Applicant refuses to give out SSN before signing Lease

Denver, Colorado
General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Applicant refuses to give out SSN before signing Lease

Cindy B.
Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes

I have had 2 incidents recently that potential Tenant refuse to give out SSN before signing Lease. Rental property is minimal $750k assess, Landlord feels more comfortable to have Tenant SSNs on file to protect themselves.

What would you do in this situation if you are a landlord? 

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Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Cindy B.:

I have had 2 incidents recently that potential Tenant refuse to give out SSN before signing Lease. Rental property is minimal $750k assess, Landlord feels more comfortable to have Tenant SSNs on file to protect themselves.

What would you do in this situation if you are a landlord? 

Move on, NOBODY gets in without a BG check
HIRE A PM CO, PLEASE , 
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  • Julie Hartman
    Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 667 posts · 587 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Steve K.:
    Quote from @Julie Hartman:

    @Cindy B. If your rental is in Denver, I would strongly encourage you to stop using Zillow to screen your applicants. The laws have changed and if you get a section 8 prospect (which you must accept), landlords are not permitted to do a credit check on them. Zillow and other large screeners are not able to piece-meal the background screening information to keep landlords in compliance. With that said, I agree with the others that if they don't want thier SSN collected, then I would send them down the road. 

    This comment makes it sound like everyone has to accept every section 8 tenant now, which is not true. Source of income is now a protected status in the fair housing act, meaning you can’t deny because the applicant plans to use housing vouchers to pay rent, but that doesn’t mean you have to rent to them. You can still deny them for other (legal) reasons that they don’t meet your criteria, or go with a more qualified applicant instead. Also many landlords are exempt from the source of income rule such as if you’re self managing/ not using a broker, live in the property, have less than 5 rentals, etc. People should know the law and whether or not it even applies to them before jumping to conclusions. 
    I understand the law. I said we must accept a section 8 prospect, I didn't say we must accept a section 8 tenant. Those are very different things. However, for those who don't know the difference, thank you for pointing it out.
    1Reply
  • James Hamling
    Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Adam Martin:
    Quote from @Bob S.:
    Quote from @Cindy B.:

    We already have a BG check from Zillow, just wanted SSN on file to protect ourselves 


     HOW do you run a BG check without a SS # ?

    Zillow and Rentprep are the ones I have used but I'm sure most of them are this way.  The tenant fills out their information online including their SSN for the company to run the check however as a landlord you do not get the SSN from the screening company just the background check.  I don't have the SSN from any of my tenants due to this but I do have a copy of their Drivers License number which I feel is good enough.  I'm curious though from someone who has experience needing to collect is the SSN more helpful than the Drivers License number.  From my understanding if you do have their SSN there are extra safeguards you need to keep them safe but I barely looked into it.  

    I get the SS# WITH my background check from my 3rd party screener EVERY-TIME. I also get any flag's/alert's for potential fraud in SS# used in application. This is why you MUST have SS# used on app, because of fraud. 

    So when there is a flag or something is off, I require they submit a pic of the actual SS card to confirm correct identity/use of SS#. I have caught fraud's with this, and actually found some were legit but someone else had been using/stolen there identity and able to alert an applicant to such on there report. 

    If a screener won't forward the SS# in app, I'd require they insure all applicant's against any fraud and if not, send it or fired and working with a better BG screener. 

    1Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    I think its reasonable of them to be very wary of you having their social security number for "extra protection". It might provide it for you, but it definitely heightens their risk and identity theft is a growing concern. Have you provided to them how you plan to safeguard that information? Do you use VPN for your communications with sensitive data? Whats your security software? If you weren't you would you think your data was secure?

    If they asked you for your social security number for extra protection if something goes wrong how comfortable would you be with them having that info?

    They didn't balk at the background check, so it doesn't feel like a red flag, necessarily. There are better options than zillow. And I think the new standard is the third party check without providing SS # independent landlords.

    Did you verify the self employment and the income to your satisfaction? Are there references? 
    All this said, even the #$Ying cable companies demand your social :) Don't rent to them if you feel uncomfortable but this would probably happen again.
    0Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    good counterpoint by @James Hamling 

    I would definitely think though about how it feels on the other end. I bet you solve most of this by a quick boilerplate paragraph on the app about how you keep the data secure

    0Reply
  • James Hamling
    Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

    good counterpoint by @James Hamling 

    I would definitely think though about how it feels on the other end. I bet you solve most of this by a quick boilerplate paragraph on the app about how you keep the data secure


    I wouldn't even do that, it conveys liability which most can't assure. I have secured server service for data protection and it does not come free, most do not purchase such. 

    I would hold the screener vendor accountable for such. They need to be sending the info through, if not, change vendor, or have them eat the liability there conveying. 

