Tenant paying late, but not later than 5 days

Tenant paying late, but not later than 5 days

Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 5 votes

Hi fellow landlords,

Today I had a situation with one of my tenants in NC. This tenant has been paying rent always on the 5th, although the lease agreement says the rent should be paid on the 1st of every month. She pays on the 5th because on the 6th there will be a late fee. I would not have a problem with it, if she would have explained to me any difficulties she has in advance. But no, it looks like to me that she pays late on purpose and with no good reason. What disturbs me is her attitude. She was yelling at me over the phone and insisted that paying on the 5th is not considered paying late. She literally told me that I will get my rent on the 5th, that's it.  What is even more disturbing and ridiculous is when she needed AC maintenance, I had it fixed on the same freaking day as she submitted the request. But madam was angry at me for not having done it faster. That's why yesterday, I sent her a PAY OR QUIT NOTICE after she was late again. Since she has such a high expectation on the maintenance, I would also demand on-time payments.  Has anybody had similar issues with their tenants? Can I evict her if she continues doing this? I mean is 4/5 days late a good enough reason to evict her? Thank you in advance for any feedbacks! 

P.S. she has eviction history and a bad credit score. But I still took her because she appeared so nice during application, and was so desperate looking for a place to rent, and promised that the eviction was due to her pregnancy which was six years ago and she had paid off everything. Now I regret being too emotional and naïve. 

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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
4y

Maybe the landlord business isn't for you. Nearly every tenant in America pays on the 5th if there's a late fee on the 6th. Lol

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @J. Wang:

    Hi fellow landlords,

    Today I had a situation with one of my tenants in NC. This tenant has been paying rent always on the 5th, although the lease agreement says the rent should be paid on the 1st of every month. She pays on the 5th because on the 6th there will be a late fee. I would not have a problem with it, if she would have explained to me any difficulties she has in advance. But no, it looks like to me that she pays late on purpose and with no good reason. What disturbs me is her attitude. She was yelling at me over the phone and insisted that paying on the 5th is not considered paying late. She literally told me that I will get my rent on the 5th, that's it.  What is even more disturbing and ridiculous is when she needed AC maintenance, I had it fixed on the same freaking day as she submitted the request. But madam was angry at me for not having done it faster. That's why yesterday, I sent her a PAY OR QUIT NOTICE after she was late again. Since she has such a high expectation on the maintenance, I would also demand on-time payments.  Has anybody had similar issues with their tenants? Can I evict her if she continues doing this? I mean is 4/5 days late a good enough reason to evict her? Thank you in advance for any feedbacks! 

    P.S. she has eviction history and a bad credit score. But I still took her because she appeared so nice during application, and was so desperate looking for a place to rent, and promised that the eviction was due to her pregnancy which was six years ago and she had paid off everything. Now I regret being too emotional and naïve. 

    In isolation, I’d say this, simply:

    If you want the rent paid before the 5th, charge a late fee earlier in the month. I kind of agree with your tenant on this one. If the money comes in before the 5th, life is good. She’s happy, you should be happy. 

    But there’s more to this story and that’s not how you chose to handle the situation. 

    Clearly you have a bad relationship here. And, this person should never have been allowed to rent from you in the first place if you’d been following best practices and had reasonable screening practices (no bad credit scores, and no evictions!). everyone has a sob story for their eviction and bad credit. But we don’t hear bad tenant stories about people with good credit.

    Here are some thoughts for consideration:

    I’d contact her and apologize (yes, seriously) for sending a pay or quit notice before the grace period was even over. That was reactionary and unprofessional from you.

    Then, I’d assess how much longer her lease is. If less than 6 months, I’d consider trying to ride it out and pray she pays. If longer, I’d consider a very polite very professional cash for keys offer. Perhaps explain that you wonder if this is a good fit and if she leaves in a two weeks, you will give her last months rent back in cash, and her security deposit back. But, no pressure and she can stay if she chooses to, but the lease will not renew when it expires.

