Tennant Suing for Deposit (TX)

General Landlording & Rental Properties

Tennant Suing for Deposit (TX)

Member since 2023 · 6 posts · 4 votes

Tennant of 2 years did final walk-through with landlord in person, noted various issues like fridge/oven/microwave cleaning & one missing garage key. Some burnt out light bulbs, dirty unchanged air filter, dust/hair on windowsills, one bedroom door lose, and missing undercounter light cap cover.

Landlord does cleaning, repairs, painting, replacing light bulbs/air filters/keys, etc. Spends about $1500 to make-ready for next tennant.

Tennant is having disagreements with landlord over deductions of deposit. Original deposit was $1800, of which $340 was returned. Took just over 60 days for landlord to return deposit. Tennant reaches out complaining, as he was expecting $1000+, requesting at least half of deposit. Landlord offers an additional $250. Tennant is not happy, does research and finds that because it's over 30 days, Texas law states he could be owed 3x deposit + legal fees. Tennant sends demand letter for 2x deposit threatening to sue in small claims. Landlord is now offering an additional $700, which is what the tenant originally requested, but tenant is refusing and now wants minimum full deposit back.

What should the landlord do in this situation?

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Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 667 posts · 587 votes

2y

@Jack Wang The landlord should have known the deposit return laws of his state because the tenant could very well win treble damages now. Of course the tenant is going to take this all the way as he stands to make a lot of money from the landlords mistake. If the landlord wants to avoid court and a judgement against him, I would return the full deposit and call it a lesson learned. Then I would get very familiar with the laws of your state so you can avoid this mess in the future.

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Julie Hartman
Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 667 posts · 587 votes
2y
@Jack Wang The landlord should have known the deposit return laws of his state because the tenant could very well win treble damages now. Of course the tenant is going to take this all the way as he stands to make a lot of money from the landlords mistake. If the landlord wants to avoid court and a judgement against him, I would return the full deposit and call it a lesson learned. Then I would get very familiar with the laws of your state so you can avoid this mess in the future.
13 Reply
Jack Wang
OP
Member since 2023 · 6 posts · 4 votes
2y
Quote from @Julie Hartman:

@Jack Wang The landlord should have known the deposit return laws of his state because the tenant could very well win treble damages now. Of course the tenant is going to take this all the way as he stands to make a lot of money from the landlords mistake. If the landlord wants to avoid court and a judgement against him, I would return the full deposit and call it a lesson learned. Then I would get very familiar with the laws of your state so you can avoid this mess in the future.

There's no chance the judge would rule in this case for the landlord to return deposit less itemized deductions with receipts? Even the tenant agreed that there are reasonable deductions like for the garage key.
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Kevin Sobilo
Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
@Jack Wang, keep negotiating. Sounds like the tenant was appropriately aggrieved to begin with since those petty items should not have totaled nearly that much to remedy.
If you can't negotiate an agreement, I would return deposit money in the amount I thought was fair based on these further discussions ($700) because then the tenant needs to decide if they want to file in court and potentially lose the court filing fees in addition to wasting their time.
4 Reply
Jack Wang
OP
Member since 2023 · 6 posts · 4 votes
2y
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

@Jack Wang, keep negotiating. Sounds like the tenant was appropriately aggrieved to begin with since those petty items should not have totaled nearly that much to remedy.
If you can't negotiate an agreement, I would return deposit money in the amount I thought was fair based on these further discussions ($700) because then the tenant needs to decide if they want to file in court and potentially lose the court filing fees in addition to wasting their time.

