Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2012 · 127 posts · 10 votes
I inherited lousy tenants in a property (year lease) who are threatening to sue me for a slip down the stairs. She didn't seem injured but yadayada had to go to the doctors and did xrays yadayada. Now they're saying subtly (but really not so subtly) that if I can do "something" for them they won't have to press charges, otherwise, they will. In other words they want free pay day.
I have insurance but don't want to deal with the trouble and any rate change it may cause. Should I offer them cash to be quiet? Free rent for 2 months? Nice improvements to the unit?
OR ... Should I threaten back very subtly that I can make things "less enjoyable" for them (and any ideas on that? Noise complaint warnings? No mercy with rent collection? Parking rules change?)?
I wouldn't pay anything. You attempting to be a good person or provide a nice gesture may be seen in court as an admittance of guilt. As in why would you pay anything if it wasn't your fault. ? If your state has an easy way to search court records I would see id they have a history of frivolous court filings. Have your attorney handle any issue that arises legally.
If you pay them they will probably want to get paid again. I would think about maybe paying them for a full waiver, that way you are actually paying for that issue and also moving forward until they leave you'd be covered.
Ethically, I'd say that if it is your building's fault, let the insurance handle it and pay the increase. If it's not the buildings fault, then you're sorry for their mishap and send them a get well card.
It's really not the buildings fault since there was a legal railing in place all along. Can I really have someone sign a full waiver for the remainder of their term?
What about paying them in a "store credit" to be used for renovations in their kitchen and bathroom? Or a a complimentary increase in their security deposit amount, to be released upon move out inspection?
Do you believe their complaint is well founded or not? Did you do anything that was negligent? Did you listen to them, really listen to them? Did you show concern and compassion? I worked for 14 years in a management position at a hospital, in risk management and in patient relations. When we received a complaint we would make sure we listened well and addressed all real concerns expeditiously. If a person threatened to sue for something unfounded, we calmly answered, "Do what you feel you need to do." Rarely did they. If they did, we let our insurance company handle it. That is what insurance companies do best and that is why we have insurance.
I am dying to hear what experienced landlords have to say...I am buying a property with stairs in each unit. How can we protect ourselves from these "I fell down- now pay me" threats?
I am dying to hear what experienced landlords have to say...I am buying a property with stairs in each unit. How can we protect ourselves from these "I fell down- now pay me" threats?
Ah! We were posting at the same time!
Do what you can to make your property as safe. Be aware of potential dangers and best practices. Do not do anything that could be considered negligent. Address needs as they arise in good faith. Maintain good insurance, both on the dwelling and with an umbrella policy for extra liability protection. Rise above threats by remaining polite, respectful, and calm. Real threats - pull all your resources together and address them. Idle threats - reason will the complainer if you can, if not, let it roll. Do not let people intimidate you and do not cave in to unscrupulous tactics. Most people just want to be heard.
It sounds to me like you're not at fault. My advice is simple. Ignore them.
If they persist, then with a smile, hand them the card of your attorney and instruct that any legal papers be sent to him/her. Then wish them a good day and walk away.
As always make sure your property is safe and that you are adequately insured.
I inherited lousy tenants in a property (year lease) who are threatening to sue me for a slip down the stairs. She didn't seem injured but yadayada had to go to the doctors and did xrays yadayada. Now they're saying subtly (but really not so subtly) that if I can do "something" for them they won't have to press charges, otherwise, they will. In other words they want free pay day.
I have insurance but don't want to deal with the trouble and any rate change it may cause. Should I offer them cash to be quiet? Free rent for 2 months? Nice improvements to the unit?
OR ... Should I threaten back very subtly that I can make things "less enjoyable" for them (and any ideas on that? Noise complaint warnings? No mercy with rent collection? Parking rules change?)?
Thanks!!
I'm as curious as the rest of the gang to know how are you liable in this incident? Did your PM mop the stairs and didn't leave the yellow caution sign out clearly visible from every angle and entry point? Was the banister loose? Maybe the steps were super dirty, oily and the tenant fell? I'm wondering why are you so eager to pay hush money if you're innocent. The burden of proof is on the tenant. If you are wrong then definitely pay up but if you aren't then stand your ground. Otherwise where does it end? You'll be paying them rent to occupy your property if you're not careful...my coin.
