Oh boy, shady tenant???

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Oh boy, shady tenant???

Nadir M.
Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes

Here is the issue, 


Picked a tenant to move in over the weekend. She was very desperate to move in because her previous residence had some sewer issues and had to live with her son in law. Tenant also said she has some relatives coming into town so she wanted to move in soon so it doesn’t get too crowded at her son in laws. Long story short, she moved in. She transferred utilities in her name, she has yet to give me renters insurance even though she said she applied, and She made the deposit and prorated rent payments. So I decided to give her keys. Once she moved in, I’m still attempting to collect renters insurance. All of the sudden, apartments.com (not sure if I recommend this site) said tenant has insufficient funds. I called the tenant and she said she called apartments.com and changed her account to a bank that the site approves. I called apartments.com to verify as the operator said that she did change bank account to an authorized bank accepted by apartments.com. The operator still said that the account still has insufficient funds. Tenant said that she has plenty of money in the account. Also the July 1st payment is still in old unauthorized bank account. So basically this tenant will be late prorated rent, deposit, and first months rent.  She grabbed the keys couple days ago. I wish apartments.com would have said that tenant had insufficient funds from the beginning and not 72 hours later. So what do I do now? Tenant is in process of moving in but is there anyway to reverse the move in process or halt so I can chose a new tenant? The lease has already been signed. Background check is clear for all adults. Credit score for both adults above 685. Where did I go wrong? Did I go wrong? What do I do now? Is this tenant truly trying to do right? 

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Donna M.
Member since 2020 · 81 posts · 73 votes
4y

Could you stop collecting through apartments.com.  Have her give you a check for all money due and for all future rent payments since she says she has plenty of money in the account.

I have found that "rushed" people looking to move in ASAP are problematic.

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  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    @Nadir M. I have a VERY detailed online application which includes uploads of driver's license or state id and paycheck stubs. It is FREE to fill out. I will not even get up off my couch to show an apartment unless it is *COMPLETELY* filled out. This is part of my screening. Can the applicant follow instructions in the ad and provide detailed information required in a timely manner.? I believe that this is probably one of my most important screening tools.

    Also, pre-move in funds should only be accepted in actual cash or a cashiers check from my bank. If you live out of town, have them overnight you a cashiers check on a national bank that you deal with and required pre-move in docs such as renter's insurance. NEVER, EVER execute a lease until you have greenbacks in your hot little hand. Even if a tenant has signed, if you haven't signed, the lease is not executed. No keys to tenants until lease is fully executed.

    3Reply
  • Patricia Steiner
    Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    STOP.  Just stop.  You don't move a tenant in until EVERYTHING is done - all money is collected and proof of renter's insurance.  Let her know that she cannot move in as the conditions have not been met. 

    And, when I reference STOP,  I mean STOP YOU TOO.  You're running a business so run it like a business.  No tickee, no laundry. Don't allow sad stories and promises to take you down that road to bad decisions - which come with drama - and drama costs money.  

    You called her shady but the truth is she was effective.  Again, run your business.  She ran you this time...let it be her failure to execute.  

    4Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jeyo Punnakottil:

    @Nadir M. Ask her to give you a Cashiers check for all pre move in money( security deposit,Pet fee,1st month rent etc) .If she is legit she will get a cashiers check to you.Otherwise she will find excuses and say she needs to sort it with apartments.com

    If she already moved in and signed the lease ,depending on the state your only option is eviction.

    She wants to meet with me and give all that you mentioned. Recommend anything other site other than apartments.com? Kinda of miss cozy.co
    0Reply
  • Matt Bishop
    Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2020 · 161 posts · 88 votes
    4y

    @Nadir M., only accept a direct bank wire to your dedicated rental property bank account, not, checks, zelle or any other intermediary for all recipients from the tenants. Wire transfers are not subject to NSF or retraction. If you want to protect your account numbers, set up one bank account solely for rent deposit and each month, transfer the balance to your operating account.

    About midnight on each last day of the months, I get multiple text messages from my bank notifying me of receipt of wire transfers from my tenants. Bank of America does not charge me for this service.