Will returning the $700 even if our negotiations on the exact amount fail reduce or eliminate the possibility that the judge decides on 3x the deposit as punitive damages? What if the tenant refuses the $700?
1 Reply
Kevin Sobilo
Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
@Jack Wang, the potential 3x deposit issue is probably solely dependent on when the landlord initially sent the tenant the itemized deductions and the check for the remaining deposit. If that was after 30 days then the 3x deposit might still be a possibility. I'm not sure.
However, if you have paid/tried to pay that extra $700 and the magistrate believes that is all you owe the tenant then the tenant should not win a judgement in my opinion because the landlord had tried to pay everything due before the case was even filed. Even if a tenant things they are owed more they have to weigh whether its worth the risk of filing in court at that point.
0 Reply
Patricia Steiner
Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
The landlord is wrong...Go back to the list of 'deficiencies...' These add up to a whole lot of not much. After two years, repainting is normally considered normal wear and tear; a landlord isn't entitled to a newly painted unit upon tenant departure. And, even if it were beyond 'normal,' the landlord is only entitled to a depreciated value for repainting - not the full cost of it. The landlord has over-stepped. Take a look at the following to determine what is a legal offset and what is ordinary wear and tear:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/chart-cleaning-repai...
And, in most states, a landlord has 15 days to return a security deposit - or 30 days if an offset will result. My recommendation to this landlord is to deduct a cleaning fee and return everything else to the tenant immediately. And, as soon as that is done, educate himself tenant/landlord laws pertaining to security deposit returns and offsets.
Hard to overcome stupid...the law isn't on your side here. Make it right.

5 Reply
Tim Miller
Rental Property Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 378 posts · 382 votes
2y
The only thing you have here is cleaning and a garage key. $120 an hour for cleaning times how many hours and a garage key. That's all you have?! All this took 60 days???
When a tenant leaves, we have an estimate with our first walk through. We send this to the tenant stating, here's your estimate. We'll let you know if it goes over. Now if we go past Maryland 45 day requirement. We are legally protected because we provided the estimate.
Time to turn this property over to a PM or else you're taking a chance of losing the shirt off your back.
0 Reply
Jack Wang
OP
Member since 2023 · 6 posts · 4 votes
2y
Quote from @Patricia Steiner:

The landlord is wrong...Go back to the list of 'deficiencies...' These add up to a whole lot of not much. After two years, repainting is normally considered normal wear and tear; a landlord isn't entitled to a newly painted unit upon tenant departure. And, even if it were beyond 'normal,' the landlord is only entitled to a depreciated value for repainting - not the full cost of it. The landlord has over-stepped. Take a look at the following to determine what is a legal offset and what is ordinary wear and tear:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/chart-cleaning-repai...
And, in most states, a landlord has 15 days to return a security deposit - or 30 days if an offset will result. My recommendation to this landlord is to deduct a cleaning fee and return everything else to the tenant immediately. And, as soon as that is done, educate himself tenant/landlord laws pertaining to security deposit returns and offsets.
Hard to overcome stupid...the law isn't on your side here. Make it right.

Light bulbs and changing the air filter are the tenant's responsibility in the lease. A lot were missing or burned out. Changing these items takes time, so hours were included in the cost.
What about paint damage on one spot requiring repainting of the whole room to color match?
0 Reply
Greg H.Pro Member
Moderator
Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
So returning the remaining deposit/accounting is +-60 days may or may not be an issue. Texas law requires it to be done within 30 days of vacating AND providing a forwarding address. The 30 day clock in Texas does not begin until the forwarding address is provided.
$1500 seems on the high side for the items listed but if the landlord can defend it with receipts and such they should be ok
So the question is when was the forwarding address provided and was the remaining deposit returned within 30 days of that date? If it goes to small claims keep in mind that the judges are elected officials and not necessarily bound by precedent. In more liberal counties, tenant sob stories can work. I would try to settle
1 Reply
Jack Wang
OP
Member since 2023 · 6 posts · 4 votes
2y
Quote from @Tim Miller:

The only thing you have here is cleaning and a garage key. $120 an hour for cleaning times how many hours and a garage key. That's all you have?! All this took 60 days???
When a tenant leaves, we have an estimate with our first walk through. We send this to the tenant stating, here's your estimate. We'll let you know if it goes over. Now if we go past Maryland 45 day requirement. We are legally protected because we provided the estimate.
Time to turn this property over to a PM or else you're taking a chance of losing the shirt off your back.

