Nail/Screw Holes in Walls
Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes
Nail/Screw Holes in Walls
Most Popular Reply
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
1yQuote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
Quote from @Bill B.:
I don’t know if it’s a new law but I was told by my PM at a recent move out it was now considered normal wear and tear and you couldn’t charge for it.
I assume any painter / handyman doing your turnover could do that kind of touch up in almost no time for almost no money.
Touch up is not issue. Trying to match the color that is already on the wall is just about impossible, even with left over paint from the initial painting. He tried to do patch work on this one wall with existing paint and it looked like a jigsaw puzzle :)
If you can't touch it up you're using the wrong kind of paint. Flat is easiest, eggshell next easiest as far as sheen. You don't need to use pure white - actually you can use any color, though lighter is easier - but you do need to use a paint brand and color that's not going to change. That generally means getting paint from someplace like Sherwin Williams and using one of their long-term colors. We use a color called Shoji White, which is kind of gray/beige white, has enough color that it can pop white trim but is light enough on the wall to match anything. Navajo White is another popular color. The bigger point is that if you use Walmart, Lowes or some other big box paint the base colors can and do change which will make touch-up difficult. Those stores go with whoever wins the cheapest contract. Case in point, years ago we used Olympic paints from Lowes, which were carried for a long time. Then Lowes phased out Olympic, and even with the paint code I couldn't get mixes that touched up. And if you're not already using the same paint color on all properties, you should start and you can thank me for this tip later. Using different colors was one of the biggest mistakes we ever made in the early days; tracking the colors even with a spreadsheet was a nightmare, as was keeping dozens of different touch up colors in the storehouse.
The other part of this: don't scuff or sand any more than you need to. Anything the size of a plastic wall anchor or smaller, you should be hitting it with lightweight spackle and use a damp sponge, not a sanding sponge, to take off the excess. That will prevent scuffing the paint making touch up necessary.
Finally: *DO NOT* let tenants attempt to fill holes or do touch up themselves. Many tenants are idiots and I'm surprised they can dress themselves in the morning. We have had tenants use everything from latex caulk to roofing cement to try to fill nail holes. One guy used white rubber cement, left in big blobs everywhere because he thought it just peeled off after he was done. We had to repaint the entire unit because the material he used left oil stains everywhere. In our move out sheet we specifically tell tenants not to fill holes or try to touch anything up.
Skyline Properties
46 Replies
- Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes1yOver your alarm suggestions here. Thank you very much. I don't have anything in my lease about nail holes so I'm going to add a section, specifically telling them not to fill the holes. I do use the same color in all my units. I have six of them. Up until recently I've been renting to medium term tenants, who never put anything up, so I never had this issue. You live and learn I suppose. That's why I'm here :)
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
Quote from @Bill B.:
I don’t know if it’s a new law but I was told by my PM at a recent move out it was now considered normal wear and tear and you couldn’t charge for it.
I assume any painter / handyman doing your turnover could do that kind of touch up in almost no time for almost no money.
Touch up is not issue. Trying to match the color that is already on the wall is just about impossible, even with left over paint from the initial painting. He tried to do patch work on this one wall with existing paint and it looked like a jigsaw puzzle :)
If you can't touch it up you're using the wrong kind of paint. Flat is easiest, eggshell next easiest as far as sheen. You don't need to use pure white - actually you can use any color, though lighter is easier - but you do need to use a paint brand and color that's not going to change. That generally means getting paint from someplace like Sherwin Williams and using one of their long-term colors. We use a color called Shoji White, which is kind of gray/beige white, has enough color that it can pop white trim but is light enough on the wall to match anything. Navajo White is another popular color. The bigger point is that if you use Walmart, Lowes or some other big box paint the base colors can and do change which will make touch-up difficult. Those stores go with whoever wins the cheapest contract. Case in point, years ago we used Olympic paints from Lowes, which were carried for a long time. Then Lowes phased out Olympic, and even with the paint code I couldn't get mixes that touched up. And if you're not already using the same paint color on all properties, you should start and you can thank me for this tip later. Using different colors was one of the biggest mistakes we ever made in the early days; tracking the colors even with a spreadsheet was a nightmare, as was keeping dozens of different touch up colors in the storehouse.
The other part of this: don't scuff or sand any more than you need to. Anything the size of a plastic wall anchor or smaller, you should be hitting it with lightweight spackle and use a damp sponge, not a sanding sponge, to take off the excess. That will prevent scuffing the paint making touch up necessary.