    Then, you can place a tenant who passes your credit criminal and eviction check…



  • Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 268 posts · 189 votes
    4y

    @J. Wang I’m sorry to read about this. It sounds like you have realized your mistake with this tenant and going forward I’m sure you will up your tenant screening.

    As far as paying late, what exactly does the lease say? Your lease sounds like it has standard grace period.

  • Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes
    4y

    accepting a tenant with eviction history and bad credit is mistake right there. But as long as she is paying right now I wouldn't sweat too much if its a day or two late.  I have a tenant like that and I am in Los Angeles CA one of the hardest place to evict so as long as they are still paying I have no reason to try to stir things up. Her attitude aligns with being a bad tenant who has a history of not being responsible so doesn't surprise me one bit. 

  • Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Sean McKee:

    @J. Wang I’m sorry to read about this. It sounds like you have realized your mistake with this tenant and going forward I’m sure you will up your tenant screening.

    As far as paying late, what exactly does the lease say? Your lease sounds like it has standard grace period.

    OK, this is what my lease says: Rent is due in full on or before 5 p.m. on the first (1st) day of each and every month during the Term, regardless of whether that day is a Saturday, Sunday, or Holiday. If rent is not received by the end of the day on the fifth (5th) day of each month, a late fee of the greater of 5% of the unpaid rent amount, or fifteen dollars will be charged. 

    As far as I understand, if she pays on the 2 day, she is too late. I may not charge a late fee, but she is still too late. Am I right? 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    4y

    Maybe the landlord business isn't for you. Nearly every tenant in America pays on the 5th if there's a late fee on the 6th. Lol

  • Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Scott Trench:
    Quote from @J. Wang:

    Hi fellow landlords,

    Today I had a situation with one of my tenants in NC. This tenant has been paying rent always on the 5th, although the lease agreement says the rent should be paid on the 1st of every month. She pays on the 5th because on the 6th there will be a late fee. I would not have a problem with it, if she would have explained to me any difficulties she has in advance. But no, it looks like to me that she pays late on purpose and with no good reason. What disturbs me is her attitude. She was yelling at me over the phone and insisted that paying on the 5th is not considered paying late. She literally told me that I will get my rent on the 5th, that's it.  What is even more disturbing and ridiculous is when she needed AC maintenance, I had it fixed on the same freaking day as she submitted the request. But madam was angry at me for not having done it faster. That's why yesterday, I sent her a PAY OR QUIT NOTICE after she was late again. Since she has such a high expectation on the maintenance, I would also demand on-time payments.  Has anybody had similar issues with their tenants? Can I evict her if she continues doing this? I mean is 4/5 days late a good enough reason to evict her? Thank you in advance for any feedbacks! 

    P.S. she has eviction history and a bad credit score. But I still took her because she appeared so nice during application, and was so desperate looking for a place to rent, and promised that the eviction was due to her pregnancy which was six years ago and she had paid off everything. Now I regret being too emotional and naïve. 

    In isolation, I’d say this, simply:

    If you want the rent paid before the 5th, charge a late fee earlier in the month. I kind of agree with your tenant on this one. If the money comes in before the 5th, life is good. She’s happy, you should be happy. 

    But there’s more to this story and that’s not how you chose to handle the situation. 

    Clearly you have a bad relationship here. And, this person should never have been allowed to rent from you in the first place if you’d been following best practices and had reasonable screening practices (no bad credit scores, and no evictions!). everyone has a sob story for their eviction and bad credit. But we don’t hear bad tenant stories about people with good credit.

    Here are some thoughts for consideration:

    I’d contact her and apologize (yes, seriously) for sending a pay or quit notice before the grace period was even over. That was reactionary and unprofessional from you.