    0Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @James Hamling doubt you would be able to hold the vendor accountable in any practical sense. And if you can't assure the liability aren't they justified in their concern? I think this is a more common objection among higher income applicants who are more vulnerable to and aware of data sensitivity issues. I live nestled in a high tech area with friends who work in data security and its a common question/concern so it doesn't trigger undue alarm.

    Good argument for a bonded/insured PM in providing a layer of protection for both tenant and landlord

    0Reply
  • Adam Martin
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @James Hamling:
    Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

    good counterpoint by @James Hamling 

    I would definitely think though about how it feels on the other end. I bet you solve most of this by a quick boilerplate paragraph on the app about how you keep the data secure


    I wouldn't even do that, it conveys liability which most can't assure. I have secured server service for data protection and it does not come free, most do not purchase such. 

    I would hold the screener vendor accountable for such. They need to be sending the info through, if not, change vendor, or have them eat the liability there conveying. 


     The more I think of it the more sure I am that I probably should be requiring it going forward.  Do you mind sharing the screening service you use that provides it for you.  

    0Reply
  • James Hamling
    Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

    @James Hamling doubt you would be able to hold the vendor accountable in any practical sense. And if you can't assure the liability aren't they justified in their concern? I think this is a more common objection among higher income applicants who are more vulnerable to and aware of data sensitivity issues. I live nestled in a high tech area with friends who work in data security and its a common question/concern so it doesn't trigger undue alarm.

    Good argument for a bonded/insured PM in providing a layer of protection for both tenant and landlord


    Talking specific to just data security. 

    Anyone self-managing properties is most likely in some level of significant risk of data security breach. As I have never seen a self-managing person using a secured server service on e-mail security, encryption etc.. So if there using a vulnerable e-mail, everything is at risk; cloud drives, bank account's credit card's, everything. 

    Because once a hacker can breach there e-mail, a history search probably brings up those associated account's. And than they can password reset, and with far too few without double security protocol's in place, pow, done deal. 

    So reality of landscape is the vast majority of self-managing persons are flying without a parachute already. One hack away from calamity. 

    A SS# itself, alone, is worthless and can't do anything. Records with such are regularly hacked. Every CC one get's requires SS# does it not? And they've all been hacked, many several times. So paranoia over giving a landlord one's SS# is unfounded. It's no different than any other financial application, all require SS#. Amex or Visa will not take Credit Karma's "word" on it that SS# was verified, will they? No different. 

    1Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    Simple solution.....application denied.

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    1Reply
  • James Hamling
    Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Adam Martin:
    Quote from @James Hamling:
    Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

    good counterpoint by @James Hamling 

    I would definitely think though about how it feels on the other end. I bet you solve most of this by a quick boilerplate paragraph on the app about how you keep the data secure


    I wouldn't even do that, it conveys liability which most can't assure. I have secured server service for data protection and it does not come free, most do not purchase such. 

    I would hold the screener vendor accountable for such. They need to be sending the info through, if not, change vendor, or have them eat the liability there conveying. 


     The more I think of it the more sure I am that I probably should be requiring it going forward.  Do you mind sharing the screening service you use that provides it for you.  


     Rental History Reports

    0Reply
  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    2y

    Tenant must submit to credit, criminal, and background check to live in my properties.

    Tenant applicant refuses to provide SSN, then they cannot continue with the application process. 

    Podcast Guest on Show #223
    BiggerPockets
    3Reply
  • Cindy B.
    OP
    Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Julie Hartman:

    @Cindy B. If your rental is in Denver, I would strongly encourage you to stop using Zillow to screen your applicants. The laws have changed and if you get a section 8 prospect (which you must accept), landlords are not permitted to do a credit check on them. Zillow and other large screeners are not able to piece-meal the background screening information to keep landlords in compliance. With that said, I agree with the others that if they don't want thier SSN collected, then I would send them down the road. 

    Thanks for sharing that


    0Reply
  • Cindy B.
    OP
    Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    @Cindy B.

    How else can you run background check?

    Also if they won't give you required info find a other qualified tenant.


     not necessarily  need SSN to get a BG check...

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Cindy B.:

    I have had 2 incidents recently that potential Tenant refuse to give out SSN before signing Lease. Rental property is minimal $750k assess, Landlord feels more comfortable to have Tenant SSNs on file to protect themselves.

    What would you do in this situation if you are a landlord? 


     Decline applicant and move on to the next.

    2Reply
  • Sally FairchildPro Member
    Investor · Newport Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 106 posts · 84 votes
    2y

    @Cindy B.

    I'd move on. They are setting the tone for future transactions. I don't need that kind of grief. Move on to folks that will comply to my requests and requirements.

