Commercial property insurance cancelled for ivy on building?
Rental Property Investor 路 Jersey City, NJ 路 Member since 2011 路 1k+ posts 路 876 votes
Our insurer for an urban, commercial multifamily inspected our property and sent a cancellation notice pending correction of a laundry list of BS, including a sidewalk with a 1" max lip and Virginia Creeper on the side of the building and unconnected garage. WTF? Our sidewalk is in great shape compared to many in the area. Another ridiculous one was demanding that I repair the outer front door so it locks when it's never been locked in 25 years and locking it would prevent access to the mailboxes and intercom that are before the actual locked door for visitors postal workers and deliveries. We're looking for a new insurer, but I was wondering if anyone else had dealt with nonsense like this?
I have had insurance companies require repairs. Had a house I sold on a land contract that the owner could not afford to do the repairs on so we put a Loyds of London policy on it until he made the repairs. It is the insurance company prerogative to assess their risk. I make sure my lobby doors lock also. It drives me crazy when I find the tenants leaving them open. It's a safety risk. You either move the mailboxes outside or give the mail person a key. Vines in the house compromise the frame by separating the siding which lets moisture in. That is a rental inspection violation too. Just fix them and move on.
I have had insurance companies require repairs. Had a house I sold on a land contract that the owner could not afford to do the repairs on so we put a Loyds of London policy on it until he made the repairs. It is the insurance company prerogative to assess their risk. I make sure my lobby doors lock also. It drives me crazy when I find the tenants leaving them open. It's a safety risk. You either move the mailboxes outside or give the mail person a key. Vines in the house compromise the frame by separating the siding which lets moisture in. That is a rental inspection violation too. Just fix them and move on.
I have had insurance companies require repairs. Had a house I sold on a land contract that the owner could not afford to do the repairs on so we put a Loyds of London policy on it until he made the repairs. It is the insurance company prerogative to assess their risk. I make sure my lobby doors lock also. It drives me crazy when I find the tenants leaving them open. It's a safety risk. You either move the mailboxes outside or give the mail person a key. Vines in the house compromise the frame by separating the siding which lets moisture in. That is a rental inspection violation too. Just fix them and move on.
Thanks, but the configuration of unlocked outer door and mailboxes + intercoms in the foyer of a multi is extremely common here. And the buildings are brick not frame.
Our insurer for an urban, commercial multifamily inspected our property and sent a cancellation notice pending correction of a laundry list of BS, including a sidewalk with a 1" max lip and Virginia Creeper on the side of the building and unconnected garage. WTF? Our sidewalk is in great shape compared to many in the area. Another ridiculous one was demanding that I repair the outer front door so it locks when it's never been locked in 25 years and locking it would prevent access to the mailboxes and intercom that are before the actual locked door for visitors postal workers and deliveries. We're looking for a new insurer, but I was wondering if anyone else had dealt with nonsense like this?
After reading your title I was going to suggest buying round up, but after reading the other parts I see that you might need more than round up. 馃槩 Depending on your other quotes you might have to end up Needing to pacify the insurance carrier even if you do not agree.
It is common for insurance companies to inspect the properties that they insure. Some are way more aggressive than others when it comes to these inspections and their recommendations or requirements. Most of these carriers provide recommended maintenance and required maintenance. Recommended you have the option to address the area of concern or not. Required maintenance means you must address the area of concern within a certain timeframe or coverage "may" be canceled. The required maintenance typically must be well documented (receipts & pictures), and then usually the carrier has an inspector come back out, review the areas of concern, and confirm that all work has been done. They sign off on everything you've done, and you continue on down the road with that carrier. If the carrier you're referring to hasn't given you this option, then that would be strange to say the least as most are willing to try and work things out with their client. If you haven't called the carrier/inspector about this, then I'd suggest that if you like this carrier. If not, then it may be time to find another carrier.
As I'm sure you're aware, every carrier is different from the next. There are some carriers who want your business today, but 3 or 4 years down the road it almost seems as if they're looing for a way to get off your account (with or without any claims issues). Some carriers are known for getting in certain markets, holding those accounts for a certain period of time, and then pulling back from writing anything in that industry for the next few years. Almost like a cycle they go through. Most of the time this is because they've changed their underwriting guidelines or taste for a particular type of exposure. While I don't believe carriers look to dump your account, I do believe that they can make it really hard for you to stick around. That's likely what's happening here to you, or they have a legitimate concern with these exposures due to losses they've paid out in your area over the past few years.
The good new is that there are many carriers/agents that would love to quote/earn your business and keep it for years to come. Good luck. Hope this helps.
@Johann Jells I'd add that these recommendations are fairly common. The exception is locking the door to the vestibule. This could probably be explained away with some good communication from your agent to the underwriter.
Another thing to be aware of, the insurance marketplace is losing money on apartment complexes. One way they try to reverse this trend is to tighten up on the underwriting guidelines.
It is common for insurance companies to inspect the properties that they insure. Some are way more aggressive than others when it comes to these inspections and their recommendations or requirements. Most of these carriers provide recommended maintenance and required maintenance. Recommended you have the option to address the area of concern or not. Required maintenance means you must address the area of concern within a certain timeframe or coverage "may" be canceled. The required maintenance typically must be well documented (receipts & pictures), and then usually the carrier has an inspector come back out, review the areas of concern, and confirm that all work has been done. They sign off on everything you've done, and you continue on down the road with that carrier. If the carrier you're referring to hasn't given you this option, then that would be strange to say the least as most are willing to try and work things out with their client. If you haven't called the carrier/inspector about this, then I'd suggest that if you like this carrier. If not, then it may be time to find another carrier.
As I'm sure you're aware, every carrier is different from the next. There are some carriers who want your business today, but 3 or 4 years down the road it almost seems as if they're looing for a way to get off your account (with or without any claims issues). Some carriers are known for getting in certain markets, holding those accounts for a certain period of time, and then pulling back from writing anything in that industry for the next few years. Almost like a cycle they go through. Most of the time this is because they've changed their underwriting guidelines or taste for a particular type of exposure. While I don't believe carriers look to dump your account, I do believe that they can make it really hard for you to stick around. That's likely what's happening here to you, or they have a legitimate concern with these exposures due to losses they've paid out in your area over the past few years.
The good new is that there are many carriers/agents that would love to quote/earn your business and keep it for years to come. Good luck. Hope this helps.
Thanks. A broker acquaintance who is looking for a new carrier for us said sometimes they do this on a property that they are undermarket for rather than simply raise the premiums. Seems bizarre. I'm DIYing most of the repairs, which of course being a commercial property is a no-no. Presumably a new inspector will just take it all at face value.
I've had commercial insurer's do this before. I just found a new one and didn't renew.
The brokers were like wait, what? I repeated myself slower. Buh-bye.
Hi Johann,
I doubt you can (for lack of a better term) "Fight City Hall" on this one.
If they cancel you, and you have a mortgage, they will Notice the lender you are no longer covered, which will probably trigger some "unpleasantness" for you.
And seriously, have you not walked your own property and noticed the cement sidewalk heaving up (if that is what the 1" lip is) (???)
If the sidewalk is heaving up, sometimes (but not always) grinding can remedy those tripping hazards quickly.
Good Luck!
@Johann Jells yes insurance companies do this and give you a laundry list to deal with. They especially want you to fix concrete issues. Don't be surprized if another carrier has a similar opinion on the concrete. The rest may vary. Ivy can degrade the mortar on older buildings. They may be unable to see the brickface therefor citing the ivy.