    Then, I’d assess how much longer her lease is. If less than 6 months, I’d consider trying to ride it out and pray she pays. If longer, I’d consider a very polite very professional cash for keys offer. Perhaps explain that you wonder if this is a good fit and if she leaves in a two weeks, you will give her last months rent back in cash, and her security deposit back. But, no pressure and she can stay if she chooses to, but the lease will not renew when it expires.

    Then, you can place a tenant who passes your credit criminal and eviction check…


    Hi Scott, thank you so much of your insights. Yes, I would definitely be more strict with screening next time, and don't let my emotion take lead. :-D I don't think I can bring myself to apologize to her though. I will just terminate the lease as soon as the initial term ends.

  • Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 268 posts · 189 votes
    4y
    Quote from @J. Wang:
    Quote from @Sean McKee:

    @J. Wang I’m sorry to read about this. It sounds like you have realized your mistake with this tenant and going forward I’m sure you will up your tenant screening.

    As far as paying late, what exactly does the lease say? Your lease sounds like it has standard grace period.

    OK, this is what my lease says: Rent is due in full on or before 5 p.m. on the first (1st) day of each and every month during the Term, regardless of whether that day is a Saturday, Sunday, or Holiday. If rent is not received by the end of the day on the fifth (5th) day of each month, a late fee of the greater of 5% of the unpaid rent amount, or fifteen dollars will be charged. 

    As far as I understand, if she pays on the 2 day, she is too late. I may not charge a late fee, but she is still too late. Am I right? 


     It looks like technically, but it probably won’t be worth the effort of going back and forward. If you absolutely feel the need to confront her over it, you can serve her a notice to quit or cure. Essentially she’s violating the lease terms. And if she doesn’t remedy it, she must leave. My lawyer had me serve something like this before. However as of right now I would try and keep the calm. She’s not that late and I wouldn’t want you to cause yourself more issues. I know the exact feeling you are going through. It sucks sometimes to have to swallow your pride.

  • Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Maybe the landlord business isn't for you. Nearly every tenant in America pays on the 5th if there's a late fee on the 6th. Lol


     Really! I have 9 properties and all my other tenants pay on time or earlier. Wow, I guess I can consider myself lucky! I just moved here from Austria four years ago and I still have a lot to learn. 

  • Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Quote from @David P.:

    accepting a tenant with eviction history and bad credit is mistake right there. But as long as she is paying right now I wouldn't sweat too much if its a day or two late.  I have a tenant like that and I am in Los Angeles CA one of the hardest place to evict so as long as they are still paying I have no reason to try to stir things up. Her attitude aligns with being a bad tenant who has a history of not being responsible so doesn't surprise me one bit. 


     True! I always thought people deserve a second chance. Especially when you were young you could make unwise decisions. 

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @J. Wang:

    Hi fellow landlords,

    Today I had a situation with one of my tenants in NC. This tenant has been paying rent always on the 5th, although the lease agreement says the rent should be paid on the 1st of every month. She pays on the 5th because on the 6th there will be a late fee. I would not have a problem with it, if she would have explained to me any difficulties she has in advance. But no, it looks like to me that she pays late on purpose and with no good reason. What disturbs me is her attitude. She was yelling at me over the phone and insisted that paying on the 5th is not considered paying late. She literally told me that I will get my rent on the 5th, that's it.  What is even more disturbing and ridiculous is when she needed AC maintenance, I had it fixed on the same freaking day as she submitted the request. But madam was angry at me for not having done it faster. That's why yesterday, I sent her a PAY OR QUIT NOTICE after she was late again. Since she has such a high expectation on the maintenance, I would also demand on-time payments.  Has anybody had similar issues with their tenants? Can I evict her if she continues doing this? I mean is 4/5 days late a good enough reason to evict her? Thank you in advance for any feedbacks! 

    P.S. she has eviction history and a bad credit score. But I still took her because she appeared so nice during application, and was so desperate looking for a place to rent, and promised that the eviction was due to her pregnancy which was six years ago and she had paid off everything. Now I regret being too emotional and naïve. 