Finally: *DO NOT* let tenants attempt to fill holes or do touch up themselves. Many tenants are idiots and I'm surprised they can dress themselves in the morning. We have had tenants use everything from latex caulk to roofing cement to try to fill nail holes. One guy used white rubber cement, left in big blobs everywhere because he thought it just peeled off after he was done. We had to repaint the entire unit because the material he used left oil stains everywhere. In our move out sheet we specifically tell tenants not to fill holes or try to touch anything up.
- Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes1yThank you nathan. This is a nice comprehensive list. I'm going to definitely revise my lease to add details about holes in walls.
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Bill B.:
I was told by my PM at a recent move out it was now considered normal wear and tear and you couldn’t charge for it.
Normal wear and tear would be a few small nail holes for hanging artwork, a clock, etc. Mounting shelves, a TV, or other large items that requires screws, bolts, or anchors should be regulated by the landlord and charged to the tenant. The same goes for an excessive number of small holes, like a single wall with 40 nail holes. I've had many renters with kids that stapled posters to walls and left hundreds of tiny holes. Tenants should pay for that.
My lease considered normal to be a few items hung using 1" nails or smaller. We forbid TV mounts, shelves, or items that require bolts, anchors, screws, or large nails. We also do not allow the tenant to patch holes or touch up the paint, because they usually do a terrible job that takes longer and costs more to fix.
- Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes1y
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
We try to get ahead of the issue by preventing it in the first place.
We do a tenant orientation at the property when they sign the lease and go over the specifics, one of them is no modifications, no painting walls and ... nail holes.
We actually provide them with 2 packs of command strips and show them how to use them. We also tell them that we charge $25 per hole for TV mounts, shelves etc
I think that $10 up-front investment has reduced the number of issues by probably 80%.
Our walls are textured (sand textured in Milwaukee, orange peel textured in the western suburbs - yes, there is an actual dividing line), so we try to avoid the usual palm-sized patch and fill only the hole without making it bigger, so we can get away without texturing. And yes, you have to paint at least the whole wall, if not the whole room.
Like Dan, we have a standardized paint (white clay by Behr in eggshell, but SW will mix it NP)
Thank you for the suggestions Marcus. I have no experience with command strips. Are they easy to take off?
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes1y
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
We try to get ahead of the issue by preventing it in the first place.
We do a tenant orientation at the property when they sign the lease and go over the specifics, one of them is no modifications, no painting walls and ... nail holes.
We actually provide them with 2 packs of command strips and show them how to use them. We also tell them that we charge $25 per hole for TV mounts, shelves etc
I think that $10 up-front investment has reduced the number of issues by probably 80%.
Our walls are textured (sand textured in Milwaukee, orange peel textured in the western suburbs - yes, there is an actual dividing line), so we try to avoid the usual palm-sized patch and fill only the hole without making it bigger, so we can get away without texturing. And yes, you have to paint at least the whole wall, if not the whole room.
Like Dan, we have a standardized paint (white clay by Behr in eggshell, but SW will mix it NP)
Thank you for the suggestions Marcus. I have no experience with command strips. Are they easy to take off?
The only problem with command strips is if they are cheap knock off they almost always take the paper with it when you pull them down. If they are the 3M version and you are slow and careful on the pull off, they usually release but not always. Unless you supply the 3M ones I guarantee the tenants are going to use the Dollar Store ones that leave torn paper everywhere.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
We try to get ahead of the issue by preventing it in the first place.
We do a tenant orientation at the property when they sign the lease and go over the specifics, one of them is no modifications, no painting walls and ... nail holes.
We actually provide them with 2 packs of command strips and show them how to use them. We also tell them that we charge $25 per hole for TV mounts, shelves etc
I think that $10 up-front investment has reduced the number of issues by probably 80%.
Our walls are textured (sand textured in Milwaukee, orange peel textured in the western suburbs - yes, there is an actual dividing line), so we try to avoid the usual palm-sized patch and fill only the hole without making it bigger, so we can get away without texturing. And yes, you have to paint at least the whole wall, if not the whole room.
Like Dan, we have a standardized paint (white clay by Behr in eggshell, but SW will mix it NP)
Thank you for the suggestions Marcus. I have no experience with command strips. Are they easy to take off?
