

    Scott - there's just no way to dress this pig up. W2 income is just terrible. It's bad from a dependance stand point. It's bad from a growth stand point. It's bad from a stability stand point. And, God knows it's bad from a tax stand point. It's just bad...

    Now - this may be the highest and best use of one's time in-spite of low efficiency. Fine. But, let's agree that a salary of minimum of $200,000 is what's needed before W2 starts to look attractive.

    @Brandon Hall - help me out here, brother!

    1Reply
  • Jay Kadlec
    Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2017 · 64 posts · 23 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Scott Trench:

    Spend less, to earn more, @Ben Leybovich . No one is arguing against the merits of earning more. But, if you work a full-time job and spend everything you earn, you can't reliably earn more without building a business, on the side. Very difficult to do. 

    I use both Mint and Personal Capital. Takes like 10 minutes to hook everything up, so the cost to using more than one is very very low. I use mint for budgeting and keeping track of my expenses, including those which are tax deductible, and find their system extremely intuitive. 

    I find Mint to be way too rigid, and I happen to invest entirely through Robinhood (free trading). Robinhood does not have an integration with Mint. This is not Mint's fault, but Mint does not allow me the option to put in manual investment holdings. Personal Capital does. So, I use Personal Capital to track my net worth (at least those parts of my net worth that can be harnessed in the pursuit of financial freedom - doesn't count retirement accounts, my car, or home equity if I owned a home that wasn't an investment property). 

    I use Mint to track the retirement accounts, car, and spending. I use Personal Capital to measure my progress towards financial freedom.

    If you can spend less than $2,000 per month you may find that it is extremely easy to begin accumulating assets, switch jobs to one that offers more opportunity, or start a business with very low risk. So I say track your spending, build an efficient lifestyle, so that you can start really turning on the hose on the income front.

     Thanks for the explanation Scott! I had been using Mint myself but found it a little limiting on the investment side (not that I have a huge amount right now). I checked out Personal Capital and it definitely seems more geared toward the investment side than the budget side that Mint focuses on. Signed up and will use both going forward.

    0Reply
  • Brandon Hall
    CPA · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Scott Trench @Ben Leybovich

    You're both right, and neither of you are wrong. And you both know that I'm more of a "earn more income" guy over the "save more" scenario.

    If you earn $75,000, you'll pay roughly $14,000 in federal tax, $4,650 in Social Security, and $1,087 in Medicare. Your awesome salary has dropped to $55,263 prior to accounting for state taxes and your annual spending needs.

    Once all is accounted for, you'll probably be in the $20k-25k range for discretionary income. Then you have to have the discipline to really block out all the marketing, social draws, tools, toys, etc that threaten to take your $20k-$25k away.

    If you successfully save the $25k, it will still take you ten years to save $250k. Of course, I'm not accounting for salary increases or compounding interest because we're keeping it simple here. 

    I don't want to wait ten years to save $250k. That's the slow lane to wealth. And the entire time I'm really buckling down and saying "no" to potentially fun activities so that I can continue to dutifully save my $250k.

    A W-2 job will not make you rich. Unless that W-2 job also provides you with stock options or a salary in excess of $300k (no stats to back the $300k up, just an observation I've made with working with tons of different people). 

    On the other hand, if you are a business owner, you ability to grow your net worth is exponentially faster. First, when you land a client, you are the one receiving the income. Second, businesses are valued on gross revenue or net profit multipliers. So when I land a client, not only does my income increase, but my net worth also increases as my business is now more valuable (assuming I was pricing to sell). Third, when I spend money on something business related (like almost all of my meals, travel, home office equipment, etc) I get roughly a 45-50% discount on the cost of the item due to the tax savings from expensing the item. This is a magnificently powerful aspect of running a business that I try to coach my clients on. 

    The experience I have had with my CPA firm may be unique, but I'll never be able to work a W-2 job again. I've recognized that I have the ability to generate more net income in one year in my business than I would have had in five years in my W-2 job. And I can sell my business. You can't sell a W-2 job. 

    My advice: focus on growing your income by investing time and money into building out additional streams of income. Forget penny pinching. Once your earnings level off, or you're exhausted from continuously pounding the pavement, then kick back and enjoy (and save) your income streams that you've worked hard to build.

    @Mindy Jensen I don't know why people say "how much is enough?" It's like providing an excuse for not wanting to earn more money and it essentially provides for a negative connotation for anyone seeking to grow their income significantly. There's nothing wrong with wanting to grow your net worth to multi-millions or billions of dollars. 

    2Reply
  • Lindsey Leemis
    Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 11 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Julie Marquez - I love personal capital! :)

    1Reply
  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Those platforms are good for creating budgets but they don't integrate well with every company's login/password system. The best way to track net worth is with a custom spreadsheet that you update manually every quarter.
    1Reply
  • Kevin Phu
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 507 posts · 171 votes
    9y

    I made a Mint account before and just never followed through with consistently using it. I'll definitely have to get back on it. I'll also have to check out Personal Capital. Made a huge work/life transition recently so I'm still trying to iron out my financial situation/plan.

    1Reply
  • Mark Smith
    Schaghticoke, NY · Member since 2015 · 216 posts · 57 votes
    9y

    Great advice in here from @Ben Leybovich as always.  Thanks for making me want to quit my W-2 job even more!  And just to stay on topic @Julie Marquez, I have an obsession with Mint as well.  I have not used any of the others so for all I know they're all better than Mint, but I probably spend 10 minutes a day on Mint even if I haven't spent a dollar!

    3Reply
  • Don SpaffordPro Member
    Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 912 posts · 629 votes
    9y

    Maybe this is not the right forum for this, but besides Mint and PC, for tracking your RE business finances, is there a preferred software? Is Quicken Home & Business effective enough without spending more for Quickbooks Pro or some other accounting software? Or does Personal Capital cover everything enough to get your business income & expenses? Again, sorry if this is not the right forum, I'm fairly new here and was looking for a forum on this topic. Thanks!

    1Reply
  • Matthew Murphy
    Investor · Rochester, WA · Member since 2013 · 221 posts · 30 votes
    9y

    I used excel for many years, when we were younger. My W2 and real estate income over a few years grew very fast and I just didnt make time do a household budget.  We have always been pretty frugal and invested. I set up mint a couple years ago and have not been strict enough with it but it is one of my goals for 2017. I looked into personal capital last year sometime, I might revisit it after some of your recommendations.

    0Reply
  • Porsha Fross
    Member since 2023 · 35 posts · 10 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mindy Jensen:

    +1 for Personal Capital. Their fee analyzer alone saved me thousands!


     Hey, Mindy. If you don't mind me asking, how did you use personal capital to save thousands?

    0Reply
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