Not sure if I should still invest in a multifamily by Troy Upstate Ny, because it is not a Landlord Friendly State and protects bad tenants from being evicted right away in 2-3 months like you can in PA or CT.. My Fears & Concerns Are: I get bad tenant who knows how to play the system to delay the eviction process, may even purposely breaks things in apartment and state not paying rent till all things are repaired and then does not open door when someone comes to repair the problem all a scheme to to delay the eviction process up to 2 years in some cases as I have heard of horror stories. Question: 1) Should I buy multifamily elsewhere like PA or CT which have laws in place to evict BAD tenants fast within 3 months 2) Should I still consider investing in upstate NY if I find a good deal despite the laws that protect bad tenants, if so WHY ? 3) What do I need to do or put in place to make sure a bad tenant who knows how to play the system to their favor does not take advantage of me and stays up to 2 years rent free playing the housing court system ............... 4) Does a good experienced attorney help to evict bad tenants quickly, what makes them good with evictions and can you recommend to me a good attorney that knows also how to play the system to evict tenants quickly 5) What is the shortest time and longest time it took you to evict bad tenant from your multifamily

@Edwin De leon I'm also in a tenant-friendly county & state; this scared me at first but I learned to throughly screen my tenants. In the few years I've managed properties, I have not had any tenants that haven't paid (knock on wood); and in that time frame, more tenant-friendly laws were passed. I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather have empty properties than to place a tenant I wasn't confident about. A multi-family building poses additional challenges as tenants tend to talk, so you need to be very careful with what you say and what you do. If you let one tenant slide on something, chances are that other tenants will find out. Everything is scary at first because we are not familiar with it but after a while we get more comfortable. Plan ahead, stay organized and you'll be fine.

@Edwin De leon I own 50+ units in NY and manage over 500. Evictions are a pain and the state has gone overboard with some of the tenant laws. With that being said our average cash on cash returns are 8% in B class areas and our delinquency hovers around 7-10% of our total portfolio. The 10% delinquency is geographic by micro markets. Anywhere we see a 15-20% cash on cash we also see a lot of high risk doors. I have been investing for 10+ years and am a lot richer now because I have bought RE consistently every year for 10 years. Some of the A class properties I bought 10 years ago at a 1% cash on cash return are now 10% cash on cash return properties due to rent increase and some have almost doubled in value. I’m still buying, still managing, and we still have a lot of clients buying. Tenant laws suck, returns do not. Sometimes the decision made at the court house drive me crazy, but I remind myself I have all these units, lots at a 3% interest rate, my tenants are paying down my mortgages, and they have continued to appreciate. Having a diverse portfolio has also helped. When I stared buying 10 years ago some guy told me Buffalo NY market was a bubble about to burst and you can’t make any money here because of the tenant laws. Glad I didn’t listen to that guy.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The easiest way to avoid evictions is by ensuring you have quality tenants via rigorous vetting methods. 1. Background Check 2. Credit Check 3. Income Verification (W-2s, Paystubs) 4. Employer Reference (Call them!) 5. Prior Landlord Reference(s) (Call them!)

@Edwin De leon Hello, I invest in upstate New York. I just evicted someone for non-payment and it took about 4 months. That is with proper paperwork and with an eviction attorney. It also depends on the speed of that county's court as well. This does not deter me from obtaining future investment properties in NY.

Should I Buy Multifamily Despite NY Laws That Protect Bad Tenant

Taylor DaschBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Temple, TX · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 700 votes

3y

I would definitely be wary of investing in an area that favors the tenant. I currently have a tenant that is not paying and it has been a nightmare, however I know that I can get them out at my discretion because Texas favors landlords.

If you are comfortable with other markets or are willing to get familiar with other markets I think that would be ideal, but if you are familiar with your local market and that is where you would like to invest, I still say go for it just have a strict criteria on your tenant selection.

[email protected]254-718-4249

Taylor Dasch | EG Realty561 Reviews

Website View Page

2 Reply

Greg ScottPro Member

Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes

3y

I've never invested in NY property but can share my multifamily experience.

1&2) I don't like the brain damage of dealing with tenants that know how to play the system. That said, if the deal was smoking hot, I might consider it.

3&4) Manage professionally. Mom & Pop management style will create problems later. If you go in front of a judge and you've been wishy washy on documentation or following your own lease, you give the judge a huge opening to rule against you. This is part of the reason we use eviction attorneys. They will know how to present the information in the most favorable light for you. In addition, the experienced ones may have been in front of that same judge many times. They will know their personality quirks and hot buttons. Your outcome will be much better hiring professional help.