A lot of things that seem minor like light bulbs and air filters can add up, especially when you include the hourly cost of labor. Plus, things that seem minor to fix, like a door that's loose can take a long time. Adding up each item is how the final deduction was obtained.
0 Reply
Jack Wang
OP
Member since 2023 · 6 posts · 4 votes
2y
Quote from @Greg H.:

So returning the remaining deposit/accounting is +-60 days may or may not be an issue. Texas law requires it to be done within 30 days of vacating AND providing a forwarding address. The 30 day clock in Texas does not begin until the forwarding address is provided.
$1500 seems on the high side for the items listed but if the landlord can defend it with receipts and such they should be ok
So the question is when was the forwarding address provided and was the remaining deposit returned within 30 days of that date? If it goes to small claims keep in mind that the judges are elected officials and not necessarily bound by precedent. In more liberal counties, tenant sob stories can work. I would try to settle

The forwarding address was provided about 15 days in, so the 30 day limit was only exceeded by about 15 days. Would a judge consider this excessive?
What about items that the landlord fixed himself, and estimated labor costs based upon typical handman rates?
0 Reply
Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2022 · 125 posts · 124 votes
2y
Quote from @Jack Wang:

A lot of things that seem minor like light bulbs and air filters can add up, especially when you include the hourly cost of labor. Plus, things that seem minor to fix, like a door that's loose can take a long time. Adding up each item is how the final deduction was obtained.

How many hours does it take to change a few lightbulbs and an air filter? Surely not 60 days, that is on the landlord for taking so long. If I were in this situation, I'd offer the tenant back their full security deposit and be done with it. Not worth the headache and chance of having to pay even more plus court fees. Consider it a $1500 lesson learned.

2 Reply
Greg H.Pro Member
Moderator
Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jack Wang:

Quote from @Greg H.:

So returning the remaining deposit/accounting is +-60 days may or may not be an issue. Texas law requires it to be done within 30 days of vacating AND providing a forwarding address. The 30 day clock in Texas does not begin until the forwarding address is provided.
$1500 seems on the high side for the items listed but if the landlord can defend it with receipts and such they should be ok
So the question is when was the forwarding address provided and was the remaining deposit returned within 30 days of that date? If it goes to small claims keep in mind that the judges are elected officials and not necessarily bound by precedent. In more liberal counties, tenant sob stories can work. I would try to settle

The forwarding address was provided about 15 days in, so the 30 day limit was only exceeded by about 15 days. Would a judge consider this excessive?
What about items that the landlord fixed himself, and estimated labor costs based upon typical handman rates?

Yes. The law is clear in this regard and you could/should be liable for 3x the deposit with no deductions. Most JPs I have seen do not allow deductions for landlord labor and they allow actual costs. Settle this and consider it a learning experience
While most judgments are never collected in Texas, this one will as it will attach to your rental property as it is not exempt. Again.......settle
0 Reply
Matt Devincenzo
Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jack Wang:

You don't get to deduct labor savings in any State that I am aware of. You either deduct actual costs you pay someone, or you do it yourself and then are essentially doing the work for free and only deduct the cost of materials. Also deducting labor likely has exacerbated the damage to the tenant since the list of items could have been completed by a handyman within a week, but LL took longer to complete depriving tenant of the security deposit being returned in a timely manner.
1 Reply
Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
2y
If its over 30 days, you owe 3x the deposit. That simple. If the tenant is willing to take less, then great. Also in the future, you can not deduct for your own labor, and regular wear and tear.
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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
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Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2y
@Jack Wang
Honestly I was shocked when I heard you spent $1500 on paint / light bulbs as that sounds more like wear and tear not damage. I would not let this go to court and give them what they want to make it go away.
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Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

@Jack Wang, Sounds like the tenant was appropriately aggrieved to begin with since those petty items should not have totaled nearly that much to remedy.

Exactly. Way too much and way too long.

This kind of garbage is why I never referred to myself as a landlord. I hope the tenants fights and wins at least 2x in damages.
0 Reply
Justin Reagan
Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2022 · 18 posts · 13 votes
2y
It's important to note the expenses that are incurred due to the damage directly caused by the tenant. The problems noted sound a lot cheaper to resolve than $1460.The landlord spent $1500 turning over the unit, but all of those costs are not able to be passed onto the previous tenant. I would return full deposit if I were the landlord and learn this lesson.
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V.G JasonPro Member
Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
This is why you do not self manage. All those 8-10%/mo of savings gone.
1 Reply
Julie Hartman
Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 667 posts · 587 votes
2y
Quote from @Jack Wang:

Quote from @Julie Hartman:

@Jack Wang The landlord should have known the deposit return laws of his state because the tenant could very well win treble damages now. Of course the tenant is going to take this all the way as he stands to make a lot of money from the landlords mistake. If the landlord wants to avoid court and a judgement against him, I would return the full deposit and call it a lesson learned. Then I would get very familiar with the laws of your state so you can avoid this mess in the future.