    3Reply
  • Kelly Sennholz
    Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 292 posts · 164 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Julie Hartman:
    Quote from @Jason Allen:
    Quote from @Julie Hartman:

    @Cindy B. If your rental is in Denver, I would strongly encourage you to stop using Zillow to screen your applicants. The laws have changed and if you get a section 8 prospect (which you must accept), landlords are not permitted to do a credit check on them. Zillow and other large screeners are not able to piece-meal the background screening information to keep landlords in compliance. With that said, I agree with the others that if they don't want their SSN collected, then I would send them down the road. 


     WTF kind of non-sense is that? It's illegal to run a credit check on someone that you're going to turn over an asset worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to? Are you allowed to sue them when they destroy it (because you couldn't check if they had had done that before)? Is this actually true?

    Yep! It's insane. Even our attorneys think so and they think this is just the tip of the iceberg.
    ABSOLUTELY INSANE, 
    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kelly Sennholz:
    Quote from @Julie Hartman:
    Quote from @Jason Allen:
    Quote from @Julie Hartman:

    @Cindy B. If your rental is in Denver, I would strongly encourage you to stop using Zillow to screen your applicants. The laws have changed and if you get a section 8 prospect (which you must accept), landlords are not permitted to do a credit check on them. Zillow and other large screeners are not able to piece-meal the background screening information to keep landlords in compliance. With that said, I agree with the others that if they don't want their SSN collected, then I would send them down the road. 


     WTF kind of non-sense is that? It's illegal to run a credit check on someone that you're going to turn over an asset worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to? Are you allowed to sue them when they destroy it (because you couldn't check if they had had done that before)? Is this actually true?

    Yep! It's insane. Even our attorneys think so and they think this is just the tip of the iceberg.
    ABSOLUTELY INSANE, 

     Denver is just a few small steps behind being the next Portland or California. Couple years, it's gonna be right there.

    1Reply
  • Cindy B.
    OP
    Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sally Fairchild:

    @Cindy B.

    I'd move on. They are setting the tone for future transactions. I don't need that kind of grief. Move on to folks that will comply to my requests and requirements.


     That makes sense 

    0Reply
  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Say next and move on

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    2Reply
  • Cindy B.
    OP
    Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sally Fairchild:

    @Cindy B.

    I'd move on. They are setting the tone for future transactions. I don't need that kind of grief. Move on to folks that will comply to my requests and requirements.


    Makes sense

    0Reply
  • Cindy B.
    OP
    Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

    I think its reasonable of them to be very wary of you having their social security number for "extra protection". It might provide it for you, but it definitely heightens their risk and identity theft is a growing concern. Have you provided to them how you plan to safeguard that information? Do you use VPN for your communications with sensitive data? Whats your security software? If you weren't you would you think your data was secure?

    If they asked you for your social security number for extra protection if something goes wrong how comfortable would you be with them having that info?

    They didn't balk at the background check, so it doesn't feel like a red flag, necessarily. There are better options than zillow. And I think the new standard is the third party check without providing SS # independent landlords.

    Did you verify the self employment and the income to your satisfaction? Are there references? 
    All this said, even the #$Ying cable companies demand your social :) Don't rent to them if you feel uncomfortable but this would probably happen again.
    I did, we suggested a better way to give us the SSN and leave no trace anywhere else…..Well at this point it’s not the SSN we aren’t getting, we have been unable to verify the relocation employment, nor can we contact the current employer as we were told it is a delicates transaction, so I am done spending time on them
    2Reply
  • Cindy B.
    OP
    Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Steve K.:
    Quote from @Julie Hartman:

    @Cindy B. If your rental is in Denver, I would strongly encourage you to stop using Zillow to screen your applicants. The laws have changed and if you get a section 8 prospect (which you must accept), landlords are not permitted to do a credit check on them. Zillow and other large screeners are not able to piece-meal the background screening information to keep landlords in compliance. With that said, I agree with the others that if they don't want thier SSN collected, then I would send them down the road. 

    This comment makes it sound like everyone has to accept every section 8 tenant now, which is not true. Source of income is now a protected status in the fair housing act, meaning you can’t deny because the applicant plans to use housing vouchers to pay rent, but that doesn’t mean you have to rent to them. You can still deny them for other (legal) reasons that they don’t meet your criteria, or go with a more qualified applicant instead. Also many landlords are exempt from the source of income rule such as if you’re self managing/ not using a broker, live in the property, have less than 5 rentals, etc. People should know the law and whether or not it even applies to them before jumping to conclusions. 

     Thanks!!

    0Reply
  • Cindy B.
    OP
    Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Scott Trench:

    Tenant must submit to credit, criminal, and background check to live in my properties.

    Tenant applicant refuses to provide SSN, then they cannot continue with the application process. 


     It helps to know I am not alone

    0Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Cindy B.

    How do you do a background check without their social???

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    0Reply
  • Cindy B.
    OP
    Investor · Denver & South Metro · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Cindy B.

    How do you do a background check without their social???

    Through Zillow
    0Reply
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