@Matt Liu You have my sympathy. These situations are so stressful.
#1. Document, Document, Document
If you have not been, this is the time to begin track all correspondence with them in written fashion, and take meticulous notes.
#2. Talk to your lawyer if you have not yet.
We have a similar situation right now with a troll trying to extort a payday. They have submitted at small-claims court and we have a trial date. Ultimately, I decided the safest approach was to be as distanced as possible when it comes to communication. I had a conversation with my lawyer to get the lay of the land, after which we decided together that we were not at fault and could make a strong case. I then gave permission for my lawyer to put the fear of god in them and take over all communications. Which he did with an amazing amount of professionalism. He clearly explained to them how the law plays into the situation and that we will ask for a judgment to have them reimburse legal preparation fees. The plaintiff has just replied Friday that they plan to dismiss ($1k in legal fees well spent).
#3. Chat it out with your insurance agent.
So I haven't gone this route, but I have a great relationship with my agent and often run scenarios by her. Your agent may not have a crystal ball, but they do know what usually happens and can give you a better understanding of how insurance would handle it as well as the impact on your fees.
We have a general liability policy at 1M / 2M for our software business. For years clients have requested 2M / 4M and we have fought back saying it was unnecessary due to the structure of our business (totally true). Today a substantial new client wouldn't budge, so I called insurance to find out what the damage was of upgrading. The quote: $7.02 and I feel like an idiot. 14 years of fighting with procurement departments because I had assumed it was a significant cost. Some times, the unknown bites us in the ***.
#4. Trade dollars for a departure?
If you need to settle, I'd consider mutually breaking the lease and aim for a departure on good terms. If you are going to spend the money, you probably don't want to keep dealing with them.
Let us all know how it pans out. Vote it up if this helps. =)
@Marcia Maynard So true, being polite and respectful go a long way in so many situations. As a mental health therapist, I understand the value of empathic listening. Allowing people to be heard doesn't cost us a thing, but making the time and effort to listen in early on may deter a tenant from making threats and hopefully foster a more respectful relationship. I have learned that most people whether it be a tenant or not, lash out because they don't feel valued.
I agree with others about not paying a dime or responding. Why is it your fault that they fell down the stairs?
What I would do, is next time you're there, fall on the bumper of their car. Make it look really fake and then diagnose yourself with something weird right in front of them and claim you want everything they have. Then call it even.
They probably watch Judge Judy or Maury Pvich all day and see all of the slip and fall commercials from dirty lawyers promising big paydays.
If you pay them anything, give them free rent, or a new parking space, they will just want more. They will tell all of their lowlife friends that they got freebies from their landlord and then think of a new scam. It's like feeding a stray cat. It will always come back for more.....
This isn't always a question about liability but personal injury. If someone gets hurt on your property, no fault of yours, you have insurance for it. Don't take it personally, if someone pursues a claim. Furthermore, don't waste your time trying to be claims adjuster and fraud detective. Let the insurance company do this for you.
I would not engage a lawyer. Insurance companies have this covered. Direct your tenant towards the insurance company.
Last but not least, insurance is for covering your butt. If you think you can settle this for $200, 60 day notice and a waiver for further claims, then do it.
I wouldn't pay anything. You attempting to be a good person or provide a nice gesture may be seen in court as an admittance of guilt. As in why would you pay anything if it wasn't your fault. ? If your state has an easy way to search court records I would see id they have a history of frivolous court filings. Have your attorney handle any issue that arises legally.
Not telling you what to do, of course . . . . many years ago I knew a woman who had lived a long, long time by cashing in on "slip & fall" claims. She "fell" in malls, grocery stores, discount stores, etc. & either got an insurance payout or a chunk of cash to drop the whole thing.
Do people fall & get hurt? Of course. Do people work the system, cheat & take advantage of others? Of course.