There's no chance the judge would rule in this case for the landlord to return deposit less itemized deductions with receipts? Even the tenant agreed that there are reasonable deductions like for the garage key.
It depends on your appetite for risk. Do you really want to take that gamble in court? Do a few light bulbs and a garage key add up to $1500? If you fight this, it may turn into a $5400 loss for you. Maybe in TX the judges are more landlord friendly but given the deposit should have been handled within the time allowed by law, I doubt you would get the judgement in this case. There was no reason the deposit should have been held over 60 days. Most states require it be returned within 30 days unless otherwise stated in the lease and even then never more than 60 days. The tenant may be agreeing to some charges now but as soon as he educates himself, he'll quickly figure out that he may walk away with 3x his original deposit. I would strongly encourage you to hire a property manager going forward.
1 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
2y
The landlord should have known the law and the deposit should not have taken 60 days to be returned given the list of items that needed to be dealt with. Give them the deposit and write it up to a learning experience.
0 Reply
Jason Smith
Member since 2021 · 109 posts · 130 votes
2y
@Jack Wang "The landlord is not obligated to return a tenant's security deposit or give the tenant a written description of damages and charges until the tenant gives the landlord a written statement of the tenant's forwarding address for the purpose of refunding the security deposit." - Texas rules. If the demand letter was the first time they gave you their forwarding address than you have another 30 days to refund the money.
I would give the full deposit back, given your description I would have never withheld anything. They can sue for $100 plus 3 times the wrongfully withheld amount, plus lawyer fees. The deductions sounds like wear and tear, a slight inconvenience with light bulbs (maybe a $100 handyman call) and some over-looked cleaning (maybe $350). Can't imagine anyone withholding more than $500.
0 Reply
Roger Devore
Investor · Kokomo, IN · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 11 votes
2y
I would seek legal guidance which is always well spent. Then handle it accordingly. Whatever the outcome make sure it’s properly documented. Then I do an overview of lesson learned and change/update/implement processes as needed.
0 Reply
Timothy Howdeshell
Investor · Fresno, CA · Member since 2016 · 222 posts · 237 votes
2y
Quote from @Jack Wang:

Tennant of 2 years did final walk-through with landlord in person, noted various issues like fridge/oven/microwave cleaning & one missing garage key. Some burnt out light bulbs, dirty unchanged air filter, dust/hair on windowsills, one bedroom door lose, and missing undercounter light cap cover.

Landlord does cleaning, repairs, painting, replacing light bulbs/air filters/keys, etc. Spends about $1500 to make-ready for next tennant.

Tennant is having disagreements with landlord over deductions of deposit. Original deposit was $1800, of which $340 was returned. Took just over 60 days for landlord to return deposit. Tennant reaches out complaining, as he was expecting $1000+, requesting at least half of deposit. Landlord offers an additional $250. Tennant is not happy, does research and finds that because it's over 30 days, Texas law states he could be owed 3x deposit + legal fees. Tennant sends demand letter for 2x deposit threatening to sue in small claims. Landlord is now offering an additional $700, which is what the tenant originally requested, but tenant is refusing and now wants minimum full deposit back.

What should the landlord do in this situation?
If those are indeed the actual laws on the books or the property is located, then I don't see where the confusion is. The tenant is legally owed what is written which is 3x the deposits plus legal fees. At this point I would pay what the tenant is asking and take this as a learning lesson for future tenants to make sure that you meet the deadlines. Sometimes in real estate you just need to run a tight ship and this is one of those times.

is this just hypothetical though? Or why is the landlord being put into third person? By a landlord? Do you mean property manager? If that is the case then I would definitely push these expenses on to the property manager and not pay them out of the owners funds. This is the property managers responsibility to know the laws and to follow them and they should bear the responsibility for not doing so.

0 Reply
Robert Eyers
Member since 2023 · 1 post · 0 votes
2y
@jack wang ... I'm here in Austin and I suspect I know both the tenant's attorney as well as the judge that will be hearing the case if it comes to that. Reach out to me if I can offer my personal experience.
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