Rookie mistakes I'm making and a tenant with tumors

Rookie mistakes I'm making and a tenant with tumors

Cory J ThorntonBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2021 · 240 posts · 281 votes

Hey BP family - 

I am very new to RE Investing. I decided to make RE Investment a focus a year ago, and as of four weeks ago, my wife and I have picked up five properties. Below I tried to give a brief overview of my current learning curve situation, as well as my game plan. 

How can I improve my approach? Please don't hold back. I prefer candor and will embrace any feedback I am given. 

Scenario:  

I recently closed on a property and inherited a tenant. The property was rented (no previous lease and no security deposit transferred) for $600 a month. Market rent, with minor cosmetic improvement would be $1400. I have no interest in displacing the current tenant to get full market value rent, but I need to get the rent increased to a minimum of $850. 

The day I bought the property, I called the tenant to notify them of a change in ownership. We discussed that we needed to meet, talk about a rent increase, and hopefully sign a new lease. I told them that while we needed to meet right away, I was going to give them until the first of the year to start paying any new rent rate. I told them that I didn't want to come in and impose an increase ... I wanted to have them tell me about the property and any improvements they would like to see and then hopefully arrive at a new rent that worked for everyone. I did make it clear that even without improvements, the rent had to increase. 

That conversation was four weeks ago, and they have been avoiding me ever since. When I do get them on the phone, there is always a story for why they didn't call me back sooner. Today I was able to get the tenant on the phone and was hoping to set up a time to discuss the rental increase and sign a lease. The tenant informed me that they could not meet until they got results back from their doctor and that they had some tumors in their liver. They promised to call me by Sunday to set up a meeting for Monday or Tuesday. So far the tenant has canceled two different meetings and has yet to take the initiative to reschedule. An additional piece of history, this tenant gave my appraiser the run around for two weeks and nearly delayed things enough to cause me to miss a closing. 

While I don't have a reason to doubt what the tenant is telling me about their medical condition, getting the run around for four weeks doesn't breed confidence. 

Pending Solution: 

1) given that I have a sense that this tenant isn't going to be forthcoming, I am going to retract my initial offer to make the rental increase a discussion. 

2) I am going to set rent at a rate that establishes cashflow, but doesn't go anywhere near market rates. My current thought is to go from $600 to $900 and set that expectation for annual increases at 3-5%. 

3) I am planning to tell the tenant that given the medical concern they shared with me, I will give them an additional two months to see if they can come up with the extra $300 a month. The only way I allow them to continue to live in the house at all is to sign an agreement where they acknowledge by the end of the additional two months, they will either start paying the new rental rate or they need to be out of the house. 

4) Since I don't have a security deposit, and I want to skew to the side of taking care of the person, I plan to tell them that if they decide they need to move on and leave the home in good condition, I will refund their last two months of rent to them in full. 

Sorry that the post ran a little long ... thanks for giving it a read and thank you in advance for any insights you are able to share. 

Kind Regards - 

Cory 

1Reply
82 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y

CALL A PROPERTY MANAGER TOMORROW!

you are not ready to be a landlord. They PM will pay for themselves in reduced heartache and stress on you while increasing rent to what it should be will more than cover their fees.

Do I think the stories will continue for months and months? Yes I do.

Do I think they will ever pay the higher rent? No I do not.

Do I think you’ll be surprised by the amount of damage you find after bending over backwards for this tenant? Yes I do. 

If you feel bad for them. Send them $400/mo in cash for the rest of your life after you evict them.  You’ll still be better off than you are or will be after your half hearted attempt at fixing this problem. (You’re giving them $800/mo now and trying to reduce it to $650/mo)

The PM will ensure proper notices are given and no housing violations occur. Do this tomorrow. Don’t wait to be “surprised” when you’re city suddenly introduces a 3% rent increase cap and suddenly the max you can charge only goes up $18/mo every year. 