5) Longest time was 10 months and due to two factors. First, our property management company took their eye off the ball. We found out much later that they had not been filing paperwork on time which ultimately resulted in us parting ways with that management company. Second, our tenants declared bankruptcy and we were prohibited from any contact with the residents for about two months. So, about 1/3 of the delay was due to the bankruptcy filing and 2/3 due to poor management.

5 Reply

Nate Monson

Real Estate Agent · Albany, NY · Member since 2017 · 309 posts · 149 votes

3y

Hi @Edwin De leon New York is certainly a state that seems to favor tenants. That being said the main city that has been truly a problem for landlords is Albany. No eviction should be labeled easy, but outside of Albany evictions aren't as troublesome.

1) All things being equal, yes buying in states with less restrictive laws is better. But this there are obviously more dynamics at play here.

2) I'm obviously biased being in NY, but there are plenty of ways to safely invest here. It depends on your goals. The WHY is that most markets here are stable cash flowing markets.

3) The simple answer here is good systems and processes to avoid having a terrible tenant in the first place, including making sure management is aligned with your way of thinking. There's no magic wand to wave to fully prevent a bad tenant even in good land-lording markets.

4) Short answer here is: YES. Absolutely can make a difference.

5) There are some horror stories of course. Shortest I've been is 3-4 weeks before COVID. Now a days in Albany it can be a 2 month process on average.

If you'd like to talk about the market up here please don't hesitate to reach out!

6 Reply

Mohammed Rahman

Real Estate Broker · New York, NY · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

3y

Hey @Edwin De leon - is this going to be your first investment property? Asking because 99% of people are good renters that just want to pay their rent on time and get along with their lives. Yes, there are bad apples and those are the ones that deter everyone from being a landlord.

1. Depends on what your investment thesis is. Are you ok with a property that's further away from you, or do you want something closer? No one can answer this question for you - decide on what's most important for yourself and go ahead.

2. Again, this depends on your risk appetite. Upstate NY has some good deals, especially for cashflow investors (I'm one of those people). The area you invest in will attract the same tenant profile FYI.

3. All the work should be done up front... applications, references, verification of income, etc. This is what you as the landlord need to be doing before placing anyone.

4. Yes, a good real estate attorney can help - just like a good attorney can help in almost any situation to make sure that you're following the laws properly when it comes with evicting tenants.

5. Never had to evict, but at the peak of COVID and the recovery one of my clients had a tenant that hadn't paid him in 2+ years due to how backed up the courts were.

4 Reply

Jazmin German

New to Real Estate · New York, NY · Member since 2020 · 9 posts · 10 votes

3y

Thanks for asking these questions! Great answers as well.

I too currently have the same questions and concerns about investing in NY!

I am currently looking for my first multi-family property to house hack in the Bronx, Westchester county or maybe CT.

My biggest concerns is dealing with bad tenants in a tenant friendly state plus evictions/courts.

I try to network with real estate investors in this market and attend real estate networking events to hear how investors handle this. The main advice I commonly hear and try to keep in mind is what @Nate Monson offered with #3. Have a strict process for screening tenants.

I like to think that if you can invest/handle NY you can invest/handle anywhere.

5 Reply

Nate Monson

Real Estate Agent · Albany, NY · Member since 2017 · 309 posts · 149 votes

3y

Quote from @Jazmin German:

Thanks for asking these questions! Great answers as well.

I too currently have the same questions and concerns about investing in NY!

I am currently looking for my first multi-family property to house hack in the Bronx, Westchester county or maybe CT.

My biggest concerns is dealing with bad tenants in a tenant friendly state plus evictions/courts.

I try to network with real estate investors in this market and attend real estate networking events to hear how investors handle this. The main advice I commonly hear and try to keep in mind is what @Nate Monson offered with #3. Have a strict process for screening tenants.

I like to think that if you can invest/handle NY you can invest/handle anywhere.

And your not the only one with this fear. But in any investing endeavor there is going to be some level of risk. Everyone has to take that leap of faith on their first deal. You got this!

4 Reply

Edwin De leon

OP

Investor · bronx, NY · Member since 2008 · 265 posts · 42 votes

3y

Quote from @Jazmin German:

Thanks for asking these questions! Great answers as well.

I too currently have the same questions and concerns about investing in NY!

I am currently looking for my first multi-family property to house hack in the Bronx, Westchester county or maybe CT.

My biggest concerns is dealing with bad tenants in a tenant friendly state plus evictions/courts.

I try to network with real estate investors in this market and attend real estate networking events to hear how investors handle this. The main advice I commonly hear and try to keep in mind is what @Nate Monson offered with #3. Have a strict process for screening tenants.

I like to think that if you can invest/handle NY you can invest/handle anywhere.