    2Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jeyo Punnakottil:

    @Nadir M. NEVER NEVER NEVER USE A THIRD PART SERVICER TO COLLECT SECURITY DEPOSIT AND 1ST MONTHS RENT BEFORE MOVE IN.I always use Cashiers check or money order for the security deposit,pet deposit and 1st months rent NO EXCUSE,Period.If tenant cannot do that well i am moving away.Until the security deposit clears in my bank account i donot hand over the keys how frustrated the tenant is.Another key thing ,the more pushy the tenant is in getting the place the more shady the tenant is and i will always double think @ that point.


     Yes lesson learned. I’ve always done it this way and never had any issues but this will be the last time I have this issue. Thanks for your input. 

    0Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Matt Bishop:

    @Nadir M., only accept a direct bank wire to your dedicated rental property bank account, not, checks, zelle or any other intermediary for all recipients from the tenants. Wire transfers are not subject to NSF or retraction. If you want to protect your account numbers, set up one bank account solely for rent deposit and each month, transfer the balance to your operating account.

    About midnight on each last day of the months, I get multiple text messages from my bank notifying me of receipt of wire transfers from my tenants. Bank of America does not charge me for this service.


     This is great because my wife banks with Bank of America 

    0Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    @Matt Bishop  I don't know what kind of account you have at bank of america but those I believe would be ACH transfers. Wire transfers are charged on my account at Bank of America.  I know because I had to teach one of my tenants the difference between sending a wire transfer and ACH at the time wire transfer was a $30 charge.    

    @Nadir M. my application includes the bank they use.  Typically I can tell them what ACH  zelle, popmoney they can use to transfer funds based on what their bank uses. I know some people favor something like cozy but I try to make it as easy as possible for people to pay me (short of venmo which I won't use).  

    2Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Colleen F.:

    @Matt Bishop  I don't know what kind of account you have at bank of america but those I believe would be ACH transfers. Wire transfers are charged on my account at Bank of America.  I know because I had to teach one of my tenants the difference between sending a wire transfer and ACH at the time wire transfer was a $30 charge.    

    @Nadir M. my application includes the bank they use.  Typically I can tell them what ACH  zelle, popmoney they can use to transfer funds based on what their bank uses. I know some people favor something like cozy but I try to make it as easy as possible for people to pay me (short of venmo which I won't use).  


    I’ve never had any issues with apartments until this tenant. My bank charges $15 for a wire. At this point they should get charged the $15 and put this behind us  

    0Reply
  • Jeyo PunnakottilPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 48 votes
    4y

    @Nadir M. She can do a wire transfer to your bank.Thats the last ting i will do to help her out.Give your bank details ask gor a wire for the PRE MOVE IN MONEY.Depending on the state you live in you may need to collect security deposit and 1st months rent separately.Not as a lumsum.Check your states rules

    2Reply
  • Jeyo PunnakottilPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 48 votes
    4y

    @Jeyo Punnakottil i ment to say your rental ppty bank account .Donot give your personal bank account as that will be commingling of money

    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    @Nadir M.  zelle popmoney is no charge for me to receive an ACH transfer same as apartments and usually quick but to each their own but thats long term. I had no idea apartments.com only accepted certain banks.  

    For your immediate problem I agree with you I would have her do the more expensive wire and pay the fee or cashiers check.

    1Reply
  • Elenis Camargo
    Property Manager · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2018 · 514 posts · 470 votes
    4y

    @Nadir M. Unfortunately it’s a learning lesson and you’ll never make this mistake again. Never let a tenant move in by paying online. Most processors take 1-3 business days to pull funds out of an account so you won’t know for a while if they had the money to begin with. Always ask for security deposit and a full month’s rent in a cashier check or money order. No exceptions! We made plenty of mistakes when we were first learning and self managing but we have learned many hard lessons. Professionally managing is much different. When I started self managing I thought paying a property manager was a waste of money but after all I’ve seen professionally managing the last few years, a property manager is 100% worth the money.

    Depending on your state and laws, if she doesn’t come up with the cashiers check in the next 24 hours I’d post a notice and be super firm with eviction proceedings. Giving any flexibility here will just be a waste of time and money. Hire a lawyer for the eviction. The slightest mistake doing it yourself could cost you to lose and it isn’t worth it in my opinion.

    Best of luck!!!

    1Reply
  • Lori Goldsmith
    Realtor · Beverly Hills, CA · Member since 2022 · 31 posts · 24 votes
    4y

    There is a reason they call it a Security Deposit.