See this reply in the discussion

20 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    4y

    CALL A PROPERTY MANAGER TOMORROW!

    you are not ready to be a landlord. They PM will pay for themselves in reduced heartache and stress on you while increasing rent to what it should be will more than cover their fees.

    Do I think the stories will continue for months and months? Yes I do.

    Do I think they will ever pay the higher rent? No I do not.

    Do I think you’ll be surprised by the amount of damage you find after bending over backwards for this tenant? Yes I do. 

    If you feel bad for them. Send them $400/mo in cash for the rest of your life after you evict them.  You’ll still be better off than you are or will be after your half hearted attempt at fixing this problem. (You’re giving them $800/mo now and trying to reduce it to $650/mo)

    The PM will ensure proper notices are given and no housing violations occur. Do this tomorrow. Don’t wait to be “surprised” when you’re city suddenly introduces a 3% rent increase cap and suddenly the max you can charge only goes up $18/mo every year. 

  • Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y



    No need to meet 

    Start eviction tomorrow via real estate attorney 

    In the future with an inherited tenant simply send a registered letter informing the new rent amount.  Give 60 days notice 


    you are being played and your solution is not good at all 

  • Kim Meredith HamptonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Cory J Thornton I know your heart is in the right place, but now more than ever, tenants are taking advantage of the rentals big time!!! You either need to toughen up, treat this like a business and/or hire a professional property manager. 

    The rents need to brought up to market now. You will kick yourself for not doing this. 

    Learn what type of notices are required per your states statutes and either give them notice to vacate or pay market rent. 


    Im assuming you saw the interior of this unit and saw a rental ledger to see if they have paid on time and take good care of the property??? This will tell you your next step, give the proper notice to vacate, or offer them the new lease at market rate. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2016 · 37 posts · 34 votes
    4y

    Don’t negotiate with terrorists. They are playing games with you, sick or not. You are going to lose this game. This will not get better.

    Raise the rent to what is needed. Hire a property manager if you don’t personally want to do this. Offer them cash for keys if they can’t/won’t pay. Hire a real estate attorney to start the eviction process if they don’t pay. 

  • Luke AndersonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Enterprise, AL · Member since 2016 · 166 posts · 117 votes
    4y

    This is a common tactic. Unfortunately for you and most new landlords (myself included), tenants will play to your emotional side, and being a nice person you want to work with them. I have been sucked into the same position in the past and paid dearly for it. Either get a new lease signed immediately, or start the eviction process. Those are the only two options you should consider, unless you can convince yourself to accept the low rent. 
    Getting a property manager will also take care of this situation for you. You need processes in place and a PM has those processes already. They are professionals at dealing with the stallers and getting you what you deserve. This is a business, and you just treat it at such. No one likes to be the bad guy or feel like the bad guy, but you’re not and you shouldn’t. You have to run your real estate business in a way that makes sense for you. 

  • Cory J ThorntonBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2021 · 240 posts · 281 votes
    4y

    I am soaking up all the feedback. 

    @Bill B., @Michael Plante, @Kim Meredith Hampton, @Chris Prichard, @Luke Anderson, thank you all! 

    I agree that the easiest thing to do is to turn this over to a tenured property manager with established/proven processes in place. That said, I want to learn to manage and invest effectively, so I am planning to take the advice given, and meet this scenario head on. 

    I am taking all the advice and compiling it into actionable steps (my process 1.0). 

    Thank you for sharing your insights, experiences, and investing your time to help me improve! I'll be sure to post an after actions/post mortem so you can see how things play out.  

    Thanks again - 

    Cory  

  • Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    You have received excellent feedback.  The longer you're in the rental game the more hardened one can become regarding these stories that tenants (and applicants) can provide.  Often it's only after one has been, well......let's just say no after-glow here....that one becomes cynical regarding some of these stories.

    At this point you should be considering displacing this tenant for one who pays market rent.  Since this person has a tenancy at will (i.e., a month to month lease) do a little research to determine the method and amount of notice required in your state to terminate this type of lease.  This is often easier than going the eviction route (although that would need to be considered should the tenant not vacate after the termination date and is now a "holdover" tenant.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    4y

    Tell them if they are unable to meet, you will send them a letter.  They may or may not have health issues, but if this is a repeated pattern, I'd think the latter.  If you don't hear from them by Monday or Tuesday, send a letter with the increases.  

    Keep to you original timeline (check local laws to see how much notice is required for increased rent and if there is a cap).  If the place could rent for $1400 a month and they are paying $600-rip the band aid off and increase it to $1000 starting Jan 1.  Tell them if they can't pay, they need to move out.  Tell them what market rent is (they probably know).  Then increase it to market rent the following year.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    You got the advice.....so don't be a nice guy and don't overthink this. Hire a PM and stop trying to manage yourself, it doesn't seem you are ready for this. Like someone said, if you want to give $800 a month to charity, go ahead and do it....but maybe donate to Wounded Warriors or something else deserving.....

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    first before you do anything learn your local tenant landlord laws..  you must know the rules to play this game. 
    Second, I would not really give a tenant that kind of involvement. I would just give them notice of rent increase at x time. Be sure you are giving the the required notice time - where I live that is 90 days. 

    Third:  contact your local rental owners association and sign up for any and all classes they offer. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    As for the amount of rent increases - everyone loves to pound on  the "this isnt a charity"  thing, no, but it is a weighing of options....  if you want to take the rent up to what you think the market rate is - how much will this cost you and how long will it take? This costs money....  and it is winter.....  and subs are booking 90 days out.....  so keep this all in mind...  (do you have a relationship with a contractor? do you know materials are in short supply?? this all matters...... and should be part of your calculations....

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    sorry for the multiple posts - you must know what your notice laws are - you cant "just tell" the tenant about an increase and have it be legal....  you need to give proper notice - which usually means posting notice or mailing the required forms in the required time frame. (see learn your local law!) 

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    4y

    I would send them a letter stating effective January 1, that their rent is $850 per month. I would NOT sign a lease that has a term other than month to month. Even if they refuse to sign a lease, you can still push the rent increase. It is actually good if they move on their own given how much below market rent they are. Story hounding them. Just send an email, physical mail and text relaying the new rate effective January 1. If you really want them to sign a lease, offer a discount for lease signing. Tell them the new rent is $900 if they fail to sign a lease by November 30th. It is $850 if they sign the new lease. When you are trying to incentivize action, you need to give choices or have consequences. Another option is telling them they need to sign the lease or move out by the end of December. 

    Trust me after 15 years of dealing with tenants, this is the best approach. Don't be rude, just lay out the situation professionally. Sign the lease or don't, it is their choice.

  • Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Assuming you have the funds set aside to do a tenant turn (if need be) and or holding costs/eviction costs if you need to go down that road you should simply send a notice (letter) that says what the rent is, when and include a copy of a month to month lease.  If it isn't signed and returned by X date you will send them a 30 day notice.  Then follow up and do just that.  If nothing after the 30 day notice expires and they are still there start eviction.  I would see what your local laws allow before doing any of this.  

    If you can't afford a turn/holding costs/eviction at this time then you need to be a bit more careful with your approach.  You can start of strong and you should, but leave yourself wiggle room and understand that you may need to settle for now and come back in 6 months when you have more funds built up.  

    Remember, in the end this isn't about the tenant, it is about you.  What can you do?  What can you afford to do?  Think through the option to the worst end and make sure you can handle that before you go down that road.  Then expect the best and see how it goes.  

    Or you can simply hire a manager.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    I'll give you candor. The fact that you're on these forums looking for help tells me you're not hopeless. However, based on what you wrote, I have serious doubt that you will succeed in this business. Bluntly, every single thing you've suggested is horrifyingly wrong. I want to reach through this screen and choke the living s**t out of you level wrong! 

    Before you do anything, learn the law. You don't say where you are. Is there rent control? Automatic lease renewal? Minimum non-renewal notice requirements? Mandatory relocation fees? Moratorium issues? Tenant or landlord friendly? What does the eviction timeline look like - tenant out in 2 weeks or 18 months? 

    You are the investor. You put up your hard earned money to buy the place. You don't need to get the rent up to 60% of market. You need to get it up a minimum of 90% of market and that is for a good tenant. If the tenant is not good (and this one isn't), get rid of them and get a tenant in there at 100% market rent. FYI, now is probably the best time to get rid of this tenant and fix up the place so you can get market rent. The longer you wait, the more money you lose. If you have a problem charging market rent, ask your wife if she is OK working an additional 5 years before she can retire so that you can charge your tenant well under market rent. 

    The tenant has been avoiding you because you allow them to avoid you. You're the landlord. You're in control. Don't ever forget that. Put a note on their door. "Sorry we couldn't meet up to discuss you're continued renting of my unit. Therefore, here is your non-renewal. Be out by this date." And don't even think of refunding any money when they leave. They have an obligation to keep the place in good condition. If they fail, you sue them. That's the carrot and stick approach to keeping your place nice. You've got some sort of weird carrot and bunch of carrots approach. 

    Don't tell them that they have more time due to their medical condition. It's probably BS, but even if it is not, you don't want to start treating people differently because of their medical condition. Treat everyone the same and that way you can't be accused of discriminating against anyone. 

    You want to take care of this person? I must have missed the part where the tenant gave a s**t about you. Was it buried in the part of them avoiding you, not returning calls, canceling meetings, and giving the appraiser trouble, all to their benefit and your detriment? 

    This is a business. Start treating it like a business or you will fail. You are the landlord, they are the tenant. Your job is to supply a safe place to live and address any legitimate problems/issue that arise. Their job is to follow the rules of the lease and make you money. Simple as that!

    I know this will sound harsh, but you asked for it. Get a spine or get a property manager. Anything else and you will be crushed in this business. You don't have to be heartless, but you can't be spineless.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    @Greg M. absolutely nailed it!

  • Rental Property Investor · Zanesville, OH · Member since 2020 · 70 posts · 78 votes
    4y

    @Cory J Thornton

    With no agreement in place, serve notice that you are no longer renting to them and if needed evict. Make the unit fresh---but not above average for the area and start fresh with a screened tenant. Lot less stress and run-around this way and greater returns.

    Or

  • Ryan KellyBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    @Cory J Thornton Hire a property manager and take notes. Keep them in place on this one, and if you want to self-manage in the future, you’ll learn how they do it. Don’t try to learn on your own.

    Ryan Kelly Group - Keller Williams5110 Reviews
  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    again, I love all these "ram it thru and F the tenant" rhetoric.....  this is BS and not how to run a business.  LEARN YOUR LOCAL LAWS....  In many places you cant just decide to evict for no reason and if you do you will owe the tenant relocation costs.  

    The absolute best things any business owner can do (and if you own RE you are a business owner) is learn how to manage people.  Buy the book "how to win friends and influence people" https://www.amazon.com/How-Win...    This book alone will change how you do business...  and even better it will pay for itself over and over and over.....  its a classic and there are others that build on it.   There generally is a win/win for most situations.....  

    Anyway, I just wish there were less of the "ram it thru" folks here and more of the "lets find the best way forward that benefits all" folks.....  


  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    Anyway, I just wish there were less of the "ram it thru" folks here and more of the "lets find the best way forward that benefits all" folks.....  


    No one suggesting the eviction process is 'ramming it through' or suggesting that the OP violate the state laws. They are simply suggesting that they either start to pay up, get a plan to do so, or legally start the eviction process.

    The "lets find the best way forward that benefits all" angle only works if both parties are interested in doing so. Usually a non-paying tenant is not.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.