Hi Jazmin, I am from the Bronx, properties are super high here in NYC so not ready for Bronx property yet. The biggest takeaway from this post and responses, is learn how to vet prospective tenants correctly to minimize placing a bad tenant in the 1st place, the only way I will invest in Upstate NY is if I find a super hot deal with built in equity. I will for now focus more on CT and PA once I get more experience I may be willing to try NYC due to appreciation rates you get in NYC, hummm if I were to find a super hot deal in NYC .... who knows I may take the bite with that said maybe I should also look at NYC but the prices are super high which means it will place a squeeze on my pension check :( ........ QUESTION....? what areas are you attending Real Estate Networking Events .... I am thinking of attending CT or PA vs nyc what is your thoughts on this on why I should consider looking at networking events in NYC or westcheter county

1 Reply

Trevor Naumann

Real Estate Agent · NY · Member since 2022 · 111 posts · 48 votes

3y

Quote from @Nate Monson:

Hi @Edwin De leon New York is certainly a state that seems to favor tenants. That being said the main city that has been truly a problem for landlords is Albany. No eviction should be labeled easy, but outside of Albany evictions aren't as troublesome.

1) All things being equal, yes buying in states with less restrictive laws is better. But this there are obviously more dynamics at play here.

2) I'm obviously biased being in NY, but there are plenty of ways to safely invest here. It depends on your goals. The WHY is that most markets here are stable cash flowing markets.

3) The simple answer here is good systems and processes to avoid having a terrible tenant in the first place, including making sure management is aligned with your way of thinking. There's no magic wand to wave to fully prevent a bad tenant even in good land-lording markets.

4) Short answer here is: YES. Absolutely can make a difference.

5) There are some horror stories of course. Shortest I've been is 3-4 weeks before COVID. Now a days in Albany it can be a 2 month process on average.

If you'd like to talk about the market up here please don't hesitate to reach out!

Agreed. in my experience the tertiary markets of upstate new york are a lot more like the Midwest and evictions aren't so bad. Where i am they take 1-2 months.

1 Reply

Jazmin German

New to Real Estate · New York, NY · Member since 2020 · 9 posts · 10 votes

3y

@Edwin De leon

I live in the Bronx too and I work in Manhattan so I'm limited to finding a house hack that can only be an hour/hour in half out from Manhattan. I definitely don't think I will be able to find a deal in the Bronx starting off. That's why my focus is primarily Yonkers, Westchester county area which my mentor currently lives/invests in. There's still parts that are extremely expensive but hopefully something comes soon through house hacking. I only attend a networking event in Yonkers. I find that most of the people attending are investors who are currently investing in Westchester county, upstate and out of state like CT,PA and other states rather than anywhere in NYC. I think its a good place to start networking then you can work your way to the other states through connections from the events here.

My realtor that I just started working with is also licensed in CT and he has presented with some properties in CT that are about an hour and a half into Manhattan on the Metronorth. But from my experience these networking events in Yonkers are really worth it.

2 Reply

Malkia Ra

Rental Property Investor · Prince George's County, MD · Member since 2022 · 177 posts · 187 votes

3y

Quote from @Taylor Dasch:

I currently have a tenant that is not paying and it has been a nightmare, however I know that I can get them out at my discretion because Texas favors landlords.

Interesting. In a tenant-friendly jurisdiction such as Texas, why put up with a nonpaying tenant for longer than you have to?

2 Reply

Taylor DaschBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Temple, TX · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 700 votes

3y

Quote from @Malkia Ra:

Quote from @Taylor Dasch:

I currently have a tenant that is not paying and it has been a nightmare, however I know that I can get them out at my discretion because Texas favors landlords.

Interesting. In a tenant-friendly jurisdiction such as Texas, why put up with a nonpaying tenant for longer than you have to?

I am giving her another month as she is supposed to have a large settlement coming in ( I confirmed with the insurance company) If it doesnt improve after that, I will likely give it another month and then get her out of there.

[email protected]254-718-4249

Taylor Dasch | EG Realty561 Reviews

Website View Page

2 Reply

Brett Voorhees

Real Estate Agent · South Florida · Member since 2022 · 85 posts · 42 votes

3y

Hey @Edwin De leon, I totally agree with @Greg Scott. Deal depending for sure. Just be aware of the class of tenants that you will be renting to. I would also have a few feeler questions to ask them to see how well versed they are on the laws etc.. Because a tenant that knows how to play the system most likely will. At that point the investment becomes an expense which is the exact opposite of your goal. I say look outside NYC since their are great deals elsewhere. Thats my opinion.

Best of luck!