Yes they do. We use them at home now as well, my wife likes to redecorate.. The reason we supply a couple packs is to avoid the cheap knockoffs.
- Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes1y
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
We try to get ahead of the issue by preventing it in the first place.
We do a tenant orientation at the property when they sign the lease and go over the specifics, one of them is no modifications, no painting walls and ... nail holes.
We actually provide them with 2 packs of command strips and show them how to use them. We also tell them that we charge $25 per hole for TV mounts, shelves etc
I think that $10 up-front investment has reduced the number of issues by probably 80%.
Our walls are textured (sand textured in Milwaukee, orange peel textured in the western suburbs - yes, there is an actual dividing line), so we try to avoid the usual palm-sized patch and fill only the hole without making it bigger, so we can get away without texturing. And yes, you have to paint at least the whole wall, if not the whole room.
Like Dan, we have a standardized paint (white clay by Behr in eggshell, but SW will mix it NP)
Thank you for the suggestions Marcus. I have no experience with command strips. Are they easy to take off?
Yes they do. We use them at home now as well, my wife likes to redecorate.. The reason we supply a couple packs is to avoid the cheap knockoffs.
Gotcha. That seems like a good investment. I'm going to try them out. Thank you very much.
- Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes1y
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
We try to get ahead of the issue by preventing it in the first place.
We do a tenant orientation at the property when they sign the lease and go over the specifics, one of them is no modifications, no painting walls and ... nail holes.
We actually provide them with 2 packs of command strips and show them how to use them. We also tell them that we charge $25 per hole for TV mounts, shelves etc
I think that $10 up-front investment has reduced the number of issues by probably 80%.
Our walls are textured (sand textured in Milwaukee, orange peel textured in the western suburbs - yes, there is an actual dividing line), so we try to avoid the usual palm-sized patch and fill only the hole without making it bigger, so we can get away without texturing. And yes, you have to paint at least the whole wall, if not the whole room.
Like Dan, we have a standardized paint (white clay by Behr in eggshell, but SW will mix it NP)
Thank you for the suggestions Marcus. I have no experience with command strips. Are they easy to take off?
The only problem with command strips is if they are cheap knock off they almost always take the paper with it when you pull them down. If they are the 3M version and you are slow and careful on the pull off, they usually release but not always. Unless you supply the 3M ones I guarantee the tenants are going to use the Dollar Store ones that leave torn paper everywhere.
I think that's exactly what I'm going to do. That seems like a cheap investment. Thank you for your input.
- Property Manager · Downers Grove, IL · Member since 2012 · 99 posts · 40 votes1yKeep a cheat sheet for your property(ies) with color brand/codes for each room and common info needed such as appliance info, fridge opening HxW, etc...
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
How do you folks handle nail/screw holes in walls. Filling them in not an issue but I'm seeing some renters are using anchors. Additionally, trying to spot paint even a white wall with white paint doesn't work, let alone other colors. I don't want to have to paint an entire wall (multiplied by the number of walls that have had nails in them) every time a tenant moves out. Thank you for your input.
Paint should be standard sets of colors for all the properties you have.
Flat means hard to clean, repaint it all. I use eggshell on the walls, flat only on ceilings and high gloss on trim and windows. Flat is easiest to touch up but I'd rather wipe and touch up eggshell than usually repaint a whole wall due to dirty hands, etc. JMHO - Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes1y
Quote from @Paul Cijunelis:
Keep a cheat sheet for your property(ies) with color brand/codes for each room and common info needed such as appliance info, fridge opening HxW, etc...Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
How do you folks handle nail/screw holes in walls. Filling them in not an issue but I'm seeing some renters are using anchors. Additionally, trying to spot paint even a white wall with white paint doesn't work, let alone other colors. I don't want to have to paint an entire wall (multiplied by the number of walls that have had nails in them) every time a tenant moves out. Thank you for your input.
Paint should be standard sets of colors for all the properties you have.
Flat means hard to clean, repaint it all. I use eggshell on the walls, flat only on ceilings and high gloss on trim and windows. Flat is easiest to touch up but I'd rather wipe and touch up eggshell than usually repaint a whole wall due to dirty hands, etc. JMHOI use a similar approach to paint sheen. For me flat for ceilings only. Satin for most walls except for Kitchen and baths. Semigloss on woodwork, kitchens, baths, and inside closets.
- Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes1y
Quote from @Paul Cijunelis:
Keep a cheat sheet for your property(ies) with color brand/codes for each room and common info needed such as appliance info, fridge opening HxW, etc...Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
How do you folks handle nail/screw holes in walls. Filling them in not an issue but I'm seeing some renters are using anchors. Additionally, trying to spot paint even a white wall with white paint doesn't work, let alone other colors. I don't want to have to paint an entire wall (multiplied by the number of walls that have had nails in them) every time a tenant moves out. Thank you for your input.
Paint should be standard sets of colors for all the properties you have.
Flat means hard to clean, repaint it all. I use eggshell on the walls, flat only on ceilings and high gloss on trim and windows. Flat is easiest to touch up but I'd rather wipe and touch up eggshell than usually repaint a whole wall due to dirty hands, etc. JMHOThank you. This is along what I was thinking as well.
- Property Manager · Downers Grove, IL · Member since 2012 · 99 posts · 40 votes1y
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
- Property Manager · Downers Grove, IL · Member since 2012 · 99 posts · 40 votes1y
BP forum messed up my post. was going to say this:
I use eggshell for all of my own properties. Makes the wipe-off work for nearly everything. The semi is a bit too shiny but can work. I actually have some kitchen walls in semiG in my own home. Hardly noticeable. ES works fine though. - Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
This is exactly why you take a security deposit. Put it in the lease that any damage to walls will be taken from security deposit. They'll stop or you keep $ out of their deposit.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:
How do you folks handle nail/screw holes in walls. Filling them in not an issue but I'm seeing some renters are using anchors. Additionally, trying to spot paint even a white wall with white paint doesn't work, let alone other colors. I don't want to have to paint an entire wall (multiplied by the number of walls that have had nails in them) every time a tenant moves out. Thank you for your input.
I would patch the holes and paint the whole wall. If you use a neutral color you only have to use one coat most of the time. Although I do my own rentals so it doesn’t bother me to do it.
- Member since 2024 · 238 posts · 132 votes1y
We paint a wall that has been repaired. Anchors require repair. When a TV wall mount is on the wall we give the tenant the option of leaving the wall mount in place (assuming it is well located) or paying for the repair.
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
It should also be mentioned that you do not have to color match a wall if you are just repainting a single wall.....using a contrasting color actually looks like you meant to do it. I see a lot in sage for instance...
- Member since 2024 · 238 posts · 132 votes1yAnd, when matching to the original color, deviations in the new paint from the old are not discernible when the entire plane is painted.
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
It should also be mentioned that you do not have to color match a wall if you are just repainting a single wall.....using a contrasting color actually looks like you meant to do it. I see a lot in sage for instance...
- 1yMelanie ThomasBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · San Antonio · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 491 votes
Finding good painters is like hunting for a unicorn – it’s rare! And let’s face it, “touch-up” work often ends up looking more like a cheetah than a clean wall. This year, I’ve decided to focus on the tenant experience by painting entire walls, not just touching up! It’ll make life easier when it’s time to deduct from the deposit at lease end. The before photos will be much clearer for pointing out actual damage—no more trying to figure out what was a touch-up vs. real damage during security deposit itemization. Good luck & happy investing!
RentWerx Property Management4.73215 Reviews - Member since 2024 · 238 posts · 132 votes1yIf you put the paint brush on it, you paint the entire plane. Touching up is ok for your own childrens'' playroom.
And, with the introduction of 3M blue tape, painting can now be well done by a person with no skills at all. It is the lowest common denominator of the construction trades. What you can't find are drywall finishers which is actually a skill. - 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Melanie Thomas:
Finding good painters is like hunting for a unicorn – it’s rare! And let’s face it, “touch-up” work often ends up looking more like a cheetah than a clean wall. This year, I’ve decided to focus on the tenant experience by painting entire walls, not just touching up! It’ll make life easier when it’s time to deduct from the deposit at lease end. The before photos will be much clearer for pointing out actual damage—no more trying to figure out what was a touch-up vs. real damage during security deposit itemization. Good luck & happy investing!
Absolutely. I could never see the rationale in just touching up spots...it takes, what, another ten minutes to do the whole wall and get it looking great? mean, you already have all of the tools out, the paint can opened and stirred and the tarp spread out....
- Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes1y
This last tenant left a bunch of holes in just about every single wall in the entire apartments. They weren't big holes but they had to be filled and painted. I ended up painting the whole place. I was hoping to avoid doing that in the future. I've come up with a plan though. Thank you for your input.
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