     I don't think of that as being late. Most tenants pay right before the late fee kicks in. That is very normal.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @John Underwood:
    Quote from @J. Wang:

    Hi fellow landlords,

    Today I had a situation with one of my tenants in NC. This tenant has been paying rent always on the 5th, although the lease agreement says the rent should be paid on the 1st of every month. She pays on the 5th because on the 6th there will be a late fee. I would not have a problem with it, if she would have explained to me any difficulties she has in advance. But no, it looks like to me that she pays late on purpose and with no good reason. What disturbs me is her attitude. She was yelling at me over the phone and insisted that paying on the 5th is not considered paying late. She literally told me that I will get my rent on the 5th, that's it.  What is even more disturbing and ridiculous is when she needed AC maintenance, I had it fixed on the same freaking day as she submitted the request. But madam was angry at me for not having done it faster. That's why yesterday, I sent her a PAY OR QUIT NOTICE after she was late again. Since she has such a high expectation on the maintenance, I would also demand on-time payments.  Has anybody had similar issues with their tenants? Can I evict her if she continues doing this? I mean is 4/5 days late a good enough reason to evict her? Thank you in advance for any feedbacks! 

    P.S. she has eviction history and a bad credit score. But I still took her because she appeared so nice during application, and was so desperate looking for a place to rent, and promised that the eviction was due to her pregnancy which was six years ago and she had paid off everything. Now I regret being too emotional and naïve. 


     I don't think of that as being late. Most tenants pay right before the late fee kicks in. That is very normal.


     This is considered the grace period as you set up in your lease so no penalties for baying by the 5th.

  • Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @J. Wang

    Sorry to chime in, but I agree with everybody else.  The contract says the rent is due on the 1st but late after the 5th..  As is pretty customary, there is a 5 day grace period.  If that didn't work for you, you should have written the contract terms differently.  Lesson learned, if you want something specific, put it in black and white specifically.  Good luck.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    4y

    In some areas, they are allowed to pay up until the 5th without it being considered late.  So while it may be frustrating, she's within her rights. 

    When it comes up to renewing her lease, give her notice of non-renewal.  Many times people will come up with all sorts of stories as to why they have bad credit, evictions, etc.  Don't believe them, move on to another applicant.  Usually the ones who have lots of excuses are problematic.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Maybe the landlord business isn't for you. Nearly every tenant in America pays on the 5th if there's a late fee on the 6th. Lol


    Exactly. I remember being a tenant and thinking: "hmmmm, due on first, 5 days until it's late, must be ok to pay on the 5th"

  • Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
    4y

    i would be looking over your lease. Ours have a grave period, and terms of late fees in it. 

  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Jiebing Wang sounds like you made a mountain out of an ant hill and it may cost you.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y

    You're getting too emotional and taking this too personally.

    She is technically wrong; rent is due on the first. However, she can legally pay late and you have no recourse, so why get worked up over it? If she pays on the 5th, accept it. If she pays on the 6th, charge the late fee. If she pays on the 12th or whatever, start your eviction process. It's a business, not training your child on how to be a good citizen.

    A good business will be responsive to maintenance requests. Don't start playing games with her to punish her for what you consider bad behavior. Be a good business owner and maybe you'll teach her to be a good tenant.

    On the other hand, I would not tolerate a Tenant berating me. That would generate a simple letter requesting she speak to me respectfully. When she's close to lease termination, make it very clear you won't renew her lease because of the late payments and other behavior and move on.