3 Reply

Malkia Ra

Rental Property Investor · Prince George's County, MD · Member since 2022 · 177 posts · 187 votes

3y

I can't stress enough how having high application/screening standards (and a solid pre-screening method) will often deter bad tenants. In my experience, bad tenants LOVE landlords who (1.) aren't strict and consistent across the board with their screening parameters, (2.) fall for excuses, like their unfortunate bad luck/life story, or superficial things, like how well they dress or speak, etc., and (3.) choose to rent quickly to the first person with $$$, rather than take their time to select the most qualified candidate even if it means having a lengthy vacancy.

If you choose to self manage, you will need to know the landlord tenant laws in whatever jurisdiction you choose to invest, and have the backbone for this; otherwise, research and hire a top-notch management company to do this for you.

I personally choose to self manage (small portfolio) and keep a stellar eviction attorney on retainer for all the reasons @Greg Scott mentioned.

Good luck!

2 Reply

Joe Jor

Westchester, NY · Member since 2018 · 115 posts · 52 votes

3y

Quote from @Jazmin German:

Thanks for asking these questions! Great answers as well.

I too currently have the same questions and concerns about investing in NY!

I am currently looking for my first multi-family property to house hack in the Bronx, Westchester county or maybe CT.

My biggest concerns is dealing with bad tenants in a tenant friendly state plus evictions/courts.

I try to network with real estate investors in this market and attend real estate networking events to hear how investors handle this. The main advice I commonly hear and try to keep in mind is what @Nate Monson offered with #3. Have a strict process for screening tenants.

I like to think that if you can invest/handle NY you can invest/handle anywhere.

It boils down to screening tenants, especially in NY. Having good screen criteria will reduce the chance you end up with professional tenants.

Joe

2 Reply

Edwin De leon

OP

Investor · bronx, NY · Member since 2008 · 265 posts · 42 votes

3y

Quote from @Jazmin German:

@Edwin De leon

I live in the Bronx too and I work in Manhattan so I'm limited to finding a house hack that can only be an hour/hour in half out from Manhattan. I definitely don't think I will be able to find a deal in the Bronx starting off. That's why my focus is primarily Yonkers, Westchester county area which my mentor currently lives/invests in. There's still parts that are extremely expensive but hopefully something comes soon through house hacking. I only attend a networking event in Yonkers. I find that most of the people attending are investors who are currently investing in Westchester county, upstate and out of state like CT,PA and other states rather than anywhere in NYC. I think its a good place to start networking then you can work your way to the other states through connections from the events here.

My realtor that I just started working with is also licensed in CT and he has presented with some properties in CT that are about an hour and a half into Manhattan on the Metronorth. But from my experience these networking events in Yonkers are really worth it.

Thank you, for now I would like to start with yonkers events I am 10 minutes from Yonkers border by car so very close can you give me a link to the real estate investors networking event page, site, phone number etc thank you. I am open to travel further I am officially retired now so have time to travel further I am going to house hack as well but will keep my apartment in bronx, plan to live in property for 1 year then move out and rent it out so get 2 incomes from property

1 Reply

Jon A.

Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2022 · 158 posts · 118 votes

3y

Quote from @Edwin De leon:

Quote from @Jazmin German:

Thanks for asking these questions! Great answers as well.

I too currently have the same questions and concerns about investing in NY!

I am currently looking for my first multi-family property to house hack in the Bronx, Westchester county or maybe CT.

My biggest concerns is dealing with bad tenants in a tenant friendly state plus evictions/courts.

I try to network with real estate investors in this market and attend real estate networking events to hear how investors handle this. The main advice I commonly hear and try to keep in mind is what @Nate Monson offered with #3. Have a strict process for screening tenants.

I like to think that if you can invest/handle NY you can invest/handle anywhere.

Hi Jazmin, I am from the Bronx, properties are super high here in NYC so not ready for Bronx property yet. The biggest takeaway from this post and responses, is learn how to vet prospective tenants correctly to minimize placing a bad tenant in the 1st place, the only way I will invest in Upstate NY is if I find a super hot deal with built in equity. I will for now focus more on CT and PA once I get more experience I may be willing to try NYC due to appreciation rates you get in NYC, hummm if I were to find a super hot deal in NYC .... who knows I may take the bite with that said maybe I should also look at NYC but the prices are super high which means it will place a squeeze on my pension check :( ........ QUESTION....? what areas are you attending Real Estate Networking Events .... I am thinking of attending CT or PA vs nyc what is your thoughts on this on why I should consider looking at networking events in NYC or westcheter county

You might consider NJ. You can find cheaper properties in places like Jersey City or Newark and you can self -manage. These areas will likely have more appreciation as well. NJ is no better with landlord-tenant laws but, as others said, screen well and sleep well.

2 Reply

Jon A.

Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2022 · 158 posts · 118 votes

3y

Quote from @Trevor Naumann: