Racist Tenants - how to address or ending lease an option?

Investor · 06082 · Member since 2021 · 21 posts · 6 votes

I have tenants who are racist to other tenants who live on the property. Both tenants has made racist comments about the other tenants to my property manager when referring to the other tenants. One of the tenant went as far as to say he's going to get his gun and shoot them. When the property manager told him he can't say things like that, he plays it off saying he can say whatever he wants but he doesn't always mean it. What can we do?

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JD MartinBusiness Member

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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

First, it's an issue for the property manager to deal with; otherwise, why have a manager?

Second, legitimate communicated threats of violence should be reported to law enforcement.

Third, it's unsavory but not illegal to be a racist or say racist things. At the same time, racist is not a protected class and there's no reason the PM can't give them walking papers when their lease is up.

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Greg R.
Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
4y
You don't want any kind of violence happening at your properties. For this one you definitely want to talk to an attorney and probably even the police. You don't want to be the landlord who ignored a tenant's threat to shoot someone and then something bad happens.
13 Reply
Joshuam R.
Rental Property Investor · FL · Member since 2016 · 271 posts · 92 votes
4y
Holy shyt. This is horrible. Evil lingering. Sorry I wont be able to share any thought on a solution or some clarity. But your post brings a question to my mind. What class type is this property and these tenants A, B, C.....
0 Reply
Joshuam R.
Rental Property Investor · FL · Member since 2016 · 271 posts · 92 votes
4y
Quote from @Greg R.:

You don't want any kind of violence happening at your properties. For this one you definitely want to talk to an attorney and probably even the police. You don't want to be the landlord who ignored a tenant's threat to shoot someone and then something bad happens.

100%, I read her post and my thoughts froze. Good advice. Makes sense. Treat it like a major emergency repair.
1 Reply
Paul De Luca
Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
4y
@Kim Huynh
A threat of violence like that should be taken very seriously, whether it was intended to be a "joke" or not. Why did the tenant say that?
Your property manager should reiterate that threats of violence are not tolerated and the leases should be reviewed to see if that's grounds for termination. I don't know if the police should be involved at this stage.... I would lean on your property manager for the best course of action since it is likely that they have handled situations like this before.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
4y
First, it's an issue for the property manager to deal with; otherwise, why have a manager?

Second, legitimate communicated threats of violence should be reported to law enforcement.

Third, it's unsavory but not illegal to be a racist or say racist things. At the same time, racist is not a protected class and there's no reason the PM can't give them walking papers when their lease is up.
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Benjamin AakerPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Brandon, SD · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
4y

I completely agree with @JD Martin's three comments. Have a read through them again. Any violent threats are a matter for law enforcement. You don't need to get personally involved; that's for your manager. Send the offending tenant a non-renew when the lease is up.
3 Reply
Linda S.
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Kim Huynh,

I completely agree with @JD Martin, this is for your PROPERTY MANAGER to deal with! You're paying them to deal with the problems!
Second, this reminds me of the tiktok about the guy in home depot who said "he was going to blow up the bathroom."
If you self-managed like me, well I had a duplex tenant pull a gun on the neighboring pregnant tenant in January, really scary. The best advice is encourage the one who is threated to file a police report, get a restraining order. If the aggressor violate it, a judge will order them to move, and then problem solved. This is a CIVIL matter between 2 people-- NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LANDLORD WHO JUST PROVIDES HOUSING. This should be handled by the police-- NOT YOU. I mean think-- worst case scenario, you kick the aggressor out, then they blame the people who got threatened, maybe they will seak revenge? You don't be the bad guy-- let the POLICE and the LAW be the bad guy.
My mentor strongly encouraged me to be neutral-- if you weren't there, you do NOT know what was said/done/why, it's messy-- but has nothing to do with you. You are a landlord. Let the tenants decide to file if they felt threatened or not-- this has nothing to do with you.
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Tim Miller
Rental Property Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 378 posts · 382 votes
4y
I agree with JD but I'd be looking for a new PM. Why is the PM coming to you about this problem? It sounds like they don't know how to handle this situation. Tell your PM to do their job and get the tenant out! Again, time to fine a new PM.
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Kim HuynhPro Member
OP
Investor · 06082 · Member since 2021 · 21 posts · 6 votes
4y
They are on month to month so we can give them notice to end their lease of course. The woman keeps on mentioning that she knows her rights and that she used to be a case worker, which I am not sure what she's insinuating.
Planning to give them a letter to let them know that we do not tolerate racist remarks and threatening comments. We assumed these tenants from the previous owners. Not sure if we can update the lease to state no weapons/guns are allowed in the rental property. I've read several publications but some say yes, and others say that it may infringe on te 2nd amendment to bear arms.....
Checking with a lawyer to see what my options are but figured I go to BP to see if anyone has dealt with these issues.
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Alicia MarksPro Member
Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
I would also check on laws for the property area regarding recording conversations. If she is stating she knows her rights, etc. you may deal with a lawsuit or at least threats. If conversations can be recorded with one side acknowledgement I'd say to make it standard when your PM converses with them to have recordings. It would back up your nonrenewal and help protect yourself once reported to police to assist any case development.
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Steve Ehrman
Troy, MI · Member since 2019 · 61 posts · 20 votes
4y
@Kim Huynh. I am not sure on how your lease is set up, but on ours we can issue a warning to the tenant saying that they are disturbing the other tenants. 3 warnings results in a 30 day notice
If the person being threatened would file a police report, you could give one warning and follow up with 30 day notice on the second notice.
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Steve Ehrman
Troy, MI · Member since 2019 · 61 posts · 20 votes
4y
@Linda S. Very good advice
1 Reply
Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
4y
Hi Kim,
It's probably best regarding the firearms threat, to call the Police Department and let them know the situation, so they are in the loop and can take any actions they deem appropriate under the law.
Making racist comments about people, it seems like that's just something some people do--collect the rent.
If you can bounce them out on the firearms threat, that seems best (safety wise for yourself, your manager and other renters) vs. a non-renew, but talking to an attorney would be best. Maybe your eviction courts are lenient on certain things or certain economic classes of people.
As far as you and the manager being in the loop regarding knowing about this firearms threat, you might have a lawsuit exposure if you don't do the right thing as defined by your legal jurisdiction.
Seems like consulting with a LOCAL lawyer about what YOU should do would be prudent.
If it's on our mind too much, (you can only do so much) go do something to lessen your stress, Golf driving range, batting cage, walk in the park, make a mixed drink with some fruit on it, etc..
Good Luck!
1 Reply
Jonathan R McLaughlin
Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Kim Huynh if you aren’t required to give a reason for non renewal don’t give a reason. Just non-renew.
1 Reply
Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y
Why are you even hearing about this? I don’t know one thing any of my tenants has ever said to my PM. Why would I? Remember, you are taking one person’s word that this even happened. A person who isn’t very good at their job. Maybe they hate the tenant, maybe they want you to know how hard their job is, who knows.
Ps. I don’t even know what race my tenants are. Do you? If so, why? This is not your fight and just another reason to hire a PM that does it for a living. Screen tenants and prevent fair housing violations.
0 Reply
Adam Martin
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
4y
I had a teacher in high school tell once say your rights end where another’s begin and that has stuck with me. I would have your pm and the other tenant file police reports if nothing else as evidence of why you are non renewing. Being a racist and demonstrating your free speech is something I would issue a cure or quit. Threats of violence are a 1 strike you are out. Words have meaning and actions have consequences. Even in the more tenant friendly areas I don’t think a judge is going to let this fly as one of the few things more unpopular than landlords in today’s society are racists with the threat of violence.
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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
It would matter to me what was said. In todays world, things are often referred to as 'racist' that actually are not. What exactly was said? If it was really a horrible statement, I would get rid of these guys, legally of course.
1 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y
I was reading the book of Samuel in my Bible this morning. Eli was the head priest and a good man. But his sons were terrible men, disobeying the law, sleeping with loose women, etc. God punishes Eli - not because he was bad, but because he knew his sons were bad and he didn't stop them.
You may not be committing the crime, but you have an ethical responsibility to stand up to those committing the crime. Our society has lost site of this.
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Kim HuynhPro Member
OP
Investor · 06082 · Member since 2021 · 21 posts · 6 votes
4y
They are on month to month so we can give them notice to end their lease of course. The woman keeps on mentioning that she knows her rights and that she used to be a case worker, which I am not sure what she's insinuating.

Planning to give them a letter to let them know that we do not tolerate racist remarks and threatening comments. We assumed these tenants from the previous owners. Not sure if we can update the lease to state no weapons/guns are allowed in the rental property. I've read several publications but some say yes, and others say that it may infringe on te 2nd amendment to bear arms.....

Checking with a lawyer to see what my options are but figured I go to BP to see if anyone has dealt with these issues.
0 Reply
Bernardino Graziano
North Royalton, OH · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 48 votes
4y
@Kim Huynh
Hello Kim,
If the tenants are on a MTM lease, just give them a 30 days notice to move out and no explanations. They have the right to give you a 30 days notice if they want to move and so do you. Remember, don’t give them a reason, that’s what I did with a tenant of mine in the past. She wasn’t happy but she is gone though.
6 Reply
Kim HuynhPro Member
OP
Investor · 06082 · Member since 2021 · 21 posts · 6 votes
4y
Thank you all for your feedback. Discussing it with my PM & lawyer, and will look into not renewing their lease and getting them out.
For those who asked, the tenants are making racist comments to the PM about tenants who are Mexicans. Referring to them as "those Mexicans, those people, they don't even speak English, they are all filthy and drunks...," and making claims about the Mexican tenants without any evidence or vallidity. Claiming they have bedbugs, and that they know those people have bed bugs by just the way they live (pest control stated there are no evidence of bedbugs).
The husband was complaining to the PM about the "Mexicans" how they was drunk and was in the basement on the utilities side (his apartment is on the other side of the basement). Apparently he didn't like the tenant going into the utililites side, and that was when he said a comment about how he didn't like it and he can get his gun and shooting "them".
0 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Wow, I'd get rid of these people ASAP....
1 Reply
Randy Gutierrez
Investor · NY · Member since 2019 · 171 posts · 80 votes
4y
Geez, definitely get them out. Set the standard and good luck!
0 Reply
Carlos M.
Investor · Lancaster, PA · Member since 2016 · 94 posts · 356 votes
4y
@Kim Huynh terminate BOTH of their leases today !
0 Reply
Samuel Eddinger
Meriden, CT · Member since 2018 · 698 posts · 500 votes
4y
@Kim Huynh - As a CT based property manager, your property manager should be issuing a KAPA notification for extreme nuisance (hopefully you have a clause in the lease). They should be directing this behavior as unacceptable and the police should have been called. If the behavior happens again, the eviction process should be continued with the lease violation. Processes have to be followed to get people out. You can in parallel start the eviction for lapse of time.
Happy to get on a phone call if needed.
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