    My Brokerage has a strict Cashiers checks ALWAYS rule with security deposit(s) and first months rent. Ask them kindly to stop the move-in process until you have a cashiers check.

    If they make over 100K, they have the funds and can easily provide you with the cashiers check by tomorrow. 

    Bummer we are going into a Holiday weekend where some banks are not only closed Monday July 4th but some branches are already closed on Saturdays. 

    I'll be thinking good thoughts for you, that this all gets worked out by tomorrow.

    1Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Lori Goldsmith:

    There is a reason they call it a Security Deposit.

    My Brokerage has a strict Cashiers checks ALWAYS rule with security deposit(s) and first months rent. Ask them kindly to stop the move-in process until you have a cashiers check.

    If they make over 100K, they have the funds and can easily provide you with the cashiers check by tomorrow. 

    Bummer we are going into a Holiday weekend where some banks are not only closed Monday July 4th but some branches are already closed on Saturdays. 

    I'll be thinking good thoughts for you, that this all gets worked out by tomorrow.


    Thank you so much. The thing is, first months rent is due tomorrow on top of prorated rent that she’s behind on, and deposit. I’m heading down there for the holidays anyway so I’ll get this figured out. She did say she wants to process a cashiers check but there is an excuse to everything.  

    1Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    @Nadir M. I stopped reading at “was very desperate to move in”. That’s always a hard pass for me. Responsible tenants plan their move beforehand.

    5Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    Everyone has said it but I will repeat it. No keys without Cashiers check for full deposit, full months rent. In my California property that I self manage the only difficult tenants I have had are those that asked to pay deposit in installments. It was a December vacancy and there were no other applications. They were always late on rent, caused damage and broke lease early. Since then I refuse to rent to marginal tenants. Id rather keep it vacant and get the right tenant.

    3Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Everyone has given you very sound advice here.  As you have learned, you need to tighten up your processes ASAP.  Meantime, mitigate the damage that has been done.

    I am reading you are going there to get a cashier's check from her.  Conveniently, it's a long holiday weekend so you will not actually know if that check is good until Tuesday at the very earliest.

    I know this will be inconvenient for both you and tenant, but I would change the locks (if she has not already taken possession) and HOLD any move-in until those funds are guaranteed.  That means, WALK THE CASHIERS CHECK IN TO THE BANK FROM WHICH IT WAS ISSUED AND GET CASH.  If you deposit the "cashier's check" into your account and it turns out to be fake, you may not know for weeks and will have lost more time and money.  If the cashier's check is legit, she would have had to get it from a local branch near your property, so get your antennae up and BS detector if it's from "out of town."

    Do not compound your problems here by "hoping for the best" and getting a piece of paper from her this weekend and assuming all is well.  She has already failed to follow through with several onboarding tasks you have asked of her.  This is the time where tenants are on their best behavior, so you are seeing that now.  She is either incompetent or a crook.  Do not delay finding out the answer to this question by treading lightly this weekend.  Stick to your processes.  Do not make exceptions because of her in-person presentation.  I now we all fancy ourselves to have positive personal relationships with our tenants, but when it comes down it this is still a business.

    Good Luck!

    2Reply
  • Billy Smith
    Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 716 posts · 313 votes
    4y

    So, you did do a back ground check where they check her credit and prove she makes the amount of money they claim? The number 1 on this list call the person /company they lived at last check for late payments etc.…Sounds like you need to go ahead with eviction chalk this up as a lesson unfortunately they cost money in this business we all have made them.

    1Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Wesley W.:

    Everyone has given you very sound advice here.  As you have learned, you need to tighten up your processes ASAP.  Meantime, mitigate the damage that has been done.

    I am reading you are going there to get a cashier's check from her.  Conveniently, it's a long holiday weekend so you will not actually know if that check is good until Tuesday at the very earliest.

    I know this will be inconvenient for both you and tenant, but I would change the locks (if she has not already taken possession) and HOLD any move-in until those funds are guaranteed.  That means, WALK THE CASHIERS CHECK IN TO THE BANK FROM WHICH IT WAS ISSUED AND GET CASH.  If you deposit the "cashier's check" into your account and it turns out to be fake, you may not know for weeks and will have lost more time and money.  If the cashier's check is legit, she would have had to get it from a local branch near your property, so get your antennae up and BS detector if it's from "out of town."