I fear that if your tenant gets rewarded for her actions, she'll just hit you up again. And again.
I wouldn't pay anything. As others have said, this is a matter for the insurance company. They'll determine soon enough if it's fraudulent.
An investor I know said he was once threatened with a personal injury lawsuit by a tenant. He was repairing the sidewalk in front of his property and had taped it off with yellow tape and cones. The tenant's kid removed the cones and tape, which a neighbor saw, rode his bike down the sidewalk and fell in the area. The parents threatened to sue. He ignored every letter they sent, including the one from their attorney. He told me that unless he received a court date, he would do nothing, because an attorney would only take a case if he thought he could win.
After one "scare" letter, he heard nothing more from the attorney. This was not a legal aid case, the tenants had jobs and would have had to pay the attorney if they lost, plus his legal fees.
Based on the info you provided, I would do: nothing. Ignore her. If/when she pursues this in court (seems unlikely, but always possible), have your insurance company sort it out.
Thank you so much. I think what I will do (to piece together a little bit of everyone's wonderful advice) is go to her with a piece of paper full of many detailed questions and a smile on my face. This way I am letting her be heard. I am also collecting and documenting details. And at the same time I am showing that it is not so easy to just "slip and get paid" - there is a process.
I collect all this information. Then I come back the next day and ask her to send a letter (certified mail) describing the answers to the same questions - and this will provide me with any discrepencies if her memory fails her.
Then I will say thank you very much for the info, I will process this and get back to you on what we can do.
Of course in reality I am just running her around and getting her to question herself. I will in reality get back to her saying that I can't pay anything but the insurance company will be able to review the details of her case if she would like. I will also have a calm and heart felt talk with her at that time (brief) that I am a good honest person and there is such a thing as karma. If she wants to be litigious - taking advantage of this and that - I could also "trip onto her old Honda." that is parked inappropriately on the grass - maybe . And let her take it from there.
If I were you, I wouldn't waste the time. I believe you should ignore it unless it actually turns into something. There is no need for you to do a single thing unless she actually files something against you. Who cares about "making her feel heard". You have better things to do than play this game with her. Go about your business. If she approaches you in person, simply say, "do what you feel you need to do". Do NOT talk in detail about anything to her.
Please ignore it. Don't give her a questionnaire. Depending how you word your questions, that itself could be used against you.
Also "accidentally tripping on her Honda" is not going to help.
Talking to her about how good a person you are and karma is not going to help.
None of that is professional either. Be professional.
I think you already feel a certain way towards this tenant due to the threats so at this point it may be hard for you to be genuine. Talking to the tenant as soon as the fall happened would have been nice but time has passed, sounds like you are bit pissed, so now you should avoid talking to her and let the insurance handle it if it gets that far.
I inherited lousy tenants in a property (year lease) who are threatening to sue me for a slip down the stairs. She didn't seem injured but yadayada had to go to the doctors and did xrays yadayada. Now they're saying subtly (but really not so subtly) that if I can do "something" for them they won't have to press charges, otherwise, they will. In other words they want free pay day.
I have insurance but don't want to deal with the trouble and any rate change it may cause. Should I offer them cash to be quiet? Free rent for 2 months? Nice improvements to the unit?
OR ... Should I threaten back very subtly that I can make things "less enjoyable" for them (and any ideas on that? Noise complaint warnings? No mercy with rent collection? Parking rules change?)?
Thanks!!
For one, I wouldn't offer them something. It could come off as an admission of guilt and also sets the precedent that you will give them free stuff if they do this again. If you do offer them something, it has to be contingent on them moving out and signing a liability release form. And I would only do that after talking to an attorney (which you should do anyways).
From what I understand, if the stairs are in decent shape and there is a hand rail, they really don't have much of a case and as you said, your insurance should cover it. Many tenants threaten a lot of things, but most won't go through with anything, especially when they don't have a case.
Lawyer to tenant " And sir , you fell down the stairs , correct ? , was this after 6 beers or was it nine beers ? I have been threatened 5 or 6 times with suits , non went anywhere.