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  • Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    In my business - as well as my clients' - rent is due on the 1st.  The 1st.  There is no acceptable grace period.  None.  This is made clear before the lease is signed, in the lease, and in a "Welcome Letter" - all that require it and payment via electronic delivery only.  When you allow a tenant to pay late, a precedent has been set.  If you moved to evict her, she would have a valid claim that she ALWAYS paid her rent before the 5th but not on the 1st and you accepted it every time until now.  The problem in the eyes of the court, and many others, is that you as the Landlord changed the covenant as evidenced by your behavior.  My recommendation is to not prize late fees and late payments are indicative of an inability or unwillingness to pay as agreed.  If she doesn't pay on the 1st, post a Notice To Quit on the 2nd.  Be specific in it that the lease states payment is due on the 1st and that she has violated the agreement repeatedly and it will not be tolerated further.  Manage to the lease.  The American Apartment Association's research that the majority of landlords who fail do so because they failed to enforce their own leases.  Pretty telling...

  • Realtor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 117 posts · 165 votes
    4y

    Does it really make sense to spend money on turnover and have vacancy because the rent is sent in a few days passed what you initially expected? 
    I had a similar experience with my tenant and A/C and I told them if they wanted to break their lease over it I would be okay with it. By saying it like “it’s seems like you are unhappy with how things are handled and if you would like to break the lease with no penalties we can move forward with that”. The tenant realized that it was in their best interest to stay and soon after stopped making ridiculous requests and stopped complaining about the timeliness of the maintenance(one time they called me because there was a wasp — one wasp). 
    To echo what everyone else is saying, she is not late. You have a soured relationship but it might be worth repairing before you give her the boot. Just a thought. 

  • Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 729 posts · 596 votes
    4y

    @Jiebing Wang

    I find this to be very common in NC as the state allows 5 days to pay. I have tenants that continually pay on the 5th. Not much you can do about it once they realize they can legally withhold 5 days. I simply send a reminder on the 4th and tell them if I do not receive the rent by the 5th, they will need to include the late fee to be paid in full.

  • Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 729 posts · 596 votes
    4y

    @Sean McKee

    Nc has a law that allows 5 day grace period. No late fee can be charged until after 5 days.

  • Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Quote from @David M.:

    @J. Wang

    Sorry to chime in, but I agree with everybody else.  The contract says the rent is due on the 1st but late after the 5th..  As is pretty customary, there is a 5 day grace period.  If that didn't work for you, you should have written the contract terms differently.  Lesson learned, if you want something specific, put it in black and white specifically.  Good luck.


     No, don't be sorry. I am still learning, and I appreciate every advice. 

  • Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Curtis Mears:

    @Jiebing Wang

    I find this to be very common in NC as the state allows 5 days to pay. I have tenants that continually pay on the 5th. Not much you can do about it once they realize they can legally withhold 5 days. I simply send a reminder on the 4th and tell them if I do not receive the rent by the 5th, they will need to include the late fee to be paid in full.


     Thank you Curtis!

  • Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 268 posts · 189 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Curtis Mears:

    @Sean McKee

    Nc has a law that allows 5 day grace period. No late fee can be charged until after 5 days.

    That sums it up then.
  • Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jess Haas:

    Does it really make sense to spend money on turnover and have vacancy because the rent is sent in a few days passed what you initially expected? 
    I had a similar experience with my tenant and A/C and I told them if they wanted to break their lease over it I would be okay with it. By saying it like “it’s seems like you are unhappy with how things are handled and if you would like to break the lease with no penalties we can move forward with that”. The tenant realized that it was in their best interest to stay and soon after stopped making ridiculous requests and stopped complaining about the timeliness of the maintenance(one time they called me because there was a wasp — one wasp). 
    To echo what everyone else is saying, she is not late. You have a soured relationship but it might be worth repairing before you give her the boot. Just a thought. 


     Hi Jess, thank you so much for the advice. :-D I can totally relate to your ONE wasp story. Some tenants just get so hysterical for nothing. Yes, I agree with you. I wrote my post right after this lady yelled at me. You can probably imagine how upset I was. I thought due date is due date, if you don't paid on the due date, you are late. It's funny though, it reminds me of credit card limit. My husband and I learned after 3 years living here, that we are not suppose to use more than half of our credit card limit in order to get a good score. 

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