    Do not compound your problems here by "hoping for the best" and getting a piece of paper from her this weekend and assuming all is well.  She has already failed to follow through with several onboarding tasks you have asked of her.  This is the time where tenants are on their best behavior, so you are seeing that now.  She is either incompetent or a crook.  Do not delay finding out the answer to this question by treading lightly this weekend.  Stick to your processes.  Do not make exceptions because of her in-person presentation.  I now we all fancy ourselves to have positive personal relationships with our tenants, but when it comes down it this is still a business.

    Good Luck!


     Again not to sound naive but she is very incompetent. I have verified everything she’s been saying and it’s all legit. The time and hours she spent with apartments to get her payment setup was truthful. I’m having my dad meet her today at 10 am to collect a cashiers check. I’m also going to be calling a lawyer to go through eviction process if check is fake at all. My dad will be able to deposit check so should know if it’s legit. 

    1Reply
  • Jordan MoorheadBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Nadir M. never let them move in until the money hits your account in the future. I would talk to a local attorney here to seek help.

    [email protected]512-888-9122
    The Moorhead Team5140 Reviews
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    1Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jordan Moorhead:

    @Nadir M. never let them move in until the money hits your account in the future. I would talk to a local attorney here to seek help.


     Already left an attorney a message. Good learning lesson. Live and learn 

    1Reply
  • Lori Goldsmith
    Realtor · Beverly Hills, CA · Member since 2022 · 31 posts · 24 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Nadir M.:
    Quote from @Lori Goldsmith:

    There is a reason they call it a Security Deposit.

    My Brokerage has a strict Cashiers checks ALWAYS rule with security deposit(s) and first months rent. Ask them kindly to stop the move-in process until you have a cashiers check.

    If they make over 100K, they have the funds and can easily provide you with the cashiers check by tomorrow. 

    Bummer we are going into a Holiday weekend where some banks are not only closed Monday July 4th but some branches are already closed on Saturdays. 

    I'll be thinking good thoughts for you, that this all gets worked out by tomorrow.


    Thank you so much. The thing is, first months rent is due tomorrow on top of prorated rent that she’s behind on, and deposit. I’m heading down there for the holidays anyway so I’ll get this figured out. She did say she wants to process a cashiers check but there is an excuse to everything.  


    In my practice, I do it a bit differently. . . I would collect 2 months security, the 1st months rent and the prorated ALL together, upfront before the tenant takes possession of the keys to the property. It doesn't matter who I am representing in the deal and all payments at beginning are cashiers check. Then the parties can arrange wire monthly or check. To me, it's not much different then a closed escrow. Key's aren't handed over until the terms are negotiated, signed off and money is in. 

    1Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y

    Unfortunately will have to start eviction now. Need to either hire a layer or go solo. I live out of state so I’m sure I’ll have to be present to court meeting. 

    0Reply
  • Rob Pollock
    Accountant · MI · Member since 2018 · 18 posts · 13 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Nadir M.:

    Unfortunately will have to start eviction now. Need to either hire a layer or go solo. I live out of state so I’m sure I’ll have to be present to court meeting. 

    Why the eviction now? Bad check, no show to meet your dad?
    0Reply
  • Nadir M.
    OP
    Property Manager · Westminster, CO · Member since 2018 · 486 posts · 110 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Rob Pollock:
    Quote from @Nadir M.:

    Unfortunately will have to start eviction now. Need to either hire a layer or go solo. I live out of state so I’m sure I’ll have to be present to court meeting. 

    Why the eviction now? Bad check, no show to meet your dad?

     You won’t believe what happened. So she never met my dad. I get a text from random number saying that’s it’s her brother texting me and that I’m part of a hoax and he wants to check to see if I am really the property owner. One top of that, he also said that they waited for two hours to meet my dad and that they couldn’t get a hold of me. He wants to send me to the authorities if he finds out that I am fraud and trying to take advantage of tenant. Also, I was told that tenants son already paid me over the app. If that’s the case, why are you agreeing to meet with my dad before asking to verify that I received payment froM her son?   I promise you, you couldn’t make this up. 

    0Reply
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